The Driver CPC Rip off

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Now we have to do the drivers cpc by European legislation. The idea to continually train drivers must be good for the industry, however we must be economicaly efficient in how we do it.

I have big concerns on what the industry will be charged to simply add data to a database. Yes i know it sounds stupid but every driver who has training as part of the drivers cpc will have to have this recorded on a central database.

The charges for doing this is £1.25 per hour of training.
Each driver will have to average 7 hours per year which comes to £8.75 per driver per year.

Now then how many drivers does the drivers cpc effect. The truth is nobody knows because it effects all drivers driving passenger vehicles over 9 seats and all drivers of goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes.

There could be 1 million drivers effected in the UK, which means that £8.75 per driver per year becomes £8.75 million cost to the industry.

Thats £8.75 million revenue for providing a database that the industry keeps updated.

Can somebody try and justify this please

The associations must stop this nonsense because you as an industry are paying for them to attend the meetings and let this rubbish get approved!

2

The drivers CPC starts to come into force in Sept 2009 although existing drivers will have till 2013 before every driver is required to have it. I like you think its another way for the government to make money and quite unnecessary for an experienced professional driver… :imp:

3

I’m an agency driver. I have worked out, that by the time i am forced to take the drivers CPC, i will be 62. Probably along with a lot of others, since most drivers seem to be about the same age as myself. I for one will have to give serious thought as to wether its worth my time and trouble. Or should i just find some nice little job outside the industry to tide me over !.

4

I will be 63 by the time I need it and I don’t want to go on driving until I retire, to that end I am in the process of doing a full National Road Transport CPC now… :slight_smile:

5

Smee:
I will be 63 by the time I need it and I don’t want to go on driving until I retire, to that end I am in the process of doing a full National Road Transport CPC now… :slight_smile:

So Smee, if you get your Full CPC does that mean you dont have to take the Drivers CPC :question:

6

No, the two are entirely unrelated, they only share in the unfortunate name

Can’t believe no one considered the possible confusion that would undoubtedly arise from joe public when coming up with a name for this daft caper. :unamused:

7

WildGoose:
No, the two are entirely unrelated, they only share in the unfortunate name

Can’t believe no one considered the possible confusion that would undoubtedly arise from joe public when coming up with a name for this daft caper. :unamused:

I would have favoured driver NVQ as, apparently, there already is one which, I have been told, is 75% the same as the proposed driver CPC.

8

I don’t see the problem with the name, to be honest. I’ve never come across anyone who confused a GCSE in Geography with a GCSE in English, so why on earth do people find it so hard to understand the idea of CPCs in different subjects? There are already several - Freight National, Freight International, plus the various versions for PSVs.

Maybe this complete lack of inclination to actually THINK about anything is precisely why people are so scared of this new training. For years and years we’ve been saying we want recognition as a skilled trade, and official qualification beyond a basic licence is the most accepted way of doing that in every other job, so should have the same effect in this one.

But no. Once the chance comes along, shout it down. Agency drivers earn more because they don’t have company benefits, yet they still moan when they have to use that extra money for the reason it is intended. Company drivers are so stuck in their own little rut that they don’t want to have to bother.

It’s like everything else in this pathetic little industry. Truck drivers aren’t stupid, it’s just that, when it comes down to it, they can’t be arsed.

9

where do we get the driving cpc for 1.25 an hour.
i was thing that like a forklift course or haz,we would be paying hundreds

10

Lucy:
For years and years we’ve been saying we want recognition as a skilled trade, and official qualification beyond a basic licence is the most accepted way of doing that in every other job, so should have the same effect in this one.

But no. Once the chance comes along, shout it down.

And a look around the various forums, or tune in to the conversation in a truckstop or waiting room, revels that the drivers who are complaining loudest about the CPC are mostly the same ones saying we should take action because nobody respects us as professionals and things* need to change. How does that work then, are those two views not opposite sides of the same thing**?

*Still no clearer on what ‘things’ are BTW. :wink: :smiley:

**That’s a different thing to the ‘things’ BTW :wink: :smiley:

11

I am well aware the two are totally unrelated and just out of interest I did the drivers NVQ three years ago… :slight_smile:

12

crazy eh! i’ve been driving natiowide for 12 years now [only 35 now] and someone in Brussels decides i don’t know how to secure a load or know anything about weight transferal.

13

I don’t see the problem with the name, to be honest. I’ve never come across anyone who confused a GCSE in Geography with a GCSE in English, so why on earth do people find it so hard to understand the idea of CPCs in different subjects?

Because they sound one hell of a lot more similar than your example above, a better one would be English Language/English Lit and no one can comprehend why there would possibly need to be two separate qualifications for such an uncomplicated vocation such as ours.

I’m new to this, so I have not once moaned about a lack of proper quals for drivers, I quite liked the idea of being qualified to do a job after a driving test. There aren’t enough jobs left that you can just turn up to, and learn while you are doing it, without having to be signed off every stage of the way.

The CPC in Road Haulage covers valid topics that a transport manager would need to know. We all know full well the drivers CPC is going to be a tedious exercise off egg sucking for 35 hours every 5 years. Like that manual handling course we have all had to repeat a dozen times, finished, walked downstairs, and carried on lifting things the same way we have done for years, because manual handling assumes the most you will ever be asked to lift is a nice square box weighing no more than 15kg from a shoulder height shelf.

Depends of course how it’s implemented, and that is yet to be seen. But I would give you 10 to 1 on it being a total waste of everyones time. But that’ll be an easy several hundred quid a day for the trainers thankyouverymuch. Yet another bod in a suit, with several combinations of letters after their name, that are about as much use as a chocolate teapot in the real world.

[EDIT] I was made to do an NVQ2 in the Navy, in aircraft maintenance. It was forced on you, because the MOD make money from every entrant. So cue lots of jumping through hoops, chasing signatures from supervisors who weren’t interested. Now I have a piece of paper giving me this qualification, which is completely useless, and wouldn’t get me a job anywhere near a civilian aircraft.

Of course I knew this before I started it, the same as I do with the drivers CPC, it will only elevate me above those drivers who have yet to have one, and considering that after 2014 it is mandatory, we will all have one and we will all be in exactly the same position as we are now. And trainee’s will still emerge from training just as nervous about starting a real truck driving job, and just as unsure about how to carry it out the way the company wants.

We will benefit nothing, at a huge expense to either ourselves or our employers. Whilst all the newly established trainers will be laughing all the way to the bank.

14

I think that everybody has misunderstood what iam saying.

Forget the drivers CPC it is coming and it is down to training companies and employers to come up with well delivered courses that will be usefull to drivers.

The point iam trying to make is that for doing nothing other that create and manage a database which to me will not be the mos expensive thing to do the DSA, Skills for logistics and Go skills will generate Millions.

When a driver has completed a course they will charge £1.25 per hour of training completed to simply have that data added to the database.

Can this be right.

If you are not careful the industry will be paying millions for no reason at all.

15

WildGoose:

I don’t see the problem with the name, to be honest. I’ve never come across anyone who confused a GCSE in Geography with a GCSE in English, so why on earth do people find it so hard to understand the idea of CPCs in different subjects?

Because they sound one hell of a lot more similar than your example above, a better one would be English Language/English Lit and no one can comprehend why there would possibly need to be two separate qualifications for such an uncomplicated vocation such as ours.

I’m new to this, so I have not once moaned about a lack of proper quals for drivers, I quite liked the idea of being qualified to do a job after a driving test. There aren’t enough jobs left that you can just turn up to, and learn while you are doing it, without having to be signed off every stage of the way.

The CPC in Road Haulage covers valid topics that a transport manager would need to know. We all know full well the drivers CPC is going to be a tedious exercise off egg sucking for 35 hours every 5 years. Like that manual handling course we have all had to repeat a dozen times, finished, walked downstairs, and carried on lifting things the same way we have done for years, because manual handling assumes the most you will ever be asked to lift is a nice square box weighing no more than 15kg from a shoulder height shelf.

Depends of course how it’s implemented, and that is yet to be seen. But I would give you 10 to 1 on it being a total waste of everyones time. But that’ll be an easy several hundred quid a day for the trainers thankyouverymuch. Yet another bod in a suit, with several combinations of letters after their name, that are about as much use as a chocolate teapot in the real world.

[EDIT] I was made to do an NVQ2 in the Navy, in aircraft maintenance. It was forced on you, because the MOD make money from every entrant. So cue lots of jumping through hoops, chasing signatures from supervisors who weren’t interested. Now I have a piece of paper giving me this qualification, which is completely useless, and wouldn’t get me a job anywhere near a civilian aircraft.

Of course I knew this before I started it, the same as I do with the drivers CPC, it will only elevate me above those drivers who have yet to have one, and considering that after 2014 it is mandatory, we will all have one and we will all be in exactly the same position as we are now. And trainee’s will still emerge from training just as nervous about starting a real truck driving job, and just as unsure about how to carry it out the way the company wants.

We will benefit nothing, at a huge expense to either ourselves or our employers. Whilst all the newly established trainers will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Spot on.

16

Lucy:
Maybe this complete lack of inclination to actually THINK about anything is precisely why people are so scared of this new training. For years and years we’ve been saying we want recognition as a skilled trade, and official qualification beyond a basic licence is the most accepted way of doing that in every other job, so should have the same effect in this one.

But no. Once the chance comes along, shout it down.

Truck drivers aren’t stupid, it’s just that, when it comes down to it, they can’t be arsed.

I agree with most of this, but the problem with the Driver CPC is that it will almost certainly do nothing to raise the profile of the professional driver because there is no legitimate qualification at the end of the training.

In my opinion a much better system would have been to allow home study followed by a classroom test, I believe that would lead to more study, more discussion and as a result a better understanding of the relevant subjects, and as a test would need to be passed it could legitimately be seen as a vocational qualification.

As it is we have to spend 35 hours every 5 years in a classroom, there’s no stipulation that you have to study, learn or have knowledge of anything, as long as you’re in the correct room for the specified amount of time you get the card.

Does anyone really believe that all drivers will take the opportunity to raise their level on knowledge, sorry but I can’t see it, and you only have to read some of the posts on this forum to see why.

I have no problem with vocational training, but I see this as a wasted opportunity to raise the standard of drivers knowledge and behaviour.

17

Wake Up!! :open_mouth:

having a pint the other week with the owner of a fairly large east kent haulier, we can’t afford to have drivers off for a week a year doing the CPC. Probably look at Easterns to cover the work after all very little checks done on their licenses by the authorities so whats the chance of a database covering CPC.

Coming to a website near you, Poish and Eastern European CPC certificates, very cheap!! :imp:

Have to agree with Coffee though, no point moaning about the indstry having a professional recognition then complaining when it comes along.

Puts Tin Hat on!!! :slight_smile: :wink:

I do however think that a grandfather rights type agreement should have come in for people already holding a license with a career record. Seems fairer to me. (As I am only 21 like Coffee and Simon we have plenty of time on our hands to do the course) :open_mouth: :unamused: :smiley:

18

bbez:
crazy eh! I’ve been driving nationwide for 12 years now [only 35 now] and someone in Brussels decides i don’t know how to secure a load or know anything about weight transferal.

I haven’t driven above 3.5 tonne professionally and I haven’t secured a load, but I do have a bit of sense.

I think for newbies like myself the CPC should address some of these shortcomings, but in reality it probably won’t. A multi choice Q & A sheet doesn’t actually give the practical training necessary.

As for drivers with ■■ years experience, some formal continuous professional development should be in place, but again the CPC, which is supposed to do that, is IMO going to be poorly executed. I think for these drivers stuff like first aid, legislative changes should be covered at regular intervals but teaching someone to ■■■■ eggs is insulting.

I liked the idea that has been aired before about drivers having to complete modules for the differing types of trailer, but this should not be an excuse for limiting that driver to that type of trailer.

Whatever the content of the CPC the only people profiting from it will be the training companies and the Goverment.

I agree that the image and training of the trucker needs to enter the 21st century, but I think this is gonna be a ■■■■ poor way of doing it.

19

When I was working on the buses we had to do BTEC course something similar to driver’s CPC. So you find yourself sat on the lectures and you listen. Whether you like it or not some of the stuff they talk about is going to stay in your head. And thats what they want, they’re not going to change the way you drive for past 25 years in 35 hrs, what they are trying to do is to raise awarness and highlight he most common issues everyone who drives on daily basis encounters. The company will send you for a course, they will have to pay for your time. You might just learn something useful. So what’s the problem?

20

N2N Transport:
Wake Up!! :open_mouth:

having a pint the other week with the owner of a fairly large east kent haulier, we can’t afford to have drivers off for a week a year doing the CPC. Probably look at Easterns to cover the work after all very little checks done on their licenses by the authorities so whats the chance of a database covering CPC.

Coming to a website near you, Poish and Eastern European CPC certificates, very cheap!! :imp:

Have to agree with Coffee though, no point moaning about the indstry having a professional recognition then complaining when it comes along.

Erm … we’re discussing the Driver CPC, what on earth are you discussing :smiley: