Thinking about going to Canada? Information here

[canadiancitizen]

Hello Everyone.

My name is Jim Bunting, I live in Toronto. Canada.

I’m NOT a recruiter, or an agent for a driver hiring company

. Just a Canadian guy who wants to help UK drivers to find out about the job situation in Canada for HGV drivers.

I can help you with information from my own knowledge, or point you to information websites that have accurate and up to date facts about the Immigration process and the trucking industry in my country.

A bit about me. I’m 61, born in Toronto and now retired after having served 30 years in the Canadian Armed Forces from 1966 to 1996, when I retired at age 50. I was a Military Police investigator, and have been stationed in all 10 of the Canadian Provinces as well as postings in Germany, Belgium ( NATO HQ ) Cyprus and Bosnia. When I retired, I spent 6 years "on the road " in Canada and the USA , operating my own one ton Ford van as a "expeditor " doing emergency high value deliveries, under contract to Dynamex in Cambridge, Ontario, so I do have direct "hands on " North American experience in the trucking business.

Canada is the second largest country in the world, only Russia is bigger than Canada is. It encompasses six times zones, and is more than 5,000 MILES across, from the Atlantic to the Pacific oceans. BUT the population is only HALF that of the UK at 33 million people.

So what does that mean to a HGV driver? Lots of SPACE on the roads, with little if any congestion, once you leave the cities behind. A national highway system that was DESIGNED for rapid movement of vehicles, not one that evolved from cart/ wagon trails 500 years ago. Trucks that are designed for the open roads and have creature comforts that are rarely seen in Europe. Companies that treat their drivers as humans and pay them for their skills and their ability to think as well as simply drive.

Canada is the "new world " and one of the first things that UK vistors to my country remark on is " Every one is so friendly here ". " It"s so clean, no graffitti " and of course, "look at all the new homes and stores here " Canada has been a Immigrant destination for more than 300 years, and of course it was a British crown colony, until we obtained our independance in 1867. Our laws, social life and Government /Parliament are all based on British common law principles, BUT we have also forged our own way of doing things that is a mixture of the British past and some things borrowed from our neighbours in the USA, next door.

My own ancestors came to Canada in 1801, 206 years ago, from Northern Isreland. They were 3 brothers , and their wives and kids, 14 people in total, who were given free land grants in Canada. They had a very rough time of it and it took them about 8 years to get established, after cutting down 150 foot tall oak and elm tress to build their first cabins in the forest 60 miles to the northwest of what is now the city of Toronto. Those first 330 acres of land are now a part of our family farm operation, which is now over 800 acres in size, and has a dairy and beef cattle herd as well as apple and cherry orchards.

In the next ten years, Canada will need at least 50,000 HGV drivers to replace those that are now nearing retirement age. In addition, Canada is STILL growing at a amazing pace. With such a huge country, with such vast distances, we NEED drivers, of all kinds.

So, if you have ever thought about moving to Canada, but didn’t know where to go to get information, ASK me here. If I know, I’ll tell you what I know. If I don’t know the answer to your question, I’ll find out for you and put the answer here.

To start the ball rolling here is the main Government of Canada, Immigration information website, SAVE the website for future refference and READ it thru, to see what the requirements are to be accepted to come to Canada. As a HGV driver you would be applying under the "Skilled Worker " class

Remember that Canada has strict rules about who can enter the country and Immigration applicants have to score a minimum of 67 points on the pre test to be "considered for acceptance “. The main items are " Educational levels " “work experience /number of years worked,” and skill certficates and personal and business letters of refference” No persons with criminal convictions or bankruptcies will be considered , and you will need to be able to bring enough cash or credit , to support your self for a year in Canada.

cic.gc.ca/english/

Cheers Jim Bunting, Toronto

[sandman]

Jim, some good information on your post. I’m currently british army(21 years) due out next year. HGV class 1 for last ten years, my wife is a qualified nurse in the NHS. We are looking at emmigrating to Canada early 2009, I’ve been on a number of occasions with the army(camp crowfoot, alberta). Just a bit confused about something in your post, you say as an HGV driver you will go as a skilled worker, but that goes against all the advice i’ve been given, driving is not seen as a profession, so i would have to go with my wife as the skilled worker. Could you please confirm one way or the other.
Cheers Jim

[canadiancitizen]

Sandman:

Thanks for your post,

It is really a matter of the meaning of words, really.

The Canadian Immigration service looks at HGV drivers as having skill, but in your particular situation, I would say to put your wife, the nurse, as the Primary Applicant, and add yourself as the Secondary applicant. I say this because Canada has a large shortage of qualified and experienced nurses, especially those with special training such as OR or casualty nurses. Even general duty nurses are in demand now. Her training and certification will transfer to Canada with ease. She will have to sit a qualifying exam, but she will find the testing to be fair and reasonable.

Remember that both of you will have to get a minimum of 67 points on the immigration self test, to be able to qualify to be considered to come here. The test looks at formal education lelvels, combined with years of work history, as well as personal references, financial stability ( no bankruptcies ) and of course a clear criminal record. Most people who speak English as a first langauge will score more than 70 .

Here is a direct link to the Canadian Immigration self test website, so you can do the test yourselfves , to see how the two of you will score.

Go here :

cic.gc.ca/EnGLIsh/immigrate/ … /index.asp

Afterwards, come back and let me know how you did, or send me a PM thru this website. Good luck.

Jim B. Toronto. CWO 1 retrired.

[dieseldog6]

You haven;t got a clue what your talking about my friend, the 11 & 17 in nothern Ontario are probably the worst roads I have ever driven, the trucks they are at least 20 if not 30 years behind European ones, as for the treating of drivers and pay, well I’ve just been out for 17 days which included xmas, something I wanted to be home for and not even an apology, wages for this worked out at $88 per day or 44 pounds, needless to say the keys were handed back when i returned, The 2007 Peterbilt 379 I was driving was noisy breaking down twice and should have been pensioned off years ago, a pointless beast with no place in the moden world.

[dieseldog6]

You haven;t got a clue what your talking about my friend, the 11 & 17 in nothern Ontario are probably the worst roads I have ever driven, the trucks they are at least 20 if not 30 years behind European ones, as for the treating of drivers and pay, well I’ve just been out for 17 days which included xmas, something I wanted to be home for and not even an apology, wages for this worked out at $88 per day or 44 pounds, needless to say the keys were handed back when i returned, The 2007 Peterbilt 379 I was driving was noisy breaking down twice and should have been pensioned off years ago, a pointless beast with no place in the moden world.

[big_truck]

dieseldog6:
You haven;t got a clue what your talking about my friend, the 11 & 17 in nothern Ontario are probably the worst roads I have ever driven, the trucks they are at least 20 if not 30 years behind European ones, as for the treating of drivers and pay, well I’ve just been out for 17 days which included xmas, something I wanted to be home for and not even an apology, wages for this worked out at $88 per day or 44 pounds, needless to say the keys were handed back when i returned, The 2007 Peterbilt 379 I was driving was noisy breaking down twice and should have been pensioned off years ago, a pointless beast with no place in the moden world.

Dieseldog6,
Who do/did you drive for in Canada

[canadiancitizen]

Dieseldog6:

So , you didn’t KNOW the rate of pay, before you went out on the road, with this company ? Explain that .

By my calculations, you were being paid less than the minium wage, so what was the rate per mile, and how many MILES per day were you driving ? How many MILES in total did yuo drive in 17 days ? lHow many of those 17 days did you NOT drive any miles ? Your quote of 88 bucks a day …gross or net amount ?

The truck…a 2007 model, and it should have been "retired years ago " ■■? Huh ? That doesn’t make any sense, does it ?

In short, I think that you need to give a lot more info, about this experience.

Lastly, I said that the road system in Canada was designed to move traffic properly, with logical routes. Your comments about highway 11 and 17…in what way were they "the worst " ?

Jim B. Toronto.

[big_truck]

With all due respect Jim,
have you ever driven a 2007 European truck
A 2007 Peterbilt 379:
yes it has a nice big sleeper “pod” but it probably has the ride comfort, cab ergonomics(tiny windscreen to name but one),air suspension system,brake system, (drums I presume ) and worst of all the fuel use of a 1987 Euro truck
Never mind to point out that it has a turning circle close to a battleship and diesel fired cab night heaters have been a standard fit in Euro trucks for a generation

[casey]

Big Truck:
With all due respect Jim,
have you ever driven a 2007 European truck
Never mind to point out that it has a turning circle close to a battleship and diesel fired cab night heaters have been a standard fit in Euro trucks for a generation

I havent driven a european truck, but I have driven a Volvo with setback front axles and yes they do turn shorter than a set forward axle truck, but that is due to wheelbase more than anything else. I also drive a 2007 379 from time to time and all I can say is that 2007s turn way better than a 1987 model did. Diesel fired cab and engine heaters have been around Canada for more than generation. I have one truck that was bought in 1997 with a cab and engine heater installed at the factory and this heater model was not the first one that they offered.
All you have to do is read Bigtruck`s personal info , he lists his occupation as “professional bluffer” . I doubt that Bigtruck has driven either a 2007 Peterbilt 379 or a 2007 european truck.

Just my opinion.

[vastly_exp]

dieseldog6:
You haven;t got a clue what your talking about my friend, the 11 & 17 in nothern Ontario are probably the worst roads I have ever driven, the trucks they are at least 20 if not 30 years behind European ones, as for the treating of drivers and pay, well I’ve just been out for 17 days which included xmas, something I wanted to be home for and not even an apology, wages for this worked out at $88 per day or 44 pounds, needless to say the keys were handed back when i returned, The 2007 Peterbilt 379 I was driving was noisy breaking down twice and should have been pensioned off years ago, a pointless beast with no place in the moden world.

the 11 & 17 are nice roads to drive on cannot see your problem here mate.
20 or 30 years technology dont be daft(now your talking out of your a**e.)the european trucks are way over loaded with technology,i wonder how long you have been driving■■?.
these trucks here have enough technology to keep any driver happy.

wages,well they are a joke in canada,there is no other way of putting that.

[big_truck]

Casey:

Big Truck:
With all due respect Jim,
have you ever driven a 2007 European truck
Never mind to point out that it has a turning circle close to a battleship and diesel fired cab night heaters have been a standard fit in Euro trucks for a generation

I havent driven a european truck, but I have driven a Volvo with setback front axles and yes they do turn shorter than a set forward axle truck, but that is due to wheelbase more than anything else. I also drive a 2007 379 from time to time and all I can say is that 2007s turn way better than a 1987 model did. Diesel fired cab and engine heaters have been around Canada for more than generation. I have one truck that was bought in 1997 with a cab and engine heater installed at the factory and this heater model was not the first one that they offered.
All you have to do is read Bigtruck`s personal info , he lists his occupation as “professional bluffer” . I doubt that Bigtruck has driven either a 2007 Peterbilt 379 or a 2007 european truck.

Just my opinion.

“Professional bluffer” was my attempt at “SATIRE” look it up because I know Canadians/Americans don’t know what it means
I confess:
I haven’t had the pleasure of driving a 2007 Peterbilt 379 but I’ve driven a 2002 KW T2000 and a 2001 Peterbilt 359 amongst others and one of those I think is very similar to a 379 and they are crap
Do any 2007 Canadian trucks/trailers have standard disc brakes fitted
Do any of the 2007 trucks have standard adjustable air suspension for lifting/dropping the bogie when hooking up trailers
Is it easy to back up with a 2007 Canadian truck since they are so easy to see out off and have great mirrors
You had a 1997 truck that had a night heater fitted at the factory,bloody hell that’s just amazing
If “night heaters” are fitted as frequently as you say how come H+R have to fit Tri-paks to their Freightliners

[casey]

[quotequote]

“Professional bluffer” was my attempt at “SATIRE” look it up because I know Canadians/Americans don’t know what it means :!:

In Canada it means Bull ■■■■ artist.

I confess:
I haven’t had the pleasure of driving a 2007 Peterbilt 379 but I’ve driven a 2002 KW T2000 and a 2001 Peterbilt 359 amongst others and one of those I think is very similar to a 379 and they are crap

You think!! anyone who had driven either would know which one is closest to a 379!!

Do any 2007 Canadian trucks/trailers have standard disc brakes fitted :?

No not standard and I don`t know if all the manufacturers have it as an option but some do.

Do any of the 2007 trucks have standard adjustable air suspension for lifting/dropping the bogie when hooking up trailers

Almost any truck with air-ride suspension would have that on it, not just 2007`s.

Is it easy to back up with a 2007 Canadian truck since they are so easy to see out off and have great mirrors

My trucks have six mirriors on them, two rectangular mirrors with two round convex on them as well as 2 mirrors mounted on the hood, all with heating elements so they stay clear in winter and as well in rain and fog.The 2009 that I am specing out has TV cameras as an option.

You had a 1997 truck that had a night heater fitted at the factory,bloody hell that’s just amazing I

sorry to burst your bubble, but engine and cab heaters have been around as factory option for longer than that. 1982 Peterbilt that a leased operator ordered came with a cab and engine heater from the factory .

if “night heaters” are fitted as frequently as you say how come H+R have to fit Tri-paks to their Freightliners
[/quote]

I dont know, maybe Tri-paks are not available as an option from Freightliner and have to be fitted after market? Why dont you google APUS and see whats available for yourself??

If it needs stars Casey, it’s not allowed. Try typing the word in full first then hit the ‘preview’ button. That will tell you how the Auto Censor’s mind works. D.

[vastly_exp]

there are several makers of tripacs,h&r use the thermoking tripac,they are fitted after sales but before they go into service.

the main reason for fitting tripacs is to cut down on fuel ie (idling).
what a tripac does ■■?
1,it charges the batteries.
2,it runs its own air conditioning.
3,it keeps the block warm.

it also supplies 110volt electric through an inducer constantly,so one can do the ironing whilst using the hair drier watching the telly have the fridge on while the coffee machine is brewing the coffee to drink when your tv dinner is hot out of the microwave amongst other things.
a tripac costs about $12000.00.

what a lot of fellas do for a fridge is they buy a house hold fridge at walmarts or the likes,plug it in the inducer,a fridge for a truck costs $900.00, a 110 volt fridge from walmarts cost about$80.00

[big_truck]

For the info of Casey:
All new class 8 Euro trucks have disc brakes fitted as standard along with “mostly” some sort of secondary braking system weither it be a Jake,VEB,Intarder,Opti-brake,retarder etc and fitted with a diesel fired cab night heater.
How come the websites of Kenworth/Peterbilt/Freightliner mention nothing about “standard fit” cab night heaters
If Canadian trucks have ajustable air sus as standard how come I read on guy’s blogs complaining that they can’t raise/lower the bogie on their truck when a trailer has been unhooked too low/high and they then have to revert to the dolly handle
How many N.American trucks on the road at the moment can you touch the passenger window without getting up off the drivers seat

KW T2000 same as Peterbilt 387 both are plastic aero CRAP
Peterbilt 359 same as Peterbilt 379 both are “traditional” CRAP
I know because I’ve driven the noisey,draughty,unreliable,unergonomic,agricultural gearbox,heavy,hard on fuel,no forward/rearward vision pieces of CRAP
But they do look good and have a nice big sleeper because that is your HOME:!:

BTW,
why do you think it is that NONE of the new 2007/2008 Euro trucks have a CAT/■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ Diesel fitted
I was also driving a mates 2008 6x2 Volvo FH 480 with I shift box yesterday,this truck would run rings round all the N.American competition literally

[casey]

Big Truck:
All new class 8 Euro trucks have disc brakes fitted as standard along with “mostly” some sort of secondary braking system weither it be a Jake,VEB,Intarder,Opti-brake,retarder etc and fitted with a diesel fired cab night heater.

Disc brakes are not standard here because the customers dont demand them to be standard.. What kind of GVW s are we talking about stopping with disc brakes? Most truck engines have a secondary brake or engine brake on them. They can be a Jake brake .Pac brake, Dynotard ,Stealth brake which is a Jake Brake and an ehaust brake combined. I had a truck with a Cat engine that had a Jake brake and a hydraulic retarder on it.
I think you are confused about engine and cab heaters and APU`s. Check the Kenworth web site and the Freightliner web site, both manufacturers are offering a batterry based heat ,A/C and power option on some models.

How come the websites of Kenworth/Peterbilt/Freightliner mention nothing about “standard fit” cab night heaters [/color

]
I dont know what you mean by standard fit heaters? Most heaters are made by heater manufacturers that are different from the companies that make the trucks,thats why you can put an espar , webasto, Proheat heater. on any make or model truck…They are offered as an option when you spec it out, same as brand of tires or brand of wheel seals, and you don`t see them talking about tires and wheel seals on their websites either. Just order a new truck sometime Bigtruck and you will see how its done.

If Canadian trucks have ajustable air sus as standard how come I read on guy’s blogs complaining that they can’t raise/lower the bogie on their truck when a trailer has been unhooked too low/high and they then have to revert to the dolly handle

I don`t know, maybe he had a spring suspension or maybe he never figured out what the switch was for.

How many N.American trucks on the road at the moment can you touch the passenger window without getting up off the drivers seat

How long are your arms??
I gather you have never been in a 387 Peterbilt, T2000 KW or any International trucks.

KW T2000 same as Peterbilt 387 both are plastic aero CRAP :!:

Dont know about the T2000 but the 387 is a nice quiet truck to drive and its got excellant visibility, handling , aero-dynamics. Its comfortable, its an all round nice truck to drive. And yes I have driven many thousands of miles in 387s so I know what I`m talking about.

Peterbilt 359 same as Peterbilt 379 both are “traditional” CRAP :!:

To each his own, some like the styling ,some don`t, So what??

I know because I’ve driven the noisey,draughty,unreliable,unergonomic,agricultural gearbox,heavy,hard on fuel,no forward/rearward vision pieces of CRAP

You may have driven the usual old retired highway truck that they usually use for hauling from a combine in a field, but you have never driven the new 379`s and 387s that you are calling down here.

But they do look good and have a nice big sleeper because that is your HOME:!:

Sorry ,its not my home, its my sleeper berth for resting on the road while I am away from home. Only migrant farm workers and circus employees would call it a home.

BTW,
why do you think it is that NONE of the new 2007/2008 Euro trucks have a CAT/■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ Diesel fitted

Dont need all that power for your smaller G V W S ■■

I 2008 6x2 Volvo FH 480 with I shift box yesterday,this truck would run rings round all the N.American competition literally

I doubt it, but you just keep living the dream there BT

[big_truck]

Your the one living in a dream
Our “standard” UK GVW is 44 metric tonnes (96600lbs) yours is what 80’000lbs isn’t it
Most UK 2007/2008 trucks will be specced with 480/500hp+ engines just a little bit higher than your usual spec.
We shouldn’t really be talking about HP more like torque figures whereby Euro trucks have their N.American cousins beaten hands down
You where trying to splutter something about no Cat/■■■■■■■■■■ in Europe because we didn’t need the power,why then can I easily get “off the peg” a 16litre V8 engined Mercedes/Scania or MAN truck
Can you spec a V8 engine

Your “modern” pushbutton auto gearboxes take half a lifetime to change gear and some you even have to push a button to go to neutral before pressing another button to go into reverse
Face it,
very few UK guy’s who are over there now driving OTR would say that they prefer N.American trucks (apart from their “sleeperpod” homes) the fact is they are ancient junk,you aren’t qualified to comment because you’ve never even sat in a Euro truck never mind driven one

You keep “blabbing on” about trucks that custom harvesters have,do you think the following run “retired highway trucks” :
www.frederickharvesting.com
www.taylorharvesting.com
www.demarayharvesting.com
www.hollandharvesting.com
Of course they only run on FARM PLATES too according to your expert advice

[casey]

Big Truck:
Your the one living in a dream
Our “standard” UK GVW is 44 metric tonnes (96600lbs) yours is what 80’000lbs isn’t it
Most UK 2007/2008 trucks will be specced with 480/500hp+ engines just a little bit higher than your usual spec.
Your “modern” pushbutton auto gearboxes take half a lifetime to change gear and some you even have to push a button to go to neutral before pressing another button to go into reverse
Face it,
very few UK guy’s who are over there now driving OTR would say that they prefer N.American trucks (apart from their “sleeperpod” homes) the fact is they are ancient junk,you aren’t qualified to comment because you’ve never even sat in a Euro truck never mind driven one

You keep “blabbing on” about trucks that custom harvesters have,do you think the following run “retired highway trucks” :
www.frederickharvesting.com
www.taylorharvesting.com
www.demarayharvesting.com
www.hollandharvesting.com
Of course they only run on FARM PLATES too according to your expert advice

All this from someone who lists his occupation as "professional bluffer’ AKA “■■■■■■■■ ARTIST”.

I walk the walk ,you cant even talk the talk.. Keep googling for some more things to post as your own deeds, you are very entertaining once you get wound up.. As for whos is bigger, you are the only one worried enough to call yourself “BIG”.
You have no idea what I or any one else specs so your "usual specs " mean nothing. Push button transmissions: I prefer 13 speed myself. Its true I have never driven a european truck and it wont bother me if I never do. Im quite happy with the North American trucks. I would like to try an Australian version of a NA truck with RH drive . Would be bit of fun, but those European trucks dont look very appealling at all.

Surely all these UK guys you refer to must have known they would not be taking their European truck with them when they came to Canada??
No I don`t think that all those custom combiners run retired highway trucks. But I bet thats all anybody dared to let you drive.

I don`t care if you ever change your " I hate everything about Canadian trucking " stance or not.
You and your posts are nothing more than entertainment.
Keep living the dream there BT

And I think we are far enough of the original topic , so fire your last shot There BT and we`ll let someone else have chance to post something.

Same again with the stars Casey D.

Sorry Spardo, I missed that about the stars, ill use BTs word for it next time.

[spardo]

Sorry BT, but do you think that maybe Casey has a point?

Casey:
You may have driven the usual old retired highway truck that they usually use for hauling from a combine in a field, but you have never driven the new 379`s and 387s that you are calling down here.

If you haven’t driven the newer stuff it hardly makes sense to be so condemning.
Mind you the same goes for Casey not having driven a Euro truck.
Each to his own, it seems to me.

[casey]

Spardo:
Sorry BT, but do you think that maybe Casey has a point?

Casey:
You may have driven the usual old retired highway truck that they usually use for hauling from a combine in a field, but you have never driven the new 379`s and 387s that you are calling down here.

If you haven’t driven the newer stuff it hardly makes sense to be so condemning.
Mind you the same goes for Casey not having driven a Euro truck.
Each to his own, it seems to me.

Sorry,didnt mean to sound as if I was condemning euro trucks. My point was that Im quite happy with the NA trucks . It`s getting hard to really find a major difference between Euro and NA trucks anyway. Most are owned by companies that sell trucks in both places: Volvo owns Mack, Daimler owns Freightliner,Western Star and Sterling. Paccar, which owns Peterbilt and Kenworth, are part of some company from Europe, not sure which. And so it goes. Most of these trucks are now built on and with what the Manufactures refer to as Global chassis and components… Most of the interchanges seem to be for the good.

[rob_k]

Casey:

Big Truck:
Your the one living in a dream
Our “standard” UK GVW is 44 metric tonnes (96600lbs) yours is what 80’000lbs isn’t it
Most UK 2007/2008 trucks will be specced with 480/500hp+ engines just a little bit higher than your usual spec.
Your “modern” pushbutton auto gearboxes take half a lifetime to change gear and some you even have to push a button to go to neutral before pressing another button to go into reverse
Face it,
very few UK guy’s who are over there now driving OTR would say that they prefer N.American trucks (apart from their “sleeperpod” homes) the fact is they are ancient junk,you aren’t qualified to comment because you’ve never even sat in a Euro truck never mind driven one

You keep “blabbing on” about trucks that custom harvesters have,do you think the following run “retired highway trucks” :
www.frederickharvesting.com
www.taylorharvesting.com
www.demarayharvesting.com
www.hollandharvesting.com
Of course they only run on FARM PLATES too according to your expert advice

All this from someone who lists his occupation as "professional bluffer’ AKA “[zb] ARTIST”.

I walk the walk ,you cant even talk the talk.. Keep googling for some more things to post as your own deeds, you are very entertaining once you get wound up.. As for whos is bigger, you are the only one worried enough to call yourself “BIG”.
You have no idea what I or any one else specs so your "usual specs " mean nothing. Push button transmissions: I prefer 13 speed myself. Its true I have never driven a european truck and it wont bother me if I never do. Im quite happy with the North American trucks. I would like to try an Australian version of a NA truck with RH drive . Would be bit of fun, but those European trucks dont look very appealling at all.

Surely all these UK guys you refer to must have known they would not be taking their European truck with them when they came to Canada??
No I don`t think that all those custom combiners run retired highway trucks. But I bet thats all anybody dared to let you drive.

I don`t care if you ever change your " I hate everything about Canadian trucking " stance or not.
You and your posts are nothing more than entertainment.
Keep living the dream there BT

And I think we are far enough of the original topic , so fire your last shot There BT and we`ll let someone else have chance to post something.

Same again with the stars Casey D.