THE LGV PERIODIC (ongoing) DRIVER CPC has started!

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
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Today is ‘the’ day - Thursday 10 Sept 2009. The LGV driver CPC has come into force. :exclamation:
THE OFFICIAL REGULATION

TruckNetUK Help File:
FROM HERE

THE PERIODIC (ongoing) DRIVER CPC
There are TWO types of DRIVER CPC and it has nothing to do with the OPERATOR CPC (National & International).

The PERIODIC (ongoing) for when you have the C1, C or C+E licence & the INITIAL (Which goes with a C or C1 licence acquisition)

The INITIAL driver cpc which goes with a C or C1 licence acquisition can be found HERE

The medical requirements will not change.

The upgrading to a C+E licence will not change.

THE PERIODIC (ongoing) DRIVER CERTIFICATE of PROFESSIONAL COMPETENCE ( PDCPC )

If you have obtained a C1, C or C+E licence by 10 Sept 2009 then you have ‘acquired rights’ (AKA ‘Grandfather rights’).
Those drivers with aquired rights will to complete 35 hours of periodic training by Sept 2014 to retain their right to continue, or seek, employment in a driving capacity as a self-employed or paid professional LGV driver.
This does NOT affect your right to retain your LGV licence. (The licence and the PDCPC are seperate issues)

Effectively, the PDCPC is akin to any other vocational qualification that needs to be revalidated every so often, such as ADR, First Aid at Work, HIAB or FLT licence etc. IMHO, any confusion arising from the idea of a PDCPC comes from the fact that it is a new concept. The qualifications I’ve mentioned above have all been ‘periodic’ ever since they were introduced.

Another way to think of the PDCPC is that you already hold the relevant LGV driving licence, but the PDCPC is intended to allow you to continue to practice the trade or profession of a paid LGV driver in that it’s your proof that you’re trained and qualified in the other elements of the job, apart from driving the vehicle.

The PDCPC is an ATTENDANCE of 35 hours of training over a set 5 year period at an approved centre with an approved trainer and can be done in 5 x 7 hour sessions - each 7 hour session can be split over 2 consecutive days.

The Driver CPC Qualification Card (DQC) will not be issued until the 35 hours has been completed and the driver does not have to produce one for the first 5 years if they have ‘acquired rights’ on 10 Sept 2009.
There is no need to carry your UK licence if driving in the UK during this period as the authorities can check via the DVLA database to see if a driver should have a DQC or have got aquired rights.

Once the full 35 hours has been completed at any time before 10 Sept 2014 the DQC will be issued and the expiry date on the DQC will be 10 Sept 2019.

NOTE: - If all of the 35 hours is not completed by the DQC expiry date or, in the first instance, by 10 Sept 2014, then any training already done is lost and the whole lot of the 35 hours must be started again and completed before a DQC is issued.

This next bit may seem daft but it is OK under the regulations -
If a driver does 35 hours in the week before the DQC expiry date and then does 35 hours in the week after the DQC expiry date then they could have almost a 10 year gap before having to do another 35 hours :exclamation:
Example -
35 hours done in the week prior to 10 Sept 2014 gets a DQC with expiry date of 10 Sept 2019.
35 hours done in the week after 10 Sept 2014 gets a DQC with expiry date of 10 Sept 2024. The DQC for this will get issued when the 2019 DQC expires.
The next 35 hours could be done in the week prior to Sept 2024.
So almost a 10 year gap in training from 2014 to 2024 :exclamation: :exclamation: :exclamation:

COST

  • A full list of APPROVED CENTRES & COURSES is available on the website of the Joint Approvals Unit for Periodic Training
  • The website is updated regularly and provides information on approved training providers at region/nation level

The prices below are from two of the major training providers for a 7 hour training session but they are subject to slight changes and inflation etc so I suggest that they are taken as an approximate realistic guide.

Major Provider A
Groups of 1-11 Drivers £125 each driver
Groups of 12-20 Drivers £1,150 each group

Major Provider B
Groups of 1-6 Drivers £160 each driver
Groups of 7-11 Drivers £152 each driver
Groups of 12-16 Drivers £144 each driver or Groups of 12-16 Drivers £1,405 each group.

Watch out for hidden costs such as VAT, the upload cost to the database which, at present, is £1.25 per hour per driver - ask if the course price is all inclusive.
The price for the DQC is included in the course fee.

Why are the courses so expensive :question: - Click the link to the JAUPT/skills for logistics site (below) and see how much the training providers have to pay just to be allowed to deliver the courses :exclamation:

The PCV PDCPC has been in force since 10 Sept 2008 and works in just the same way as the LGV.
Only one set of 35 hours PDCPC is needed to cover BOTH PCV & LGV

A PCV driver did 7 hours of PDCPC attendance training and you can read about that experience - HERE

Post contributors: - ROG, dieseldave & Krankee

Driver CPC hotline 0191 201 8112 (Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm)

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For those with aquired (grandfather) rights on both LGV & PCV there are a few issues in regard to the timing of passing the periodic driver cpc courses.

Any PCV periodic driver cpc training done before 10 Sept 2009 will not count for LGV IF all the 35 hours are not passed before 10 Sept 2013.

If the 35 hours are not completed by 10 Sept 2013 then the right to be paid to drive PCVs is suspended until all 35 hours are completed.

If the 35 hours of periodic training are completed between 10 Sept 2009 and 09 Sept 2014 then ALL the expiry dates on the DQC (driver cpc card) will be 09 Sept 2019.
This is confirmed by the e-mail below -

Thank you for your email dated 21 September.

I have spoken to the department in question and they confirmed that the information below is correct.
Please don’t hesitate to contact us again if you have any further queries

Yours sincerely
Colleen Vardy
Contact Centre Agent
Driving Standards Agency
Tel: 0300 200 1122
Fax: 0300 200 1155
Email: customer.services@dsa.gsi.gov.uk

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 21 September 2009 13:10
To: DriverCPC
Subject: Aquired rights for PCV & LGV - DQC dates

I contacted a lady this morning on the DSA driver cpc hotline (0191 201 8112) and she had to call me back with the answer as this was an ‘issue’ to which she had to investigate.

This was my question -
A driver has aquired rights for both PCV & LGV.
They do all their 35 hours of periodic training in 2010.
What date or dates will be on the DQC ?

The answer -
Both the PCV & LGV and the card expiry dates will all be 09 September 2019

Please can you confirm this as it seems odd that one extra year is being given for the PCV !!

3

I thought there might have been a few comments by now :wink:

Perhaps the moving of it from the PDF to this forum has had an effect :slight_smile:

4

ROG:
Today is ‘the’ day - Thursday 10 Sept 2009. The LGV driver CPC has come into force. :exclamation:
THE OFFICIAL REGULATION

TruckNetUK Help File:
FROM HERE

Why are the courses so expensive :question: - Click the link to the JAUPT/skills for logistics site (below) and see how much the training providers have to pay just to be allowed to deliver the courses :exclamation:

Post contributors: - ROG, dieseldave & Krankee

Driver CPC hotline 0191 201 8112 (Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm)

Situation Vacant.

JOB TITLE: MANAGER Of The Joint Approvals Unit For Periodic Training

DATE: 1st April 2009 (Is this date relevant?)

TITLE OF IMMEDIATE LINE MANAGER: Operations Director / Head of Quality Assurance

  1. KEY OBJECTIVE OF THE JOB

To manage the Joint Approvals Unit for Periodic Training (JAUPT) on a day to day basis, ensuring that a quality service is delivered to end users and that the unit complies fully with its contractual requirements.

  1. SUMMARY OF DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES
  • Manage the JAUPT on a day to day basis
  • Line manage JAUPT employees, ensuring that work is delivered to time and to the required standard
  • Co-ordinate and quality assure the work of external contractors including those engaged in course approvals/re-approvals and in centre audits
  • Ensure that all polices and procedures are in place and are complied with
  • Ensure that contracts are in place with sub-contractors and that sub-contractors comply with contractual arrangements
  • Ensure that approvals and audits are carried out to the required standard
  • Ensure compliance with data protection requirements and the requirements relating to the physical security of documents
  • Liaise with providers to provide support and/or to ensure that providers comply with the terms of their approvals
  • Carry out regular reviews of systems and processes to ensure that JAUPT continues to develop and improve its services and efficiency
  • Develop and update JAUPT documents eg guidance notes, updates etc
  • Ensure that the JAUPT website is up to date and functions efficiently
  • Attend meetings on behalf of the JAUPT, including regular meetings with DSA, DVA and with industry bodies such as SSCs and the trade associations
  • Set up, attend and service meetings in relation to the JAUPT
  • Speak on behalf of the JAUPT, including provide presentations as needed
  • Draft reports and operational plans as required
  • Collate and analyse approvals statistics on a quarterly basis
  • Manage the JAUPT budget
  • Oversee banking arrangements on behalf of the JAUPT
  • Identify and contribute to appropriate external projects eg DSA/DVA projects
  • Contribute to delivery of routine services as required eg telephone enquiries, processing approvals
  1. QUALIFICATION REQUIRED FOR JOB

A sound level of education, at degree level, or equivalent experience.

  1. EXPERIENCE REQUIRED TO DO THE JOB

Essential:

  • Experience of working autonomously at senior level
  • Experience of project and contract management
  • Experience of working with external partners and of relationship management
  • Experience of writing reports and complex documents
  • Experience of quality assurance/audit processes
  • Experience of line management
  • Experience of handling difficult and complex situations requiring negotiation and diplomatic skills

Desirable:

  • Knowledge of PCV and/or LGV industries
  • Knowledge of Driver CPC
  • Experience of Microsoft CRM database software
  1. RESPONSIBILITY FOR PEOPLE

This job has responsibility for two members of staff

It also requires management of consultants and sub-contractors including officers in the SSCs who are acting as consultants as required. This requires sophisticated management skills. Additionally, the support and input of colleagues outside of the JAUPT (particularly from Skills for Logistics) is needed in some instances.

  1. RESPONSIBILITY FOR COSTS

This post holder has the responsibility of overseeing the day to day delivery of the JAUPT contract and associated budgets and costs.

  1. CONTACTS INSIDE AND OUTSIDE THE COMPANY

This job has extensive contacts inside and outside the company. Communication is often complex. External contacts specifically from the summary of duties and responsibilities:

  • Represent JAUPT in meetings with key stakeholders including DSA, DVA, Skills for Logistics, GoSkills, FTA, RHA
  • Agree the role/contribution of JAUPT to specific activities eg production of documents on Driver CPC
  • Manage the relationship with DSA/DVA
  • Speak on behalf of the JAUPT, including provide presentations as needed
  1. ANALYTICAL REQUIREMENTS

This job has analytical requirements. Specifically from the summary of duties and responsibilities:

  • Ongoing review and analysis of approvals
  1. MANUAL SKILLS

There is computer work continually involved in the job and other usual types of office machinery, such as a printer, photocopier, fax, telephone, etc. Also, driving skills would be beneficial as this position requires attendance at external meetings

  1. PHYSICAL EFFORT

Minimal — primarily related to travel

  1. WORKING CONDITIONS

The job is office based.

Who are the Driver CPC Stakeholders?
ACPO, ACPOS, CPT, DSA, DVA, FTA, GoSkills, HSE, QCA, REC, RHA, Skills for Logistics, SQA, T&GWU, TfL and VOSA

POST FILLED

The Joint Approvals Unit for Periodic Training (JAUPT) has appointed Stephen Thorp to the new role of JAUPT Manager. Stephen, who has extensive training and development experience, joins JAUPT from Tesco, where he held the role of Training Manager and had responsibility for planning for the introduction of the Driver CPC.

Stephen’s responsibilities at the JAUPT include day-to-day management of the JAUPT, monitoring centres and courses through the audit process and overseeing all approvals and re-approvals for centres and courses.

Welcoming Stephen to the Joint Approvals Unit for Periodic Training, Peter Huntington, Chief Executive, GoSkills said: “I’m delighted that we have been able to recruit a manager with Stephen’s experience and expertise. As the JAUPT continues to evolve, it is vital that we have the right staff in place. The coming year will be particularly demanding for JAUPT with the re-approval of courses for PCV, the roll-out of the audit programme and the introduction of the Driver CPC for those drivers with LGV licences.”

Having designed and delivered training courses for retail and transport operations at Tesco, Stephen is an experienced industry trainer who holds Charted Institute of Personnel and Development qualifications and is also a Member of the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport.

Stephen said: “I am looking forward to the challenges and to working with the PCV and LGV industries. It is exciting to join a young company such as JAUPT and to be able to shape the future development.”

skillsforlogistics.org/en/in … m09/jaupt/

The Driving Standards Agency (DSA) realised that the implementation of the Periodic Training element of Driver CPC would require an approvals unit to approve training centres and courses. Within the two industry sectors, passenger transport and freight transport, that are affected by this legislation there are two organisations called Sector Skills Councils (SSC’s).

These were set up by the government to help the employers in their sectors improve the skills levels of their workforce. The DSA agreed with these two organisations, Skills for Logistics (freight transport) and GoSkills (passenger transport) that they should manage the Periodic Training approvals process.

The two SSC’s set up a jointly run organisation called the Joint Approvals Unit for Periodic Training (JAUPT) to manage the approvals process for both training centres and courses. The JAUPT is based in Milton Keynes and deals training providers or operators who wish to becomes approved to deliver Periodic Training. This also includes operators who only wish to deliver Periodic Training to their own employees.

On behalf of the Driving Standards Agency and the Secretary of State two sector skills councils, Skills for Logistics and GoSkills, operate and manage a joint approval unit for periodic training (JAUPT). JAUPT uses a US-based data processing company, Salesforce.com to process some of the data about the registration of the training courses, which included the following personal information:
telephone numbers and e-mail addresses of employers, training providers, operators or suitably qualified individuals;name of person from the centre who made the application for it to become an approved centre;and name and qualifications of all trainers delivering courses.

We have received confirmation from JAUPT that personal data are no longer processed in the US on behalf of DSA in relation to this activity.

Asite Ltd runs a web-based system for the department for tendering purposes. The data are held in the UK and backed up to the US, and there is user administration access from India. The data include names, e-mail addresses and telephone numbers of about 150 individuals to allow them to access the web-based data room.

Just a few snippets gleaned from the web, hope they are of use to you! :imp:

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Wheel Nut:
/snip

POST FILLED

The Joint Approvals Unit for Periodic Training (JAUPT) has appointed Stephen Thorp to the new role of JAUPT Manager. Stephen, who has extensive training and development experience, joins JAUPT from Tesco, where he held the role of Training Manager and had responsibility for planning for the introduction of the Driver CPC.

So it all Stephen’s fault then !

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Is there a sylabus for each module?
And can one be considered a Health and Safety Module?

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muckles:
Is there a sylabus for each module?
And can one be considered a Health and Safety Module?

From the JAUPT site -
Basic Health and Safety Awareness CRS0265/63 LGV;PCV 3. Health, road and environmental…
Health and Safety CRS0243/114 PCV 3. Health, road and environmental…
Health and Safety CRS0151/160 PCV 3. Health, road and environmental…
Health and Safety CRS0179/15 PCV 1. Advanced training in rational…
Health and Safety Awareness for Drivers CRS0767/297 LGV 3 Health, road environmental safety,…
Health And Safety First CRS0065/47 PCV 3. Health, road and environmental…
Health and Safety/Basic First Aid CRS0168/277 LGV;PCV 3. Health, road and environmental…

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Thanks ROG, but it didn’t really give me the info I wanted. Which of the folling from the NTS Norwich website would cover Health and Safety?

Driver CPC Periodic Training

The Norfolk Training Services Ltd Driver CPC Periodic Training programme consists of 5 training modules, each of 7 hours’ duration, that can be taken as individual day units or together in a week-long programme(2).

The topics that will be covered are as follows:

Unit 1 - Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs
Unit 2 - Principles of Vehicle Loading and Manual Handling
Unit 3 - Accident Procedures/Fire Extinguishers/Emergency First Aid
Unit 4 - Safe and Fuel-efficient Driving (SAFED)
Unit 5 - Driver Daily Checks/cross-border vehicle checks

The Reason I’m asking is that we are required to do an health and Safety course at work, due to it being booked by some jumped up little jerk. who got asked to check out our health and safety policy and took it an extreme as he like to get people to do things his way as it makes him feel important.
I’ve already missed 1 of the courses as I took some time off and that really [zb] him off, as did me and my co-driver refusing to sign out of the 48 hour week, (because we aren’t covered by the same WTD regs that the mechanics are) Although he wouldn’t accept this and told the boss and phoned the health and safety advisor who didn’t know anytihind about the RTD.
Anyway I told the boss about trhe driver CPC and said it would be more relevent for me and my co-driver to do a health and safety module for that instead of spending a day listening to somebody telling me not to drink petrol, or stick my arm into a moving band saw.
Also me booking my own course would really [zb] the ■■■■■■■■. :laughing:

9

Would the H&S course you need at your place of work need to be tailored to particular needs :question:

If yes, then what many large hauliers have done is to have their own place approved for training etc so they can have their own tailored H&S course approved

An alternative is to have an apporoved periodic place to put together such a course and get it approved by JAUPT - the downside might be that to cover the cost of this, the price of such a course is likely to be quite high as it would have a limited market.

10

So as this is a proffesional qualification for use in your employment as a driver I would be fine driving my Roadtrain to shows etc and not bother with this CPC rubbish.

However if I needed to take a truck for a test drive at work or anything like that would I need the CPC or would it be exempt? :question:

I is confuzzled ROG HELP!!

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mikeyb:
as a driver I would be fine driving my Roadtrain to shows etc and not bother with this CPC rubbish.

If you drove it to the show - stayed there all day (or days) and then drove it to somewhere else and did the same again then the driving would not be your main activity so therefore exempt IMO
I would suggest calling the DSA hotline number in my signature to confirm this.

mikeyb:
if I needed to take a truck for a test drive at work or anything like that would I need the CPC or would it be exempt?

Are we talking about a road test for mechanical test purposes :question:

12

mikeyb:
However if I needed to take a truck for a test drive at work or anything like that would I need the CPC or would it be exempt? :question:

There is an exemption which is likely to apply to you as you mention testing, if you are a fitter doing a road test for example…

  1. (2) (c) A vehicle which is undergoing road tests for technical development, repair or maintenance purposes,
13

So not if I just wanted to go for a jolly to try out a new truck? I work in the office 98% of the time so driving is not my main activity.

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mikeyb:
So not if I just wanted to go for a jolly to try out a new truck? I work in the office 98% of the time so driving is not my main activity.

I don’t think you mean jolly to try out a new truck, I think you mean evaluative test drive. :wink:

15

mikeyb:
So not if I just wanted to go for a jolly to try out a new truck? I work in the office 98% of the time so driving is not my main activity.

If you were to drive the truck in your own time - perhaps on your unpaid break :wink: :wink: but covered fully by the company insurance etc etc then you will not be ‘paid to drive it’ so therefore it would not come under the scope of the driver cpc

16

ROG:

mikeyb:
So not if I just wanted to go for a jolly to try out a new truck? I work in the office 98% of the time so driving is not my main activity.

If you were to drive the truck in your own time - perhaps on your unpaid break :wink: :wink: but covered fully by the company insurance etc etc then you will not be ‘paid to drive it’ so therefore it would not come under the scope of the driver cpc

i would add that there would have to be no goods on the truck at the time you drove it, cos then it would be in scope

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delboytwo:
i would add that there would have to be no goods on the truck at the time you drove it, cos then it would be in scope

If I drove a truck for FREE (unpaid) then that would be outside the remit for the driver cpc
The driver cpc is for those getting paid to drive.

18

ROG:

delboytwo:
i would add that there would have to be no goods on the truck at the time you drove it, cos then it would be in scope

If I drove a truck for FREE (unpaid) then that would be outside the remit for the driver cpc
The driver cpc is for those getting paid to drive.

my post is based on this quote Rog

There are exemptions from the Driver CPC qualification for drivers of vehicles:

  • used for the non-commercial carriage of passengers or goods, for personal use

just cos you drove for free, if there no goods on the your ok
was it for personal use, or were you doing some one a favour if so i think you would still need one

19

Coffeeholic:

mikeyb:
So not if I just wanted to go for a jolly to try out a new truck? I work in the office 98% of the time so driving is not my main activity.

I don’t think you mean jolly to try out a new truck, I think you mean evaluative test drive. :wink:

Yes that would be the phrasing i was looking for :smiley:

20

delboytwo:

ROG:

delboytwo:
i would add that there would have to be no goods on the truck at the time you drove it, cos then it would be in scope

If I drove a truck for FREE (unpaid) then that would be outside the remit for the driver cpc
The driver cpc is for those getting paid to drive.

my post is based on this quote Rog

There are exemptions from the Driver CPC qualification for drivers of vehicles:

  • used for the non-commercial carriage of passengers or goods, for personal use

just cos you drove for free, if there no goods on the your ok
was it for personal use, or were you doing some one a favour if so i think you would still need one

I should have been clearer - [ZB] virus :exclamation: scews my brain up GRRR
The goods are not the main issue - it is whether those goods are being used for commerce (collecting or delivering) - the act of driving for FREE with goods on board and doing nothing with them would exempt the driver.