Im getting confused now! So, the borderer I drove, (250 Cu and a fuller roadranger) couldnt have had a 13 speed in? So, was I right in what I was origionally thinking I had a 10 speed? Which is why I thought the one in the pic had a 10 speed?
this is me right now! 
No Mal, the small-engined motors (205 & 220 ■■■■■■■ and 150 & 180 Gardners) had the RT-610 10-speed box or David Brown 600 6-speed.
The 250 ■■■■■■■ and 240 Gardner were usually mated to the Fuller RTO-9509A (‘Roadranger’) or (briefly) the David Brown 8-speed; the latter wasn’t a great success by all accounts and not many were used in Borderers.
When you go up the ladder still further to the turbocharged ■■■■■■■ (290 & 335) or the big Rolls-Royce (280 Eagle) then you move into 13-speed Fuller territory.
ZF boxes were also used (but not many, and Eaton axles were also used.
I wish I had a time machine! or even a better memory!
Mal:
I wish I had a time machine! or even a better memory!
Or an Atki
Yepp, especially the one Im on about, it’s caused a right polaver on here!
Mal:
Yepp, especially the one Im on about, it’s caused a right polaver on here!
It certainly has! And no bad thing either 
as anyone got any interior pics of the sleeper cab model and what is the most power someone has got outtaone and one last question what would an half decent one cost to buy today.
Just a cab on it’s own (day cab) can cost up to £8,000 all in…
Add to that the cost of a new or refurbished engine, gearbox, back axle, PAS, braking system, wiring loom, lighting set, chassis rebuild and fifth wheel.
What you can’t put a price on is the labour that goes into a job like that. They rolled off the line at a fraction of the price that one could be built for now.
I have some interior pictures of a Nightingale sleeper somewhere - it’s not remotely near what would be considered a sleeper these days though.
Using reconditioned mechanicals I’d say £25K+ for a proper job if you haven’t got favours in the trade to call in…
marky:
I have some interior pictures of a Nightingale sleeper somewhere - it’s not remotely near what would be considered a sleeper these days though.
That’d be interesting if you find it Marky, if it’s what I had at Econofreight they were narrow, even with the drop down extension after the seats were shoved forward, and high up. Awkward to get into and you didn’t want to be turning over too much in the night .
But, they were state of the art at the time for the UK and we thought we were very well off compared to most people in their day cabs.
When the F88/89s came along the bunk wasn’t much wider but it didn’t need unfolding and it was much lower down in the cab. Mine at Whitetrux had no passenger seat, giving the impression of a really roomy cab.
Salut, David.
Spardo:
marky:
I have some interior pictures of a Nightingale sleeper somewhere - it’s not remotely near what would be considered a sleeper these days though.That’d be interesting if you find it Marky, if it’s what I had at Econofreight they were narrow, even with the drop down extension after the seats were shoved forward, and high up. Awkward to get into and you didn’t want to be turning over too much in the night
But, they were state of the art at the time for the UK and we thought we were very well off compared to most people in their day cabs.
When the F88/89s came along the bunk wasn’t much wider but it didn’t need unfolding and it was much lower down in the cab. Mine at Whitetrux had no passenger seat, giving the impression of a really roomy cab.Salut, David.
Actually, although the Riding sleeper was of similar proportions to the Nightingale, you didn’t need to fold down the bunk: the Riding solution was to move the passenger seat forward to make room for the bunk and then just narrow the bunk behind the driver’s seat. Perhaps if you slotted your feet into the narrow bit behind the seat you couldn’t fall out of bed!!
Like the Nightingale (actually a conversion of a finished cab by Ellis & Son, Coachbuilders, of Tonbridge on behalf of Atkinson Vehicles, London depot, and NOT a factory build), the Riding conversion had a one-piece roof, but differed by having larger rear windows and by not having an extra pair of cab mountings to support the rear of the extended cab.
Either way, still a better bet than the Volvo F6 day cab that I once spent a week in in 1984: with its fold down bunk, you had to get everything out of the cab via the passenger door, bedding and all, whilst you folded the one-piece bunk down!
Carl:
as anyone got any interior pics of the sleeper cab model and what is the most power someone has got outtaone and one last question what would an half decent one cost to buy today.
To add to Marky’s usual comprehensive reply, I think that the Godbold Atki is the most powerful one out there at 350bhp, unless anyone knows different?
The highest catalogued factory rating was 335 bhp in late model Venturers (double-drive units) plated at 75 tons.
The highest rating listed for a Borderer (4x2 unit) was 280bhp with a Rolls Eagle. The top ■■■■■■■ option was the 14-litre naturally aspirated 250, which actually delivered 228bhp. Not a huge amount more than a 180 Gardner!
The top Gardner offering was the 8LXB, which pumped out 244.89 bhp at the flywheel.
marky:
The top Gardner offering was the 8LXB, which pumped out 244.89 bhp at the flywheel.
approximately… 
240 Gardner:
marky:
The top Gardner offering was the 8LXB, which pumped out 244.89 bhp at the flywheel.approximately…
And couldn’t pull a gypsy off his mam.
Viking:
240 Gardner:
marky:
The top Gardner offering was the 8LXB, which pumped out 244.89 bhp at the flywheel.approximately…
And couldn’t pull a gypsy off his mam.
so you must have had a duff one!
And couldn’t pull a gypsy off his mam.
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so you must have had a duff one!
[/quote]
When I was working nights doing ‘flyers’ I used to knock Suttons straight 8s off (doing the flyers as well) no problems with a 2200 Daf fully freighted at 32t as was the legal limit in the 70’. I have used the straight 8 in ERFs at Cabmont and NorthWest Freighters when I worked there…I was never a big fan of them…I would much rather have a ■■■■■■■ or a Roller myself.
Viking:
And couldn’t pull a gypsy off his mam.
so you must have had a duff one!
[/quote]
When I was working nights doing ‘flyers’ I used to knock Suttons straight 8s off (doing the flyers as well) no problems with a 2200 Daf fully freighted at 32t as was the legal limit in the 70’. I have used the straight 8 in ERFs at Cabmont and NorthWest Freighters when I worked there…I was never a big fan of them…I would much rather have a ■■■■■■■ or a Roller myself.
[/quote]
ah, each to their own…
And Cabmont, a blast from the past! I used to have many dealings with Murray Cables in his post-Cabmont days
Viking:
…I was never a big fan of them…I would much rather have a ■■■■■■■ or a Roller myself.
Can’t agree Viking, I had a straight 8 in my first motor at Econofreight in '78 or ‘79. It was in a steel cabbed Foden with the extra length in a nose extension, unlike the Atkis which shoved it out the back. Coupled to a Foden 12-speed box nothing could touch it for pulling power amongst the ■■■■■■■ engined Borderers. Mind you the gearbox may have had something to do with it. But, it had no sleeper, so when I was ‘promoted’ to the only Borderer with power steering and a bunk I was ■■■■ o’ the walk
Salut, David.
And Cabmont, a blast from the past! I used to have many dealings with Murray Cables in his post-Cabmont days
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I worked for Cabmont for 11 years and I haven’t got one photo. I always said to myself…especially when it had been a night of freezing fog that I would take my camera and get some photos of the build-up of ice on the mirror arms and the front of the cab after my shift…up to 8" + some nights but I never got 'round to it.
The good old days■■? 
My Dad worked for H&R Ainscough then Allied Mills for a total of 23 years and also never took a single picture. All their fleet was straight-8 until the E290 ■■■■■■■ started to be supplied in the ERF C-Series. The fleet engineer fought a long and bitter internal battle to keep running Gardner sadly to no avail.
As a result the vehicle replacement was stretched from 3 years to 6 years to get every last penny out of them, seeing as the 2nd hand value was so poor compared the Gardner-engined equivelents.