The Decline of The British Motor Manufacturing Industry

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
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Hello Everyone,

I am a post-graduate student at The University of Wales, currently researching into the Decline of The British Motor Manufacturing Industry and its impact on the British Work Force between 1970 and 1990. Companies that went into decline include British Leyland, BMC, Nuffield, Austin, Rootes,etc… It has been challenging finding people who are familiar with that phase of the industry.

So far I have read several books on the topic but it would be of great help, if I could hear from people who are familiar with the industry during that period.

It will be most helpful if anyone who is conversant with it can spare the time to kindly answer a brief questionnaire on the topic and/or forward it to AS MANY PEOPLE (WHO MAY BE AWARE OF THE TOPIC) AS POSSIBLE.

Please find below, the topic and link to the online survey for the research.

The Topic: The impact of the Decline of the British Motor Manufacturing Industry on Labour Employment Market between 1970 an 1990.

The Link: stellarsurvey.com/s.aspx?u=2 … 387F251D6&

Please if anyone has information that may be of use to this research, please kindly reply to this post.

Thanks!
P.S: I received consent from Rikki Chequer before posting this.

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You’ll find Red Robbo running the picture desk at the Morning Star!

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viewtopic.php?f=35&t=77860&hilit=+LEYLAND

It was a perfect storm of customers who didn’t know a good product when they saw one and/or too often couldn’t afford it if they did because of the British government’s continuing bs idea that ‘austerity’ and wage restraint is the answer to everything.

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The most important thing about university study is attention to detail. Your survey ■■■■■. You have duplicated answers to your own question. I tried to fill it out twice and it goes back to the beginning each time.

I disagree rather than disgree and question 8 is misleading to say the least

5

Long and tedious repetition in questions makes me tired so I gave up.

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and don’t forget truck and tractor plants that are long gone…
Leyland tractors
Massey Ferguson tractors
ERF
FODEN

please keep adding lads.

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Thank you all for your comments, responses and suggestions so far.

The survey is still open to interested respondents.

Thanks!

8

Trukkertone:
and don’t forget truck and tractor plants that are long gone…
Leyland tractors
Massey Ferguson tractors
ERF
FODEN

please keep adding lads.

David Brown
International Harvester
Ransomes
Massey Harris
Bristol
Bedford
Commer
Dodge
Jowett
Seddon
Seddon Atkinson

9

Because the English factory workers were lazy and work shy and would drop tools for any reason,the English cars were rubbish,the Montego,Metro,Allegro and so on,poorly made by a blind man,would break down,let the rain in on a summers day,make weird rattling noises.

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David Brown
International Harvester
Ransomes
Massey Harris
Bristol
Bedford
Commer
Dodge
Jowett
Seddon
Seddon Atkinson

think Jowett went sometime before the '70’s :smiley:

11

Because night shift workers would take their sleeping bags to work and sleep on bunkbeds, and then sleep for 8 hours of a 12 hour shift, come on it ain’t hard.The unions & workforce took the pi55, and were found out.

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toby1234abc:
Because the English factory workers were lazy and work shy and would drop tools for any reason,the English cars were rubbish,the Montego,Metro,Allegro and so on,poorly made by a blind man,would break down,let the rain in on a summers day,make weird rattling noises.

If there was any laziness it was more a case of they pretend to pay us so we pretend to work and zb cars like the Allegro were just a reflection of the nation’s buying power at the time because unlike the 1960’s and early 1970’s not many people could afford to buy or run something like a decent 6 cylinder Ford,Triumph or Jag or a V8 Rover instead.

The only difference between then and and now that the workers haven’t got the bottle to stand up for themselves and probably wouldn’t get anywhere even if they did because of Maggie’s idea of oversupplying the labour market.So all they can afford now is a bike if they’re lucky instead of even an Allegro. :unamused:

13

toby1234abc:
Because the English factory workers were lazy and work shy and would drop tools for any reason,the English cars were rubbish,the Montego,Metro,Allegro and so on,poorly made by a blind man,would break down,let the rain in on a summers day,make weird rattling noises.

You speak the truth, when I was 18 my father had a 2.0 Montego if you pulled out of a juntion and accelerated the steering had to be forcibly turned back to the centre over 80 M.P.H the bonnet would flap about and two hands were needed on the wheel.

A scary piece of junk, we now build some of the finest mass produced cars in the world Mini Honda Nissan to name a few, the workers were to blame for sure, but the biggest part of the blame lays with the inept management who ran the plants and the failure of the government to deal with the unions.

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.

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toby1234abc:
Because the English factory workers were lazy and work shy and would drop tools for any reason,the English cars were rubbish,the Montego,Metro,Allegro and so on,poorly made by a blind man,would break down,let the rain in on a summers day,make weird rattling noises.

If there was any laziness it was more a case of they pretend to pay us so we pretend to work and zb cars like the Allegro were just a reflection of the nation’s buying power at the time because unlike the 1960’s and early 1970’s not many people could afford to buy or run something like a decent 6 cylinder Ford,Triumph or Jag or a V8 Rover instead.

The only difference between then and and now is that the workers haven’t got the bottle to stand up for themselves and probably wouldn’t get anywhere even if they did because of Maggie’s idea of oversupplying the labour market.So all they’ll probably be able to afford in the mdium to long term future,if things keep going the way they are,will probably be a bike if they’re lucky instead of even an Allegro. :unamused:

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mike68:

toby1234abc:
Because the English factory workers were lazy and work shy and would drop tools for any reason,the English cars were rubbish,the Montego,Metro,Allegro and so on,poorly made by a blind man,would break down,let the rain in on a summers day,make weird rattling noises.

You speak the truth, when I was 18 my father had a 2.0 Montego if you pulled out of a juntion and accelerated the steering had to be forcibly turned back to the centre over 80 M.P.H the bonnet would flap about and two hands were needed on the wheel.

A scary piece of junk, we now build some of the finest mass produced cars in the world Mini Honda Nissan to name a few, the workers were to blame for sure, but the biggest part of the blame lays with the inept management who ran the plants and the failure of the government to deal with the unions.

Depends on your definition of ‘finest’ mass produced cars.You can keep your massed produced Mini,Honda,or Nissan and I’ll keep my mass produced BL built Jag thanks. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

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Carryfast:

mike68:

toby1234abc:
Because the English factory workers were lazy and work shy and would drop tools for any reason,the English cars were rubbish,the Montego,Metro,Allegro and so on,poorly made by a blind man,would break down,let the rain in on a summers day,make weird rattling noises.

You speak the truth, when I was 18 my father had a 2.0 Montego if you pulled out of a juntion and accelerated the steering had to be forcibly turned back to the centre over 80 M.P.H the bonnet would flap about and two hands were needed on the wheel.

A scary piece of junk, we now build some of the finest mass produced cars in the world Mini Honda Nissan to name a few, the workers were to blame for sure, but the biggest part of the blame lays with the inept management who ran the plants and the failure of the government to deal with the unions.

Depends on your definition of ‘finest’ mass produced cars.You can keep your massed produced Mini,Honda,or Nissan and I’ll keep my mass produced BL built Jag thanks. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

I’d like to take this opportunity to pay homage to your most excellent sense of humor.

18

mike68:

Carryfast:

mike68:

toby1234abc:
Because the English factory workers were lazy and work shy and would drop tools for any reason,the English cars were rubbish,the Montego,Metro,Allegro and so on,poorly made by a blind man,would break down,let the rain in on a summers day,make weird rattling noises.

You speak the truth, when I was 18 my father had a 2.0 Montego if you pulled out of a juntion and accelerated the steering had to be forcibly turned back to the centre over 80 M.P.H the bonnet would flap about and two hands were needed on the wheel.

A scary piece of junk, we now build some of the finest mass produced cars in the world Mini Honda Nissan to name a few, the workers were to blame for sure, but the biggest part of the blame lays with the inept management who ran the plants and the failure of the government to deal with the unions.

Depends on your definition of ‘finest’ mass produced cars.You can keep your massed produced Mini,Honda,or Nissan and I’ll keep my mass produced BL built Jag thanks. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

I’d like to take this opportunity to pay homage to your most excellent sense of humor.

Makes me wonder if he really has a BL built Jag. :smiley:

I had 2, plus I used to help out a guy who run a restoration business, specialising in Jags, we also worked on other cars.

I saw many BL built XJ’s and XJS’s I very soon knew where to look for the problems as they almost all seemed to have the same thing go wrong and rust in the same places.

We had a XJ12 Coupe in built in the mid 70’s and a similar aged Merc Coupe. The difference you didn’t get wet and deaf because of the gaps between the pillarless windows and roof in the Merc and you didn’t crick you back trying to reach round for the seatbelts because of the long doors. The Mercedes seat belt came to meet you, really cool and showed some properly funded R&D.

My first Jag was a 1984 XJ6 4.2 from a distance it didn’t look to bad for a 10 year old car, but it had started suffering from most of the XJ Jag rust problems. At the same time my Brother had a 1983 7 series BMW, it was better specced and far better built than the Jag, the only thing the Jag had going for it really was the ride comfort.

Looking at the two cars and seeing a few of the Mercs of a similar age that used to come in, it was obvious that the XJ series had suffered from years of under development compared to the German competition.

I then bought what was known as an XJ40, the XJ6 replacement with the large square light. It was obviously Jags desperate attempt to catch up to BMW, Mercs etc. True it had all the gizzmos that you 80’s exec expected, but the problems they caused showed a serious lack of development.

Problems were. Self leveling suspension, so crap that Jag junk it. I had to replace it with a standard Spring and damper set.
The Accumulator that fed the brakes and suspension, failed and very expensive to replace.
Door Handles that broke so regularly that trying to get one from a specialist breaker was almost impossible.
The boot lid that rots, again almost impossible to get one from a breaker, so we rebuilt it with new metal.
and more computer glitches than using Windows Vista.

Don’t get me wrong I love Jags of that era and had they been allowed to be properly funded and properly managed instead of resting on their past reputation, they would have been a match for any German Executive Car.

As for the lazy workforce probably true, but considering the quality of the cars we now produce for foreign companies, compared to other Countries, including Germany, you’ve got to think that poor management had something to do with it.

19

muckles:

mike68:

Carryfast:

mike68:

toby1234abc:
Because the English factory workers were lazy and work shy and would drop tools for any reason,the English cars were rubbish,the Montego,Metro,Allegro and so on,poorly made by a blind man,would break down,let the rain in on a summers day,make weird rattling noises.

You speak the truth, when I was 18 my father had a 2.0 Montego if you pulled out of a juntion and accelerated the steering had to be forcibly turned back to the centre over 80 M.P.H the bonnet would flap about and two hands were needed on the wheel.

A scary piece of junk, we now build some of the finest mass produced cars in the world Mini Honda Nissan to name a few, the workers were to blame for sure, but the biggest part of the blame lays with the inept management who ran the plants and the failure of the government to deal with the unions.

Depends on your definition of ‘finest’ mass produced cars.You can keep your massed produced Mini,Honda,or Nissan and I’ll keep my mass produced BL built Jag thanks. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

I’d like to take this opportunity to pay homage to your most excellent sense of humor.

Makes me wonder if he really has a BL built Jag. :smiley:

I had 2, plus I used to help out a guy who run a restoration business, specialising in Jags, we also worked on other cars.

I saw many BL built XJ’s and XJS’s I very soon knew where to look for the problems as they almost all seemed to have the same thing go wrong and rust in the same places.

We had a XJ12 Coupe in built in the mid 70’s and a similar aged Merc Coupe. The difference you didn’t get wet and deaf because of the gaps between the pillarless windows and roof in the Merc and you didn’t crick you back trying to reach round for the seatbelts because of the long doors. The Mercedes seat belt came to meet you, really cool and showed some properly funded R&D.

My first Jag was a 1984 XJ6 4.2 from a distance it didn’t look to bad for a 10 year old car, but it had started suffering from most of the XJ Jag rust problems. At the same time my Brother had a 1983 7 series BMW, it was better specced and far better built than the Jag, the only thing the Jag had going for it really was the ride comfort.

Looking at the two cars and seeing a few of the Mercs of a similar age that used to come in, it was obvious that the XJ series had suffered from years of under development compared to the German competition.

I then bought what was known as an XJ40, the XJ6 replacement with the large square light. It was obviously Jags desperate attempt to catch up to BMW, Mercs etc. True it had all the gizzmos that you 80’s exec expected, but the problems they caused showed a serious lack of development.

Problems were. Self leveling suspension, so crap that Jag junk it. I had to replace it with a standard Spring and damper set.
The Accumulator that fed the brakes and suspension, failed and very expensive to replace.
Door Handles that broke so regularly that trying to get one from a specialist breaker was almost impossible.
The boot lid that rots, again almost impossible to get one from a breaker, so we rebuilt it with new metal.
and more computer glitches than using Windows Vista.

Don’t get me wrong I love Jags of that era and had they been allowed to be properly funded and properly managed instead of resting on their past reputation, they would have been a match for any German Executive Car.

As for the lazy workforce probably true, but considering the quality of the cars we now produce for foreign companies, compared to other Countries, including Germany, you’ve got to think that poor management had something to do with it.

The XJ series 3 actually had/has a better wishbone front and at least a better lower wishbone/drive shaft IRS than the old BMW McPherson struts and semi trailing arm rear which you’d have found on a much cheaper Triumph 2.5 of the 1960’s although at least the Triumph,like the Jag,had rack and pinion steering unlike the 1950’s Ford type steering box lash up on the Mercs or the BMW’s.

I had a BMW 3.0 and the fact is like all the rest of them the thing was rusting away at 7 years old and needed plenty of welding at that age whereas my 1984 series 3 XJ 12 hasn’t,yet,needed any which is why you won’t find many E3’s left now unlike the Jag XJ’s of the same era.

So you’re saying that a 1970’s-early 1980’s XJ12 wasn’t/isn’t a match for a 3.0 Litre E3 or 3.5 Litre 735 BMW of the time not forgetting that the BMW actually costed more when they were new. :open_mouth:

Put a 6.0 Litre engine and 5 speed manual box in the Jag,which mine’s got,and even a 3.5-3.8 Litre 24 valve M5 of the time or later wouldn’t even see the thing’s tail lights on an unlimited stretch of autobahn on the German heaps’ home turf.

But then anyone who knows anything about Jags knows that the XJ40 isn’t as good as the older ( mostly Leyland built ) XJ series 1/2/3. :unamused:

20

muckles:
Makes me wonder if he really has a BL built Jag. :smiley:

I had 2, plus I used to help out a guy who run a restoration business, specialising in Jags, we also worked on other cars.

I saw many BL built XJ’s and XJS’s I very soon knew where to look for the problems as they almost all seemed to have the same thing go wrong and rust in the same places.

We had a XJ12 Coupe in built in the mid 70’s and a similar aged Merc Coupe. The difference you didn’t get wet and deaf because of the gaps between the pillarless windows and roof in the Merc and you didn’t crick you back trying to reach round for the seatbelts because of the long doors. The Mercedes seat belt came to meet you, really cool and showed some properly funded R&D.

My first Jag was a 1984 XJ6 4.2 from a distance it didn’t look to bad for a 10 year old car, but it had started suffering from most of the XJ Jag rust problems. At the same time my Brother had a 1983 7 series BMW, it was better specced and far better built than the Jag, the only thing the Jag had going for it really was the ride comfort.

Looking at the two cars and seeing a few of the Mercs of a similar age that used to come in, it was obvious that the XJ series had suffered from years of under development compared to the German competition.

I then bought what was known as an XJ40, the XJ6 replacement with the large square light. It was obviously Jags desperate attempt to catch up to BMW, Mercs etc. True it had all the gizzmos that you 80’s exec expected, but the problems they caused showed a serious lack of development.

Problems were. Self leveling suspension, so crap that Jag junk it. I had to replace it with a standard Spring and damper set.
The Accumulator that fed the brakes and suspension, failed and very expensive to replace.
Door Handles that broke so regularly that trying to get one from a specialist breaker was almost impossible.
The boot lid that rots, again almost impossible to get one from a breaker, so we rebuilt it with new metal.
and more computer glitches than using Windows Vista.

Don’t get me wrong I love Jags of that era and had they been allowed to be properly funded and properly managed instead of resting on their past reputation, they would have been a match for any German Executive Car.

As for the lazy workforce probably true, but considering the quality of the cars we now produce for foreign companies, compared to other Countries, including Germany, you’ve got to think that poor management had something to do with it.

Carryfast:
The XJ series 3 actually had/has a better wishbone front and at least a better lower wishbone/drive shaft IRS than the old BMW McPherson struts and semi trailing arm rear which you’d have found on a much cheaper Triumph 2.5 of the 1960’s although at least the Triumph,like the Jag,had rack and pinion steering unlike the 1950’s Ford type steering box lash up on the Mercs or the BMW’s.

the only thing the Jag had going for it really was the ride comfort.

Carryfast:
I had a BMW 3.0 and the fact is like all the rest of them the thing was rusting away at 7 years old and needed plenty of welding at that age whereas my 1984 series 3 XJ 12 hasn’t,yet,needed any which is why you won’t find many E3’s left now unlike the Jag XJ’s of the same era.

Never mentioned E3’s

Carryfast:
So you’re saying that a 1970’s-early 1980’s XJ12 wasn’t/isn’t a match for a 3.0 Litre E3 or 3.5 Litre 735 BMW of the time not forgetting that the BMW actually costed more when they were new. :open_mouth:

If you’re talking about performance then maybe not, but the V12 is a 5.3l compared to a 3.0l or 3.5l. But if you’re talking about development and build quality then from what I saw Yes.

Carryfast:
Put a 6.0 Litre engine and 5 speed manual box in the Jag,which mine’s got,and even a 3.5-3.8 Litre 24 valve M5 of the time or later wouldn’t even see the thing’s tail lights on an unlimited stretch of autobahn on the German heaps’ home turf.

Your Jag sounds great, but it’s modified not standard so you cannot compare with the same stuff of the era, but my argument had more to do with lack of decent R&D and build quality.

Carryfast:
But then anyone who knows anything about Jags knows that the XJ40 isn’t as good as the older ( mostly Leyland built ) XJ series 1/2/3. :unamused:

I think I pretty much covered the problems with the XJ40 which was developed during the BL era and never said it was better than the old XJ series.

For all the faults I actually really liked my Jags and I’d have another XJ as a classic car, but only if I couldn’t afford an E type, but I’m not so blinkered that I couldn’t see the limitations of them.