It’s got to be someone who made a success of running into europe as well as banging up and down the M1 and M6. It’s the difference between winning the prem and the champions league or the european cup as it should still be.
Blimey.
That,s a first!! I am in complete agreement with what “Bewick” has posted.
All he,s got to do now is to give Harry Dixon a bit of a pat on the back, and he,s made a new friend. I can,t see that happening. But " dum spiro,spero "
As NMM said. It,s gorra be Astran. Lots of subbies notwithstanding, Astran still had to organise the work.
Buycrider:
Blimey.![]()
That,s a first!! I am in complete agreement with what “Bewick” has posted.
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All he,s got to do now is to give Harry Dixon a bit of a pat on the back, and he,s made a new friend.I can,t see that happening. But " dum spiro,spero "
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As NMM said. It,s gorra be Astran. Lots of subbies notwithstanding, Astran still had to organise the work.
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OK there “Buycrider”! at least we are in common agreement on something! And go on then I’ll attach Burnholme to the list of “proper hauliers” I can still recall a Burnholme Guy Invincible parked on the left just through the railway bridge in Kendal with the high load leaning on a lampost and the bobby waiting to book him if anything fell off!!! They sent an empty motor from Penrith and transhipped the load!!! no-body got done! It wasn’t you was it Buycrider? PS was there a driver at Burnholm in the late 50s early 60s called Tommy Briscoe?? Cheers Bewick.
newmercman:
Bewick:
In my opinion this thread is just running amok as I believe that you can’t possibly compare yesteryears hauliers with to-days “logistic providers”!! I think you have to first split the “industry” into two distinct era’s i.e.pre “curtainsider” and post “curtainsider” (and before you Stobart worshippers get your knickers in a twist you are firmly within the “post” catergory!) Conveniently the pre curtainsider era was a lot more fragmented and of course the “dead hand” of BRS spoiled a lot of good traffic but they were eventually “seen off”!However during those"pre" years we still had, in the UK, a strong manufacturing base that unfortunately we no longer enjoy!Consequently the Hauliers of yesteryear were possessed of far more skill and knowledge than to-day’s regimented “by the manual” contract logistic suppliers! Therefore in my opinion to-days “curtain sliding” sat-nav guided steerers,managed by " computer assisted" desk bound “traffic planners”(who more than likely haven’t/couldn’t do the job at the wheel in any case)cannot be seriously compared to the old fashioned traffic manager and the multi skilled long distance driver of yesterday!!! these guy’s operated successfully without the aid of Computers/sat-navs/mobile phones ect.and in the main they did not run many empty miles either! You can’t tell to-day , at a glance, wether a “curtainsider” is loaded or M/T!! To-day the UK is no longer a manufacturing economy and todays "logistics providers"are "controlled by the giant supermarkets and secondly by their suppliers.The other side of the coin is the imports that enter the UK in ISO boxes (little skill needed there then either!) So I still maintain that the likes of Alf Sutton,J & A Smith of Maddiston,Robson’s,Gordon Plant, any number of the origional TDG firms,Harris & Miners,D & M Cargill, to name but a few were far superior operators than those involved in a “similar” industry to-day!! I hope I have stimulated further debate on the matter! Bewick.
Well said that man
Indeed, well said that man, couldn’t agree more.
But how is that supposed to stimulate further debate?
Those days are, by your own admission, gone. Like it or not we have to accept that the bulk of the haulage industry these days is logistics based.
Drivers are just ‘drivers’ nowadays, and any driver of a certain age will know exactly what that means.
Nostalgia’s nice, in it’s place, but you can’t turn back the tide.
If only you could . . .
I accept you can’t turn the clock back—period.But at the same time you can’t compare “chalk” and “cheese” so there has to be a divide on the subject and I just tried to make a distinction and I thought the cross-over to “curtainsiders” was a natural divide between then and now!To put it more “graphically” us old’uns wouldn’t care to work within the “new” logistics era and I’m positive that the largest majority of the current workforce/management would be totally unable to function in "yesteryears"transport industry! Bewick.
Not guilty on the slipped load Mr.S. It was probably the result of the driver being short of rope. Which happened occasionally,with Penrith,s finest.Especially when you had timber 2 or 3 high.
Harry Dixon , will be well pleased if he finds out that he has just had the Bewick seal of approval. He was one of the real "Old School " bosses. Hard but fair. Which is all a driver should need.
I didn,t start with them until the early 70,s. I can,t recall a Tommy Briscoe being there at that time,although the name rings a bell. I,ll ask one of my fellow “Old Burnholme-ians” when I see them round Penrith.
Stone the crows!! I now find that I agree with the post you put up at 10.26pm.
This won,t last
I,ll be applying to join the Bewick Transport Fan Club next.
This thread will run on and on. We have the same argument in the pub about motorcycle racing. Who was the best rider, Agostini, Hailwood, Sheene, Rossi, Rayborn, Dunlop, Duke, etc.
Different era, different machinery make it impossible to compare Angel Nieto and Valentino Rossi, much the same as comparing Brian Harris or Robsons to Stobart.
I think another company who need a mention here are Fransen. They were on almost every ferry or parkplatz at some time while owned and run by Henk Buzink. When he sold them it wasn’t long before they and P J Butler were history
Wheel Nut:
This thread will run on and on. We have the same argument in the pub about motorcycle racing. Who was the best rider, Agostini, Hailwood, Sheene, Rossi, Rayborn, Dunlop, Duke, etc.Different era, different machinery make it impossible to compare Angel Nieto and Valentino Rossi, much the same as comparing Brian Harris or Robsons to Stobart.
I think another company who need a mention here are Fransen. They were on almost every ferry or parkplatz at some time while owned and run by Henk Buzink. When he sold them it wasn’t long before they and P J Butler were history
Fransen sprung to mind when I first looked at this thread, they ran a very tidy fleet, used to get about a fair bit too, but they just did things a little better than the competition, the true ‘Greatest’ will have been somebody who did something nobody else had done, when others tried to muscle in on the action or jump on the bandwagon, they would’ve carried on regardless, welcoming the competition as it would make them look even more professional & then carry on working in & being the leaders in their particular field until the present time, I’ll give you a clue, it’s an anagram of NARTSA
Oh Malc, it’s Dunlop BTW, the TT is the greatest bike race of all & he was the best at it by far, Rossi second & Agostini third
hi
i could not agree more with you bewick, haulage of today and days gone by everything has changed so dramitcally there is not many skills needed today compared to the old days totaly different kind of loads drivers had to be multi skilled to do the job.plus the companies you dealt with were more understanding than todays wizz kids bashing a computer they understood the job as well as the hauliers.and regarding rates as my old boss used to say it is not the company that gives poor rates it is the haulier that quotes them
Buycrider:
Not guilty on the slipped load Mr.S. It was probably the result of the driver being short of rope. Which happened occasionally,with Penrith,s finest.Especially when you had timber 2 or 3 high.
Harry Dixon , will be well pleased if he finds out that he has just had the Bewick seal of approval.He was one of the real "Old School " bosses. Hard but fair. Which is all a driver should need.
I didn,t start with them until the early 70,s. I can,t recall a Tommy Briscoe being there at that time,although the name rings a bell. I,ll ask one of my fellow “Old Burnholme-ians” when I see them round Penrith.
Stone the crows!!I now find that I agree with the post you put up at 10.26pm.
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This won,t last
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I,ll be applying to join the Bewick Transport Fan Club next.
Hiya “Buycrider” well at least the Bewick “fan club” membership is made up of “salt of the earth” drivers!!! and not the majority of the population who don’t know the back-end frae’ the fron’t end!!! Bewick.
As said many times many companies from different decades could win this but why does everyone who is over 55 always say us young guys dont know what its like to work hard!! In days gone by we know you had to deal with manual boxes and manual labour but does that always make you a better driver?? Most older drivers look down the nose of anyone 40 and under as they think they have never did anything with their lifes except be a steering wheel attendant!!! Oh cant wait till pension time Ps i have done roping and sheeting, tanker and ,that scary eaton box. So still for me it must be stobart
knock10:
As said many times many companies from different decades could win this but why does everyone who is over 55 always say us young guys dont know what its like to work hard!! In days gone by we know you had to deal with manual boxes and manual labour but does that always make you a better driver?? Most older drivers look down the nose of anyone 40 and under as they think they have never did anything with their lifes except be a steering wheel attendant!!! Oh cant wait till pension timePs i have done roping and sheeting, tanker and ,that scary eaton box. So still for me it must be stobart
hiya,
i don’t think us coffin dodgers do much sprog bashing i’ve said before the very first motor i drove aged just 21 for a civilian boss was an eight wheeler and trailer, how? because i told the gaffer i was capable of doing so and had been doing so since age 18 (army) how did other much older guys react to seeing me punching such a monster about, by taking the wee wee of course usually whilst leaning against there 16 foot flat four wheeler and most of them had never driven anything bigger have even been told to go home and dig my Dinky Toys out and play with them, did it bother me, no way i just got on with the job and i was good at it, i never looked down on anybody but helped many.
thanks harry long retired.
knock10:
As said many times many companies from different decades could win this but why does everyone who is over 55 always say us young guys dont know what its like to work hard!! In days gone by we know you had to deal with manual boxes and manual labour but does that always make you a better driver?? Most older drivers look down the nose of anyone 40 and under as they think they have never did anything with their lifes except be a steering wheel attendant!!! Oh cant wait till pension timePs i have done roping and sheeting, tanker and ,that scary eaton box. So still for me it must be stobart
Iv’e heard sparrows breaking wind before!!! One of the reasons that the “older” generation were better “all rounders” than the the young “curtainsider” mob of to-day was the lack of brakes on the pre MOT testing era vehicles. In days gone by a driver had to look well ahead for both up and down grades and had to be able to use the manual box in conjunction with what little braking capacity the motor had! I remember when I was on the Brady Octopus and trailer having it drummed into me at 19 by Eric Postlethwaite that I had to remember that other than quietly bringing the outfit to halt when required the brakes were useless and they were Air! If you tried to brake any harder there was a puff of blue smoke and that was your lot!! As opposed to to-days “formulae one” braking systems that allows drivers to bool along and stop on a pin head if required where yesterdays drivers had to be constantly thinking of what lay ahead! If they had a lapes of concentration it could be “fatal”(which it sometimes was!!).As for one or two suggestions that Stobart should be awarded the title all I can say is Iv’e heard on a number of occaisions that if you want that kind of emloyment you are far better off joining the Army! The wages/conditions of emloyment/promotion prospects are far superior and you get a pension at the end of your service!!! Bewick.
Hi bewick
I suppose we all have our own way of thinking and thats good for the forum but this is about the Greatest British Haulier not the drivers capabilities. You are right when you say that the pre curtainsiders dont compare to the days current climate so maybe it should be someone who has came through the old and progressed into the new way of working■■? Im sure their is many who started with the horse and cart and still running today
Best reg knock10
i think as a all round company involved in different types of transport as got to be PRESTONS OF POTTO very long established company.plus there depot is fantastic
Sorry to repeat what has already been said many times, maybe this thread should be made into a poll !!
For achievements, trailblazing, trying things new and generally opening a new era in British transport, they is but one contender. ASIAN TPT / ASTRAN
Although i drove on many occasions, my main work was as a fitter, both for M + C transport and later for myself.
Working for Mervyn was a life changing experience in so many ways, people who know of the man will know exactly what i speak about, but during the many years in his employment i had numerous dealings with Astran inc. Bob Paul, Peter Cannon, Alison and Ewe. I also got on well with Tony, the fitter there, who was also a fine chap. Also i had the pleasure of meeting most all the drivers at some time or place.
Nobody, but nobody, in the British haulage industry has made such inroads into new fields of work, over time it opened up new opportunities and a whole new world of destinations to British hauliers, M + C being one of them.
Astran were special, the drivers were special, the subbies were special, the work and everything about it at the time had a special aura about it.
Many thought “i can do that”, many tried, some succeeded, alas many failed…
Of the ones that did get the job done, it was so often with the help and assistance from Bob Paul and the men that worked alongside of him.
Agents and various workshops / businesses along the route also had great respect for Astran, if you were one of theirs or a subbie working for them, they would assist you or even loan you money, such was the trust that Astrans earnt and lived up to. That kind of thing ONLY happens with the most special of companies. Can you imagine a small workshop or agent in far flung lands giving you free repairs or even cash advances ■■ No way, but so many did, the reason was because “Mr. Paul always pays” .
That simple reason alone is what makes Astrans the Greatest British Haulier ever…
M&C steve:
Sorry to repeat what has already been said many times, maybe this thread should be made into a poll !!For achievements, trailblazing, trying things new and generally opening a new era in British transport, they is but one contender. ASIAN TPT / ASTRAN
Although i drove on many occasions, my main work was as a fitter, both for M + C transport and later for myself.
Working for Mervyn was a life changing experience in so many ways, people who know of the man will know exactly what i speak about, but during the many years in his employment i had numerous dealings with Astran inc. Bob Paul, Peter Cannon, Alison and Ewe. I also got on well with Tony, the fitter there, who was also a fine chap. Also i had the pleasure of meeting most all the drivers at some time or place.
Nobody, but nobody, in the British haulage industry has made such inroads into new fields of work, over time it opened up new opportunities and a whole new world of destinations to British hauliers, M + C being one of them.
Astran were special, the drivers were special, the subbies were special, the work and everything about it at the time had a special aura about it.
Many thought “i can do that”, many tried, some succeeded, alas many failed…
Of the ones that did get the job done, it was so often with the help and assistance from Bob Paul and the men that worked alongside of him.
Agents and various workshops / businesses along the route also had great respect for Astran, if you were one of theirs or a subbie working for them, they would assist you or even loan you money, such was the trust that Astrans earnt and lived up to. That kind of thing ONLY happens with the most special of companies. Can you imagine a small workshop or agent in far flung lands giving you free repairs or even cash advances ■■ No way, but so many did, the reason was because “Mr. Paul always pays” .
That simple reason alone is what makes Astrans the Greatest British Haulier ever…
Well written Steve, I suport everything you have said. Astran were a cut above the rest and that is what made them the very best. RDF
I would put the BRS as one of the best as they treated their employees well and a company pension was provided in the 60s as well as supplying work to small hauliers and owner drivers and they did not take a large percentage off these small firms and they always did their best to make sure you were running legally and using road worthy equipment. They also did a very new thing (at the time ) when they sold shares to all their employees and some drivers who I know who saved and bought new shares did very well financially. I would also like to think that Robert Wynns Heavy Haulage was very inventive and creative when it came to moving large and difficult abnormal loads even though I worked for Pickfords. Astran is alongside these for its pioneering of road transport to overland places which most people would have thought impossible at the time when they first ventured out of Europe. I would rate these as the top three in probably the order above.
sammyopisite:
I would put the BRS as one of the best as they treated their employees well and a company pension was provided in the 60s as well as supplying work to small hauliers and owner drivers and they did not take a large percentage off these small firms and they always did their best to make sure you were running legally and using road worthy equipment. They also did a very new thing (at the time ) when they sold shares to all their employees and some drivers who I know who saved and bought new shares did very well financially. I would also like to think that Robert Wynns Heavy Haulage was very inventive and creative when it came to moving large and difficult abnormal loads even though I worked for Pickfords. Astran is alongside these for its pioneering of road transport to overland places which most people would have thought impossible at the time when they first ventured out of Europe. I would rate these as the top three in probably the order above.
Hiya “Sammy” this is just an observation and not a critisism of your opinion! But as regards “the BRS” If you were to have the backing of the “bottomless” pit of public money you could sure create a fine operation as no one in the private sector could compete fairly as the “playing field” was never level! As for the “privatisation” of the National Freight Corperation well all I would say is if you sell e.g.a one pound (£1)share for ten pence (10p) to your own employees they sure as hell are going to make a killing!!! So I honesty believe that you cannot compare Nationlised operations which enjoyed all the benefits which that entailed with a privately run operation with none of the same advantages of “the BRS”.Cheers Bewick.
I nominate P.j Butler and sons from Oldbury in the West Midlands.
I’ll always be indebted to Furzy Butler and my old man for giving me an unofficial apprenticeship for neigh on 14 years and teaching me all about the road transport industry.
They used to employ some right characters and i couldnt wait for the school holidays to begin and i could be out on the road again and meet all these drivers and get to see the sights of Britain.
They used to trail blaze across Europe in day cab AEC Mandators,then Marathons and im proud to think that my old dad used to goto Europe in these vehicles,no Globetrotters then.
As for this old ■■■■■■■■ about Stobarts putting people out of work,hasnt every haulier done that over time?
I dont think Stobart was the first to do it or will be the last to do it,i think its what they call competion isnt it??
I’ve just got this feeling its the old British disease again,if someones succesful then do all yo can to knock them back down again!!!