Notimetoulouse:
Harry Monk:
LHVs= fewer drivers required to move the same amount of freight = lower wages.Or the imformouse Denby B- double … ie two of these equals three regular trucks and puts one driver out of work while the saving is trousered
I’m guessing you stick to your principles by refusing to drive anything except a 4 wheeler to protect jobs and earn more. 
Isn’t it funny, those with a vested interest or motive in there not being a driver shortage are claiming there is one, and we are all here hoping it was true!
When rates climb 20-25% I’ll believe it! 
After all, has anyone felt that their employer is doing anything to ensure they hold on to their drivers, or do you all feel like the attitude is: If you don’t like it, you know where the door is!
The scaremongering by interested parties continues… 
The reality is that far from there being a driver shortage, there is a driver surplus, which is why wages have stagnated for the last ten years. This has been caused by an influx of eastern European drivers, and post-Brexit the haulage industry is concerned that this pool of cheap labour will dry up and wages will have to increase. Obviously they will do anything to prevent this happening, including this nonsensical “driver shortage” scaremongering.
Harry Monk:
The reality is that far from there being a driver shortage, there is a driver surplus, which is why wages have stagnated for the last ten years. This has been caused by an influx of eastern European drivers, and post-Brexit the haulage industry is concerned that this pool of cheap labour will dry up and wages will have to increase. Obviously they will do anything to prevent this happening, including this nonsensical “driver shortage” scaremongering.
Prior to the Working Time Directive and Drivers CPC coming into effect there were the normal shouts of “Driver Shortage” and on both occasions there was no obvious problem.
As far as I am aware in the past fifty years there has never been a problem. That is why employers have always had the attitude of “there’ll be another driver along to replace anyone that doesn’t like working here”. The bus industry operates the same policy.
Why everyone thinks that EE will work truck driving for peanuts? I know few drivers, myself included who will not drive for this wage. Why drive lorry when you can work 8-10hrs shifts for 9p/h in a warehouse and be home. I don’t understand this talk about cheap EE drivers, I dont believe there is so many EE cheap drivers, the same way I dont believe there is driver shortage. It might be one when in 5-10 years time the older generation retire and the cost of licences is driving people away.
Oh yeah the EE drivers in UK I know make around/over 30K, so no no cheap labor there.
Carryfast:
Notimetoulouse:
Harry Monk:
LHVs= fewer drivers required to move the same amount of freight = lower wages.Or the imformouse Denby B- double … ie two of these equals three regular trucks and puts one driver out of work while the saving is trousered
I’m guessing you stick to your principles by refusing to drive anything except a 4 wheeler to protect jobs and earn more.
quite happy (ish ) driving artics thanks
very rarly do class2 as i knackered my shoulder doing shop deliveries a few years ago
My truck has been off the road for a week, so I called my main customer to see if he had any driving work he wanted me to help out with in the meantime.
£8.50 p/h, this for Class 2 26 tonner work.
I politely declined and decided to crack on with a weeks worth of procrastination. I was paid £10 p/h for haring about in a 14 tonner last year!
el_presidente:
My truck has been off the road for a week
Mercedes Arocs?
Sorry I’m being silly, they’re off road a lot longer. 
Dolph:
Why everyone thinks that EE will work truck driving for peanuts? I know few drivers, myself included who will not drive for this wage. Why drive lorry when you can work 8-10hrs shifts for 9p/h in a warehouse and be home. I don’t understand this talk about cheap EE drivers, I dont believe there is so many EE cheap drivers, the same way I dont believe there is driver shortage. It might be one when in 5-10 years time the older generation retire and the cost of licences is driving people away.
Oh yeah the EE drivers in UK I know make around/over 30K, so no no cheap labor there.
I think only one person has mentions cheap EE labour, but having loads of extra drivers coming to the UK has kept a lid on wages, Supply and Demand and all that.
As for £30kpa even if they’re not including night out money that is achievable on not much more than the minimum wage with the hours drivers are expected to work.
muckles:
Dolph:
Why everyone thinks that EE will work truck driving for peanuts? I know few drivers, myself included who will not drive for this wage. Why drive lorry when you can work 8-10hrs shifts for 9p/h in a warehouse and be home. I don’t understand this talk about cheap EE drivers, I dont believe there is so many EE cheap drivers, the same way I dont believe there is driver shortage. It might be one when in 5-10 years time the older generation retire and the cost of licences is driving people away.
Oh yeah the EE drivers in UK I know make around/over 30K, so no no cheap labor there.I think only one person has mentions cheap EE labour, but having loads of extra drivers coming to the UK has kept a lid on wages, Supply and Demand and all that.
As for £30kpa even if they’re not including night out money that is achievable on not much more than the minimum wage with the hours drivers are expected to work.
To be fair, £30k is peanuts if you’re doing more than 40 hours a week. As said, the influx of supply has stifled the pay for demand. The cost of living, the over supply, and the nmw raising for big cleaners and shelf stackers all combined is the reason it’s peanuts. The ee drivers think it’s fantastic, but indigenous drivers trying to support a family may have a very different idea
Harry Monk:
The reality is that far from there being a driver shortage, there is a driver surplus, which is why wages have stagnated for the last ten years. This has been caused by an influx of eastern European drivers, and post-Brexit the haulage industry is concerned that this pool of cheap labour will dry up and wages will have to increase. Obviously they will do anything to prevent this happening, including this nonsensical “driver shortage” scaremongering.
The industry have known there will be a problem with lack of recruitment and retention of drivers for many years, we had a similar scaremongering around 2003-2004, the industry were trying things to attract drivers, like in house training, even pay rises, while media stories were being run with plans to get more women into the industry because apparently the flexible working hours would suit them 
,
Of course all this seemed to be forgotten the moment they got an influx of East European labour and then a recession, loads of bums on seats happy days.
So any shortage that might happen is the industries own fault for sticking their heads in the sand, failing to make the changes to attract and retain drivers, by making the job more acceptable in a 21st century.
muckles:
Harry Monk:
The reality is that far from there being a driver shortage, there is a driver surplus, which is why wages have stagnated for the last ten years. This has been caused by an influx of eastern European drivers, and post-Brexit the haulage industry is concerned that this pool of cheap labour will dry up and wages will have to increase. Obviously they will do anything to prevent this happening, including this nonsensical “driver shortage” scaremongering.The industry have known there will be a problem with lack of recruitment and retention of drivers for many years, we had a similar scaremongering around 2003-2004, the industry were trying things to attract drivers, like in house training, even pay rises, while media stories were being run with plans to get more women into the industry because apparently the flexible working hours would suit them
Of course all this seemed to be forgotten the moment they got an influx of East European labour and then a recession, loads of bums on seats happy days.
So any shortage that might happen is the industries own fault for sticking their heads in the sand, failing to make the changes to attract and retain drivers, by making the job more acceptable in a 21st century.
How many companies are interested in in-house training, very few. They expect people to spend their money training for a career in the industry and then treat them like dirt until they move on to another operator and then another and so on until they get fed up and leave the industry or retire.
They don’t seem to realise that if they get a good group of reliable drivers then everyone will prosper.
I don’t see why anyone would want to be paid on a day rate as opposed to hourly. When I was on day rate tipper work I’d start early with the intention of going home early. It didn’t go down well that I wouldn’t do anymore after 10 hours work even if “I had time to do one more load.”
Fincham:
muckles:
Harry Monk:
The reality is that far from there being a driver shortage, there is a driver surplus, which is why wages have stagnated for the last ten years. This has been caused by an influx of eastern European drivers, and post-Brexit the haulage industry is concerned that this pool of cheap labour will dry up and wages will have to increase. Obviously they will do anything to prevent this happening, including this nonsensical “driver shortage” scaremongering.The industry have known there will be a problem with lack of recruitment and retention of drivers for many years, we had a similar scaremongering around 2003-2004, the industry were trying things to attract drivers, like in house training, even pay rises, while media stories were being run with plans to get more women into the industry because apparently the flexible working hours would suit them
Of course all this seemed to be forgotten the moment they got an influx of East European labour and then a recession, loads of bums on seats happy days.
So any shortage that might happen is the industries own fault for sticking their heads in the sand, failing to make the changes to attract and retain drivers, by making the job more acceptable in a 21st century.How many companies are interested in in-house training, very few. They expect people to spend their money training for a career in the industry and then treat them like dirt until they move on to another operator and then another and so on until they get fed up and leave the industry or retire.
They don’t seem to realise that if they get a good group of reliable drivers then everyone will prosper.
back in 2003 - 2004 the industry was shouting about a drivers shortage, some companies started taking warehouse staff and were training them to get their hgv’s, but once we had an influx of East European labour it stopped they didn’t need to spend the money as they had a fresh pool of drivers to draw on.
It was typical of the shortsightedness of the Industry, who know they had an aging workforce, but hoped that the drivers would keep coming from somewhere else and now those drivers are moving on and more drivers leave the industry as they either retire or find other work they are worried, but instead of stepping up and improving pay and conditions they are using their trade bodies to run media campaigns and grovelling to government expecting them to pay for their failure in making the industry attractive to a new generation.
Dolph:
Why everyone thinks that EE will work truck driving for peanuts?
Nobody said that. What has happened is that the influx of eastern European drivers since 2004 has meant that there has been no need to raise wages since then and so, as they have not kept up with inflation, they have fallen in real terms by 30% since then.
Dolph:
Why everyone thinks that EE will work truck driving for peanuts? I know few drivers, myself included who will not drive for this wage. Why drive lorry when you can work 8-10hrs shifts for 9p/h in a warehouse and be home. I don’t understand this talk about cheap EE drivers, I dont believe there is so many EE cheap drivers, the same way I dont believe there is driver shortage. It might be one when in 5-10 years time the older generation retire and the cost of licences is driving people away.
Oh yeah the EE drivers in UK I know make around/over 30K, so no no cheap labor there.
Firstly have you thought that many ‘drivers’ would prefer a 12 hour shift driving than what ‘seems’ like a lot longer than that working 8 hours in a factory/warehouse/office etc etc.The problem then is when the employers flood the labour market with immigrant labour which distorts the labour market.In which case even that 30k isn’t great if it’s based on maxing out the hours regs when calculated as an hourly rate such as examples of £8 per hour in the South East which is peanuts here v the cost of living.
The obvious answer as I said being cutting industry specific over taxation in the form of road fuel tax,increasing productivety in the form of LHV’s,and closing the door to the immigrant labour supply.IE a productive cost efficient industry without the race to the bottom wage structure and one which applies Brit jobs for Brit workers.
As for East Euros not being a cheap labour force with low wage expectations why is it we see loads of East Euro transport operations and immigrant labour but not West Euro.IE the roads of western Europe aren’t exactly flooded with West Euro trucks driven by West Euro labour nor are we seeing German,Swiss,Swedish or French drivers all coming here to work.Unlike East Euro trucks and labour.IE who are you trying to fool.
Carryfast:
The obvious answer as I said being cutting industry specific over taxation in the form of road fuel tax,increasing productivety in the form of LHV’s,and closing the door to the immigrant labour supply.IE a productive cost efficient industry without the race to the bottom wage structure and one which applies Brit jobs for Brit workers.
How are you planning to stop a race to the bottom wage structure using, LHV’s on cheap tax free fuel, when all the evidence from haulage is if the input costs are reduced the rates are reduced as opposed to the wages going up.
muckles:
How are you planning to stop a race to the bottom wage structure using, LHV’s on cheap tax free fuel, when all the evidence from haulage is if the input costs are reduced the rates are reduced as opposed to the wages going up.
Unfortunately, LHVs and tax-free fuel are two of Carryfast’s hobby horses and nothing will get him to understand that neither would result in anything other than a further reduction in rates.
muckles:
Carryfast:
The obvious answer as I said being cutting industry specific over taxation in the form of road fuel tax,increasing productivety in the form of LHV’s,and closing the door to the immigrant labour supply.IE a productive cost efficient industry without the race to the bottom wage structure and one which applies Brit jobs for Brit workers.How are you planning to stop a race to the bottom wage structure using, LHV’s on cheap tax free fuel, when all the evidence from haulage is if the input costs are reduced the rates are reduced as opposed to the wages going up.
I think all the evidence points to better wages in real terms after the move from 32t to 38t within even the relatively lower fuel cost environment of that time,let alone allowing the use of red diesel.Also bearing in mind that was before the East Euro invasion and a decade in large part ravaged by just about the worst recession since the 1930’s. 
IE I’d stand by the idea of a massive increase in productivety combined with a massive reduction in the unfair tax burden on the industry and a controlled labour market in the form of Brit jobs for Brit workers,being the key to a game changer in the wage regime.
Harry Monk:
muckles:
How are you planning to stop a race to the bottom wage structure using, LHV’s on cheap tax free fuel, when all the evidence from haulage is if the input costs are reduced the rates are reduced as opposed to the wages going up.Unfortunately, LHVs and tax-free fuel are two of Carryfast’s hobby horses and nothing will get him to understand that neither would result in anything other than a further reduction in rates.
So are you saying driver’s wages were better in real terms in 1988 v either 1978 or now.Or not ?.