The TruckNet UK Draft WTD translation

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

Lucy,

A bit late into this but I didn’t think it affected me till now, so I’ve only just read it.

I think you have done a sterling job and marshalled your thoughts in a logical and reasoned manner so much so that I’m sure at one reading that I understand it all :slight_smile: .

Recently something happened with one of our members which prompted me because of experiencing certain ‘withdrawal symptoms’ (diesel in blood not being satisfied) to offer myself as an occasional driver to relieve a situation involving continuous Euro trips. Bearing in mind where I live this could only involve England-Spain. My proposal was to work 1 week in 3 or 4. Due to other arrangements already having been made this idea came to nothing in this instance.

As many Euro trips involve long hours, let’s assume a regular driver works 60 hours pw. That means that after 4 weeks he has done 240 hours, or 68 over the average. I realise that this can be averaged over 26 weeks not 4 but if 60pw is the norm then it is in the employer’s interest to keep on top of the ‘reclaimed’ hours on a more regular basis. If this were the case then, this employer may be looking to ‘rest’ (unpaid or in addition to annual leave) his regular driver for 1 week and 1 day at the end of this period.

You can see where I’m leading with this - me, every 4 weeks :slight_smile: .

Whether or not this idea would have any appeal I don’t know, but what, I wonder, are your thoughts on the validity of my reasoning? Perhaps I haven’t understood after all, no doubt you will tell me :frowning: .

You may think that this post is more appropriate as a pm, but I thought that it deserved an airing for those to whom it may not have occurred.

If you agree that I haven’t got the wrong end of the stick, I might float the idea in the Situations forum, just in case.

Finally, if you are wondering why I don’t just go up Manpower and re-register it’s because I don’t want to be pestered every week for local work but prefer something I can get my teeth into - but not too often :wink:

BTW we are coming over late September (another £38 double round trip special), may give you a call if we come up north again.

Best to you three from us two,

Salut, David

2

Is the translation still available somewhere, the link and URL dont work?thanks.
Phil

ooops, just found it in the FAQ section
Thanks
Phil

3

I just finished a job wich was 12 hour shifts with only about 9 to 10 hours work. so the tacho goes on POA for the balance when I parked up in a layby.
So I am right in thinking that this will also count as my 45 minute break, without putting tacho on break. i.e. can I go for a walk or have a kip without having to come back or wake up to put tacho on break or vice a versa.
I know it’s a bit petty :blush: but I like to take camera with me and see if Ican get any decent photos while I’m doing nothing :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

4

No, no, and no. Breaks must still be shown.

Is there any reason why you couldn’t show the whole lot as a break? After all, a POA, to be counted, requires certain conditions, i.e. known likelyhood of duration, etc, whereas a Break doesn’t.

The fact that you have stated that you are at liberty to freely wander off, infers a Break, rather than a POA, and remember, if you have no more than two Breaks of not less than one hour, they become Rest Periods, and providing they total 4 hours or more, then only a further Rest Period of 8 hours need be taken before again commencing work.

The oprion of a 16 hour day, in the Winter, or when traffic conditions are bad, can mean the difference in sleeping in the cab or sleeping in own’s own bed.

5

Thank s Krankee
That is what I thought and is the way I did it and may be doing it again soon. Strange job as I don’t get paid for breaks but get paid for 12 hours no matter how long it takes but I can’t knock off , so just park up some where and chill out for a while. Always get the job done first (as it has taken twelve and a half hours) so I know how long my break is going to be so it goes on POA . As It’s a five day week I need to have at least eight hours POA to keep with in the law. Well those who do the job permantly do and I’ve got to work as they do.

6

I want to print a copy of the Truckers Guide WTD, but when I click on the link it says I’m not authorised to read this forum. Any help would be appreciated. :smiley:

7

MikeDBristol:
I want to print a copy of the Truckers Guide WTD, but when I click on the link it says I’m not authorised to read this forum. Any help would be appreciated. :smiley:

I can see the problem.

Let me get back to you.

8

Krankee:

MikeDBristol:
I want to print a copy of the Truckers Guide WTD, but when I click on the link it says I’m not authorised to read this forum. Any help would be appreciated. :smiley:

I can see the problem.

Let me get back to you.

The RT(WTD)R information was updated November 2008 - WTD (Working Time Directive) November 2008

9

Lucy:
At last we have it.

Exactly 3 months and 23 days before this potentially lifestyle-changing piece of legislation is due to come into effect, our dear friends at the Department for Transport have finally decided to let us in on their big secret and tell us exactly what it is we’re going to have to comply with.

“Marvellous!” I hear you all cry. Well…maybe not…in fact, once you have had a good look at this eagerly awaited document, definitely not. Because unless Eurobabble is your second language and you like your information to be delivered in the form of a Mensa-style verbal reasoning challenge, the average “Mobile Worker” has not the slightest chance of understanding it. Now there’s a shock.

Fortunately for you, however, several weeks off work with a bad back has meant that I’ve now fully exhausted this Draft’s potential as a daytime sleep-aid, and been forced by sheer boredom to actually try and make sense of it. The result is here for your delectation and amusement - trust me, some of this stuff is vague enough that it is in fact funny, although whether I was actually giggling out of hysteria I’m not 100% sure. But enough about me…may I present:

[u]The Trucker’s Guide to “Shorter” Hours Or “That‘s Another Fine Mess You Got Me In To.”[/u]

10

Open to abuse. So really wide open that it isn’t funny. I personally wanted the WTD to be a 48 hr week cap, not averaged over 17 weeks and to be duty time, not duty time less any time you’re not moving.

Nothing changed apart from a max 60 hr week IMO and even then, thats onyl of you don’t stop for anything other than tacho breaks.

11

first of thanks for the translation…

Question… Covers EU Tacho Rules, but what about domestic rules?

12

UK Domestic Rules driving is not included BUT

If you occasionally do EU Rules driving and the number of days in a Reference Period reaches 11 (or 16) then the WTD will need to be complied with.

13

Yeah, like others have said, absolutely jack all changes. There are so many “if’ss, but’ss and other than’s” it’s hard to believe.

I find the whole thing extremely complicated and confusing, even in the “idiot guide” format. I’ve read over it twice now and every individual “rule” seems to have a dozen exceptions to it which simply adds to the confusion, not aids it.

As far as enforcement goes, the only drivers these rules apply to are employed drivers. Foreign drivers and agency drivers don’t have anything to worry about because a) the VOSA always wave foreign registered past because they can’t be arsed with the red tape and b) agency drivers just tell each of the two agencies they’re working for that they are their only employer and don’t tell either of them about the other. Therefore, agency drivers can still work round the clock 24/7. :bulb:

Same old [ZB] then, just a different day.

14

Thanks for the interpretation Lucy, I can appreciate all the work you put into that document.

I’m just pleased it doesn’t effect me. (Owner driver who is 65yrs old in 4 yrs time.)

Not a bad result.

15

i really must congratulate Lucy for all her effort in translating this huge but non effective document…it doesnt really change much except to say that owner drivers are exempt for the next 4 years…good news…but as an ex owner driver i cannot see the difference between the two in regards to employed and owner driver where the rules are concerned…we are all human…all drivers…its only the name on the door or lack of one that differentiate…and of course the o/d has to pay all the bills and chase unscrupulous payers…and maybe a bit of maintenance…and we all thought that the life of the trucker was going to change for the good…wrong !!..while everyone else sits back at the thought of a nice n easy 48 hour week…the good old trucker can work 60 hours…night time is reduced to 10 hours…not much change there then…like what was said…same rules with a few ifs and buts thrown in…so the haulage industry will not change much for the better…i would have liked to see across the board 48 hours a week…8 hour night work…and force the hauliers to put the rates up and give everyone a decent standard of living and a stress free life…but thanks to “The Suits”…this wont happen…and thank god there isnt much time left for me in this industry…and lets not forget that the driver shortage can only get worse…roll on xmas…
have a nice day

16

Lucy you know that beer you owe me well after reading that lot and seeing the effort you put in to it i think i owe you 2 now.

Well done!!! :smiley: :smiley:

17

I thought that this could have been the best thing to ever happen for the employed driver (I’m an O/D).

Having been an employed driver all my working life ('til Jan '03) I know how employers have took advantage of the “long hours low basic pay” culture in our industry .

But now that they have brought in the P’s.O.A I think that there will be no change to the working week at all (especially for the container drivers who only drive as part of their job) ironically for me it will make it easier now if I decide to expand and employ drivers of my own :open_mouth:

I think it is just introducing legislation for legislation’s sake as by & large it will make no difference to a drivers week at all except having to work out his average hours in a more complicated formula than he/she does now!

18

Thanks Lucy that’s cleared a few things up :smiley: :smiley: :wink:

It really is all a bag of gonads!!! JUST WHO? is the dimwit that decided this will improve things for the driver…in my opinion it will only cause more stress trying to remember the mode switch on the tacho

As mentioned many times before…I too was hoping it would be a 48 hour duty time with appropriate pay adjustments.

Ahh well only 23 years of this crap left :wink: :unamused:

19

first thanks for all the work on our behalf.

Firstly i must go on record as being in favour of a shorter working week, but!. I do not want and cannot afford to drop £5000- £6000 a year. This will affect my current standard of living and also my future pension prospects (less going in the pot so a smaller pension on retirement). As a rough estimate in the 15 years between the Wtd coming in and me retiring and then living to 80 (hopefully) I will face a reduction of (assuming 3% inflation rises per year and 5% growth per year of pension fund) around £200000 in earnings. As i recall, dairy farmers and deep sea fishermen when they had their quotas cut , were given compensation hand over fist. As our quotas (hours) are to be cut, will we not be entitled to similar consideration? If thats not the case, then under Human Rights Legisaltion can a faceless penpusher in Brussels IMPOSE financial hardship on me and my family?

20

First, let me congratulate you Lucy on a job well done. If I arrive at Tilbury and reckon that it will take me 4 hours to get tipped and turned ( yes, one of their better days), but for some strange reason I am in and out in 30 minutes, what does that mean. Secondly, did it say anywhere that we have have to get a written estimated time to tip from the site we arrive at? Otherwise it is all just so much bovine effluent. (not your interpretation, that is)