The end of rh freight

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
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Bulgarians can work for a fraction of our wages because of arbitrage- the cost of living in Bulgaria is far lower.

Here for example is a three bedroomed detached house in a good area with a 1950m garden and a stone barn for conversion, yours for £33,570.

It simply is not in our interest as a wider economy to export all of these job because, as Henry Ford understood, if your workers earn a good wage then this will create more employment and more prosperity as their wages move around the local economy…

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FH16Globetrotter:

OVLOV JAY:
FH16, you’re the kind of operator who’s the cause of the problems in this industry. We don’t want “rock star” wages, just a livable wage, which also reflects a substantial investment in training. Tescos checkout is a minimum wage job, lorry driving isn’t. If you’re a quid a mile and a mars bar glory boy, then give up, or if as your username eludes to, you run top spec motors, at the expense of paying your drivers a livable wage, then shame on you. I bet your pleading poverty to your drivers while you drive around in a flash car too! :unamused:

No offence, but you don’t know anything about what kind of operator I am. I pay a wage which my drivers are happy with, and which is above average among hauliers in this area.

As for the quid a mile and mars bar bit, I’m happy to bow to your superior knowldge on what my customers get charged by me for doing the work I quote on, I’m sorry I’ve been such a fool all this time! I should just have diteched all the cost modelling and revenue projections, and given you a call! How many trucks do you run out of interest? :sunglasses:

As for the flash car, surely what I spend my income on is my business? Does anyone dictate to you how you spend yours? :unamused:

I never implied I knew anything about your business, I used the magic word IF. And IF, as you say, you pay better than average wages, why are you not paying minimum wage, if that’s “business”? :blush:
I don’t think I’m god, or that I have a superior knowledge, but paying over the odds for wages isn’t good business, and if this is a minimum wage business…

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OVLOV JAY:
I never implied I knew anything about your business, I used the magic word IF

I beg to differ. You quite clearly stated …

OVLOV JAY:
FH16, you’re the kind of operator who’s the cause of the problems in this industry.

… which was risque at best considering your lack of knowledge about me, my drivers or the work I do.

OVLOV JAY:
And IF, as you say, you pay better than average wages, why are you not paying minimum wage, if that’s “business”?

I could pay less money (and indeed did in the past), however there is then the issue of driver turnover, which like everything else, has a cost. I have found a good bunch of drivers so I pay a slight premium to hang on to them, but I could just as easily pay much less and have to print off a few P45’s now and then. As it is I have not had a driver leave of his own accord in over 3 years.

OVLOV JAY:
I don’t think I’m god, or that I have a superior knowledge, but paying over the odds for wages isn’t good business, and if this is a minimum wage business…

I can still afford to pay the wages I do while still achieving the returns I desire. When that becomes impossible (and it will eventually) I will look to reduce the cost base further, and if that proves to be less than practical I will sell up and re-invest the capital elsewhere. It’s not an emotional decision, it’s based on facts and figures.

I am quite happy with my cost base being higher than Johnny Foreigners, as I can still make the job pay as it stands. However, unlike many others I am not about to start having a temper tantrum and playing the "It’s not fair mummy :frowning: " card just because someone else can do the job with a lower cost than me! It didn’t do the manufacturing industry any good over the last 30 years,so I’m not going to be stupid/blind/naive enough to think it will work for the haulage industry now. It’s called economics . :unamused:

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My opening statement, for the hard of reading, refers to your attitude as an operator, not your business model

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Yes you are right, I think what our friends are trying to get at is that our standard of life is being brought down by the amount of foreign drivers who are prepared to come here and work for a lot less than us but they can go back home and live like kings.
We do not want ‘rock star’ wages but we’ll still be here in 10 years still trying to pay a mortgage but our cheaper rivals will have gone home by then as It looks like most manufacturer’s are moving abroad now as this country is on its arse!

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don`t make it right though

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OVLOV JAY:
My opening statement, for the hard of reading, refers to your attitude as an operator, not your business model

And for the hard of thinking, my opening statement in my reply to you was a direct response to your allegations regarding my attitude as an operator, and more specifically your complete lack of knowledge or facts surrounding me, my business or my operational attitude from which to base your opinions and allegations upon. :unamused:

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commonrail:
don`t make it right though

Course it doesn’t thats my point. But as long as Fuel costs keep rising and one way of getting the operating costs down (even incorporating damage to vehicles?) then our foreign friends will have the edge over us as we still have the British goverment to support out of our wages and houses that cost ten fold of what their’s do!
It’s utter ■■■■■■■ mate. :imp:

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FH16Globetrotter:

OVLOV JAY:
My opening statement, for the hard of reading, refers to your attitude as an operator, not your business model

And for the hard of thinking, my opening statement in my reply to you was a direct response to your allegations regarding my attitude as an operator, and more specifically your complete lack of knowledge or facts surrounding me, my business or my operational attitude from which to base your opinions and allegations upon. :unamused:

My “allegations” refer to your statement that lorry driving is a minimum wage job, you then said you’ve paid lower wages in the past, and would in the future if you had too. That’s my bug bear. You may hold that view for any number of reasons, but usually, operators who hol that view think stuff the driver. But without the driver, the wheels don’t turn. Each part of this industry needs each other. It’s like a machine, one missing cog = no end product. This isn’t directed at you, but I wish operators would either have the balls to stick together and charge proper rates, or buy cheaper lorries. Don’t keep knocking the driver!

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FH16Globetrotter:
Again, you are letting your arse do the talking. I have never inherited anything as of yet. I bought the assets of a failing haulage firm, started it again from scratch with a new company and o’licence, and grew the business from there. I knew sweet F.A about haulage when I started, but started from scratch and struggled in the beginning just like everyone else! And whilst the haulage firm may not take up the majority of my time, it does in fact make more money than my IT company currently, and if it wasn’t providing a decent return would have been gone long ago!

Take my hat off to you good sir!!

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OVLOV JAY:
My “allegations” refer to your statement that lorry driving is a minimum wage job, you then said you’ve paid lower wages in the past, and would in the future if you had too. That’s my bug bear. You may hold that view for any number of reasons, but usually, operators who hol that view think stuff the driver. But without the driver, the wheels don’t turn. Each part of this industry needs each other. It’s like a machine, one missing cog = no end product.

I actually agree with you. However the fact remains that plenty of drivers WILL work for minimum wage if they have to, and hence plenty of operators will employ them on that basis.

If I am ever in a position where I have to employ drivers at Min wage to keep the business profitable then it will be a sad day, to be honest I would most likely shut up shop before it got to that stage. However, given a choice between a reduction in wages, or no job at all, most drivers would take the hit in the short term at least. I’m not talking about operators reducing wages to line their own pockets, I refer to a situation where it is a necessary step to keep the company trading.

OVLOV JAY:
This isn’t directed at you, but I wish operators would either have the balls to stick together and charge proper rates, or buy cheaper lorries. Don’t keep knocking the driver

The rates we charge are dictated by the market unfortunately. There will always be someone willing to do the job cheaper, and sadly it is more often than not a UK haulier! Also, buying cheaper lorries wouldn’t really help. The actual capital cost of a tractor unit is only about 3-4% of the operational cost - so even if you could cut the price of the truck in half, the reduction in your chargeable rate would be tiny.

Every other cost is either fixed or increasing year-on-year also: Insurance, Fuel, Yard Rental, Parts, Tyres and even the cost of the in-cab phone have all increased. I think the only cost which hasn’t increased recently is road-tax!

Hence, drivers wages are the only way to make a saving when you have to. :frowning:

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Did I mention I used to pull for Kuehne & Nagel and it was the best job I ever had, good rates, clean work and long distances. :stuck_out_tongue:

These cheaper trucks, would today’s driver get out of bed to drive one?

Sometimes a cheap truck is more expensive than an expensive one, downtime, maintenance and eventual resale value!

RH & K&N are likely to grow like DHL, Schenker and Gefco as worldwide operators, using operators from all over the world, including the UK

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The problem is that we are competing with people who do not even earn our minimum wage since they are not employed here. Increasingly, unaccompanied trailers are being pulled out of Ramsgate by Romanian drivers using RHD trucks which have been re-registered in Romania and whose drivers earn £700 a month.

This is not a situation we should welcome.

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Harry Monk:
The problem is that we are competing with people who do not even earn our minimum wage since they are not employed here. Increasingly, unaccompanied trailers are being pulled out of Ramsgate by Romanian drivers using RHD trucks which have been re-registered in Romania and whose drivers earn £700 a month.

Indeed, but providing these lads are sticking to the cabotage rules then it is still fair competition sadly. There is nothing stopping you, I or anyone else registering a few trucks in romania, employing some romanians on £700 a month, and doing the same work within the same rules and on the same terms!

Apart of course from most of us (myself included) not wanting to be arsed with that kind of hassle, which let’s be honest just means we’re too lazy to put the effort in!

Harry Monk:
This is not a situation we should welcome.

It’s also not something we can do a whole lot about. :open_mouth:

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gogzy:
things are bloody cheap in bulgaria, alot less than here.

Including life, judging by the way they drive. :open_mouth:

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Harry Monk:
Bulgarians can work for a fraction of our wages because of arbitrage- the cost of living in Bulgaria is far lower.

Here for example is a three bedroomed detached house in a good area with a 1950m garden and a stone barn for conversion, yours for £33,570.

It simply is not in our interest as a wider economy to export all of these job because, as Henry Ford understood, if your workers earn a good wage then this will create more employment and more prosperity as their wages move around the local economy…

^ +1
But the ironic part of it all is that when the zb’s who can’t understand that simple idea have totally zb’d up the country’s economy they’ll all be the first to zb off to retire on the profits they’ve made while everyone else goes down with the ship.

And the sad part of it is that we’ve got young people joining up for the army as IED fodder (probably because they can’t find a job) to fight for a country that is’nt worth fighting for. :imp:

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gogzy:
things are bloody cheap in bulgaria, alot less than here.

I live in Bulgaria and can confirm things are cheaper here than they are in the UK

Bread 32p a loaf, Milk 30p a half litre, Petrol £1.00 a Litre Diesel £1.12 a Litre, Cigarettes £2.20 a packet Sounds great doesnt it until you consider the wages the Bulgarians get, Our neighbour works 6 x 8 hr shifts a week in the local shop for 200 Lev per MONTH thats less that £100

LGV Drivers are Lucky to get £25 per day for continental work, or £15 per day for local i.e delivering in Bulgaria, I’ve just paid an electrician £85 to rewire a house and I was told I was being overcharged yet the work standard is far superior than the UK Sparky’s

Yes things are cheap, but wages are crap and when you start to look at the price comparisons with the UK they aint a lot better, I’m lucky I have a Private Pension so what I would of scraped by on in the UK I can live happily with over here.

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As a country we are going to face enormous problems in the future due to this obsession with forcing down the cost of labour which has existed since the Thatcher era. Our industry is simply following the path of many others but it would be possible to reverse the trend over the long term using taxation and legislation.

A permit system could be introduced rationing work undertaken outside the haulier’s home country for example.

But this will of course not happen because everything which used to be done by ordinary British people has been automated, outsourced or is now done by immigrants- the Government estimated that 13,000 migrant workers would arrive when the eu expanded in 2004, in the event 600,000 people arrived.

If I want to find out the train times for a trip from Margate to Ramsgate, I have to ask somebody from Bangalore.

It’s the kids I feel sorry for. After three or four years at University, running up enormous debts, they will be lucky if they can get a minimum wage job paying less than £10,000 a year after tax and are destined to spend their lives sharing accommodation with their peers and spending every penny they earn just surviving.

I hope they put up more resistance to it than we do.

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The simple fact remains , and what I think upsets a lot of UK based international drivers is RH Freight was a good company to work for, (I spent many a weekend out in Europe with RH Drivers) and the long term drivers got dumped on from a big height when it became apparent that RH could save a fortune by opening depots in ex eastern bloc countries and employing drivers from those countries to do all their work.

This led to a very bitter taste in the mouths of many an experienced international driver who was suddenly relegated to local loads and tips and the obvious loss of wages.

Was it a sound business option to choose? probably yes, was it fair and equitable on their long term UK employees? debatable, but in my view probably not.

I beleve that by their actions RH have contributed heavily to the death knell of the UK international haulage industry… but have succeeded in creating a successful and on going company , which is more than can be said for many UK international hauliers who didnt sell out their work force for a few pennies more

<The above is my personal view as an ex international driver >

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Rikki-UK:
The simple fact remains , and what I think upsets a lot of UK based international drivers is RH Freight was a good company to work for, (I spent many a weekend out in Europe with RH Drivers) and the long term drivers got dumped on from a big height when it became apparent that RH could save a fortune by opening depots in ex eastern bloc countries and employing drivers from those countries to do all their work.

Was it a sound business option to choose?

It’s just one example of an issue which applies throughout the whole economy,not just the British international road transport sector,and the obvious long term implications of that type of logic will eventually result in the transfer of the country’s wealth to other states,based on short term gains for a few who are making some profit at the expense of the nation’s interests in general.

Unless you’re one of the workers from those states,who are getting the exported jobs,or a foreign government getting what is effectively a transfer of wealth from a richer country to a poorer one,or one of the business owners profiting from the idea of the cheap labour opportunities,by taking advantage of the differences in wage expectations by those from less developed economies,then it’s a case of everyone else in the home economy is getting dumped on from a big height because of the loss of tax revenues,unemployment,and loss of spending power in the economy.