The 'ROG' thread

I’ll do a quick cut down version -

Lorry sat for 10 days after garage next door had it
Lorry parked so close to an scapped artic trailer that the bonnet would only open about 12 inches
Not my lorry for that day but needed to move it so as not to upset company car parkers next door - all their cars would need to be moved later if lorry left there - they complained if that happens.
Got dipstick out - just - and saw that there was oil on it - ok to move then.
Moved lorry 100 feet - stopped - removed keys
Lorry was stationary for about 45 mins till instructor for that lorry came in and got keys.
That instructor (along with his 2 trainees) did not check oil
After I had left in my lorry with my trainees, that lorry started to lose oil out the ‘breather’ :question: :question: :confused: :confused: garage said seals blew due to too much oil being in it.
Got asked on my return that day if I had put any oil in lorry - I said no - THE TRUTH
Apparently it’s my fault as no-one else could have done it :exclamation: :exclamation: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

:confused: Can’t make out how you lost that one then ROG.

bubsy06:
Sounds petty if they sacked you for that.
They must of wanted you gone if they sacked you for that.

I had to stop trainees driving and bring them back early on ALL-DAY 1 to 1 training because they got too tired to drive and their brains were fried

Director told me that they paid for 0830 to 1700 training and that’s what they will get :exclamation: :exclamation: and I am to add up the driving time that 2 trainees get on 2 to 1 training and make sure that ‘behind the wheel’ time is given to a 1 to 1 all day trainee.

I stood my ground on the safety issue and the director had to back down - he did not like that…

3 weeks later guess what happened…

Draw your own conclusions

DAFMAD:
:? Can’t make out how you lost that one then ROG.

It’s not a COURT - it’s a TRIBUNAL

ROG:

DAFMAD:
:? Can’t make out how you lost that one then ROG.

It’s not a COURT - it’s a TRIBUNAL

So next step would be taking them to court :question: :question: …but that means time and expense, which you prob dont need or have :exclamation: :exclamation:

pecjam23:

ROG:

DAFMAD:
:? Can’t make out how you lost that one then ROG.

It’s not a COURT - it’s a TRIBUNAL

So next step would be taking them to court :question: :question: …but that means time and expense, which you prob dont need or have :exclamation: :exclamation:

you got it in one :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Now to find a solicitor who will suss out whether it is over 80% winnable - any less and I aint chancing my money :exclamation: - don’t know if I can get legal aid but it’s doubtful

How long have you been with this Company?

ROG:
I’ll do a quick cut down version -

Lorry sat for 10 days after garage next door had it
Lorry parked so close to an scapped artic trailer that the bonnet would only open about 12 inches
Not my lorry for that day but needed to move it so as not to upset company car parkers next door - all their cars would need to be moved later if lorry left there - they complained if that happens.
Got dipstick out - just - and saw that there was oil on it - ok to move then.
Moved lorry 100 feet - stopped - removed keys
Lorry was stationary for about 45 mins till instructor for that lorry came in and got keys.
That instructor (along with his 2 trainees) did not check oil
After I had left in my lorry with my trainees, that lorry started to lose oil out the ‘breather’ :question: :question: :confused: :confused: garage said seals blew due to too much oil being in it.
Got asked on my return that day if I had put any oil in lorry - I said no - THE TRUTH
Apparently it’s my fault as no-one else could have done it :exclamation: :exclamation: :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

Why would you check the Oil if you was only moving it 100’ ?
Surely it’s down to the Company to prove you did put Oil in it?
How well do you know the other Instructor? Is it possible that ‘he’ put the Oil in? Did you ‘call’ his Students to the Tribunal as witnesses?

ROG:

bubsy06:
Sounds petty if they sacked you for that.
They must of wanted you gone if they sacked you for that.

I had to stop trainees driving and bring them back early on ALL-DAY 1 to 1 training because they got too tired to drive and their brains were fried

Director told me that they paid for 0830 to 1700 training and that’s what they will get :exclamation: :exclamation: and I am to add up the driving time that 2 trainees get on 2 to 1 training and make sure that ‘behind the wheel’ time is given to a 1 to 1 all day trainee.

I stood my ground on the safety issue and the director had to back down - he did not like that…

3 weeks later guess what happened…

Draw your own conclusions

:question:

Was this brought up at the Hearing?
Did the Students ask you to drive them back?
Is it ‘legal’ to drive for that long?

I don’t understand any of this :question:

If both of the students were fine with finishing early whats the problem?

dinosteveus1:
How long have you been with this Company?

Why would you check the Oil if you was only moving it 100’ ?
Surely it’s down to the Company to prove you did put Oil in it?
How well do you know the other Instructor? Is it possible that ‘he’ put the Oil in? Did you ‘call’ his Students to the Tribunal as witnesses?

Was this brought up at the Hearing?
Did the Students ask you to drive them back?
Is it ‘legal’ to drive for that long?

I don’t understand any of this :question:

1 year and one day

Oil checked to make sure that I am not moving a truck with none in it

got on OK with other instructor

should point out that ALL the oil on the company premises was accounted for - yeh get that :exclamation: :exclamation:

New 20 litre container delivered 6 weeks prior after having no oil at all for a week and only 1 gallon missing - that gallon was used by other instructor 5 weeks previous BUT he claimed only to have used 1 litre to fill from min to max on the dipstick :exclamation: :exclamation:
Unless the amount from min to max on a dipstick is only 1 litre and not 1 gallon…

all the trucks used the same amount of oil to fill from min to max on the dipsticks - 1 gallon - but the other instructor claimed he filled the same min to max with just 1 litre

The company claimed that I used the ‘unaccounted for’ 3 litres to do the overfill with

Did mention H&S issue at tribunal but not persued as could not PROVE a link

Don’t take this that I’m having a go at you but did you check the Water as well? To be honest with you I still don’t understand the ‘need’ to check the Oil. 100 feet with minimum Oil would not have caused any problems, yes?

Did anybody speak his students? When I was learning I’d follow my Instructor around when he did his daily inspection just to make sure he didn’t do something that I didn’t know about. It stands to reason that they would also know how much oil he put in it.

From what you are saying how could it have gone against you at the Tribunal?

THE VERDICT - legally lost but morally won :question: :confused: :confused:


I only got a moral victory at the employment tribunal (ET).

The tribunal upheld the original decision of ‘gross misconduct’ reluctantly.

dinosteveus1:
From what you are saying how could it have gone against you at the Tribunal?

I should explain that the ET does not have the legal remit to change a decision by a company if it is deemed that the company, faced with the ‘evidence’ that they deemed to be right, and made a decision on, was reasonable to do so.

The company, T/A Roadrunner Training of Coventry, were faced with a truck, which, had been overfilled with oil and then subsequently had serious problems.

The company then conducted an investigation as to WHO put the oil into the vehicle and on completion of that investigation, deemed there was only one person who could have done it — ME!!

I was therefore sacked for gross misconduct.

The company ignored any evidence of WHERE the oil could have come from.
The only oil that had been available to use was a 20-litre container, which had been delivered about 6 weeks prior to the incident of 13 May 2008, and this container only had 1 gallon missing when inspected under my insistence on the disciplinary hearing of 22 May.
That missing gallon had been used by another instructor about 5 weeks prior to the incident and was easily remembered as that instructor had asked me how to remove the seal, which I did, and then to assist him with the pouring as a 20-litre is a bit awkward to pour into a 1-gallon jug.

That instructor claimed that he did use oil but only 1 litre (to fill from min to max in a truck!!) therefore leaving 3+ litres, which the company claimed I used to overfill the truck in question.

I asked at the disciplinary “where did I get the oil from?” and immediately got the reply “you must have brought your own”. I was not represented at this meeting nor did I have anyone who could be a company witness for me so when I asked for those comments to be put in the meeting minutes, guess what happened? Omitted.

This next bit is again very important. I was asked if I had put any oil into the truck and I replied NO.

Remember that this is only an ET and not a court so they cannot enforce their beliefs onto the company.

The judge also stated that although the company had followed the correct procedures, if they had been conducting the disciplinary then their decision would have been different.

I am now faced with a dilemma.
The judge has said that I am honest, GREAT, I’m happy that my honesty and integrity has been vindicated but the company did not believe me when I truthfully said that I did not put oil in the truck.
Where do I go from here??

The gross misconduct stands so I get no money and cannot even claim on my unemployment insurance but I will have a statement from the ET saying that I am credible (I assume that means honest) and the company, although legal, made an incorrect decision, which was too harsh for the ‘crime’.

Why didn’t you have a representative in with you?
Anyway, at the end of the day, isn’t it down to the Driver to check his own Vehicle before going out? Why didn’t this arse check the oil level before taking it out? If he had done he’d have realised it was too full. HE should be the one to get the boot, not you.

Sorry Rog but this is a sham, you really do need to seek some proper legal advice.

dinosteveus1:
Why didn’t you have a representative in with you?

I did - URTU Union rep fully accreditted

dinosteveus1:
Anyway, at the end of the day, isn’t it down to the Driver to check his own Vehicle before going out? Why didn’t this arse check the oil level before taking it out? If he had done he’d have realised it was too full. HE should be the one to get the boot, not you.

That question was put - Who is responsible? - in my view it’s whoever is responsible for the truck that day in this case - the other instructor

dinosteveus1:
Sorry Rog but this is a sham, you really do need to seek some proper legal advice.

onto it now :smiley: - had to wait for summary which only arrived today.

Hi Rog

sorry to here :frowning:

been there myslf know how you feel :frowning:

you can ask for a review (if i remember 15 days from when you got there decision )of that the said and highlight want you think is wrong, but remember if you what to appeal do it with in 45 days of notice

lost mine but still do it again if needed :frowning:

Hi Rog,

It seems that you have been treated really unfairly. :frowning:

Such a long wait for the hearing, then no real justice. :open_mouth:

I hope that if there are any other avenues to explore to put this right, that you are able to take them.

You’ve always given everyone on this site such solid support - I hope this turns out right for you.

LoadsOfHorses:
Hi Rog,

It seems that you have been treated really unfairly. :frowning:

Such a long wait for the hearing, then no real justice. :open_mouth:

I hope that if there are any other avenues to explore to put this right, that you are able to take them.

You’ve always given everyone on this site such solid support - I hope this turns out right for you.

What’s got me the most is being called a ‘LIAR’

I was asked if I had put oil into that vehicle and I told them the TRUTH which was

“NO, I had not used any oil for nearly 7 weeks”

and they did not believe me.

Seems very harsh Rog

Did they ever replace you or do you think it was an excuse because of what you said about the long day.

What do the other 50 paragraphs say?

burnie1:
Seems very harsh Rog

Did they ever replace you or do you think it was an excuse because of what you said about the long day.

What do the other 50 paragraphs say?

Replaced me with a self employed guy who wanted more work from them as his own small non-LGV training business was failing. He is also a mechanic and FLT trainer - He got what he wanted.

They are now advertising for a F/T instructor so either the other F/T one has gone or their workload has increased one heck of a lot :exclamation: :exclamation:

Am not going into all the 50+ paragraphs and to scan that lot and put on here would be too big a task as well as unnecessary.
The bits that really matter have been posted and I have removed any names - just in case :wink: - these docs are now public records - the case number is at the top of the scanned paper that I put together if anyone feels the need to request copies.

Not a result that one would have hoped for.

burnie1:
Did they ever replace you or do you think it was an excuse because of what you said about the long day.

Interestingly, following the initial ‘episode’ I got a second-hand phone call (which ROG knows about) asking if I would be willing to do a day there as an LGV Trainer. I declined. Essentially due to the travelling distance involved. Together with a “couldn’t be arsed” mentality. With the work that I was doing at the time, it would have meant more hassle for less money. :unamused:

Replaced me with a self employed guy who wanted more work from them as his own small non-LGV training business was failing. He is also a mechanic and FLT trainer

Is that a reference to Les? I know that he was a FLT trainer and, also either REME or RCT trained. :wink:

Krankee:
Not a result that one would have hoped for.

burnie1:
Did they ever replace you or do you think it was an excuse because of what you said about the long day…

Krankee:
Interestingly, following the initial ‘episode’ I got a second-hand phone call (which ROG knows about) asking if I would be willing to do a day there as an LGV Trainer. I declined. Essentially due to the travelling distance involved. Together with a “couldn’t be arsed” mentality. With the work that I was doing at the time, it would have meant more hassle for less money. :unamused:

ROG:
Replaced me with a self employed guy who wanted more work from them as his own small non-LGV training business was failing. He is also a mechanic and FLT trainer

Krankee:
Is that a reference to Les? I know that he was a FLT trainer and, also either REME or RCT trained. :wink:

Yes & he would be a ‘hostile witness’ I think is the phrase that a legal person would use :unamused: