Moose I must know you and your mate, I drove for STB as you can see from my avatar pic! D series Ford’s were owned by Chris Lowndes, Bernard Barker, Mick Yeomans, Andrew Brassinton and Norry Irving etc, which one are you related to?
Pete.
JCL was was my grandad, chris is my old chap
When I was at “Pickfords” we had 3 Atkinson’s at Sheffield depot JLD705K a venturer with a 240 “percy” and a 10 speed fuller box and 2 viewlines with 250 (14Lt )■■■■■■■ and 6 speed ZF boxes the Venturer was better than WGC 625G but mine EMD518J would leave both of them behind with the same loads on and this was running around 60 tons gross and it was nearly as good as the percy on fuel and no where near as smokey 
cheers Johnnie
8LXBV8BRIAN:
kevmac47:
Without a doubt ■■■■■■■■ that 14ltr lump still performs magic,well ahead of its time and it sounds fantastic.No doubt the gardner boys will be sticking their oar in but whatever happened to Gardner?? PS. ■■■■■■■ are still around.So why have you never run one Kevin i know how much you like them.
If you remember Brian we went to look at one at Skipton many years ago but it wasn’t quite right, also when I was starting again in 2005 I looked at an ERF ecx with a ■■■■■■■■ the salesman didn’t want to sell it to me as I lived out of his area and he would lose out on the sale of spares, as I would get them from N/cle rather than Hull. Regards Kevin. PS. You bought a german bedford rather than a Gardner engined motor!!!
Moose:
JCL was was my grandad, chris is my old chap
Got you! Hope that Chris is keeping ok, I recall the day that he got his arm scalded with Hot Rolled Asphalt when loading one day, nasty. 
Remember me to him, Pete Barker’s the name.
Pete.
windrush:
Moose I must know you and your mate, I drove for STB as you can see from my avatar pic! D series Ford’s were owned by Chris Lowndes, Bernard Barker, Mick Yeomans, Andrew Brassinton and Norry Irving etc, which one are you related to?Hiya …andrew brassington Is that the one from wyston area■■?.i used to muck around ashbourne with him years ago.
do you remember the dodges the andy and burf had. i think they started the spot light thing going. burford had about
15 spotlights on that yellow dodge and brasso had nealy as many. That was in the early 70,s whats brasso doing these days■■?
it was antique pine the last i heard of him.
John
Wheel Nut:
I am not having a go, just misunderstanding the definition of block changing
These days most manual box’s only have 12 forward gears (Volvo Scania & the latest ZF box in the Daf) which, other than empty, negates the need for “block changes” but in the days of 16spd box’s there was absolutely no need to use every cog in the box.
Last week I had to do a few days driving in our 470 Scania and found loaded (on the flat) the best sequence was to pull away in 2nd low (split) to 3rd high, into ‘high range’ 1st (still in high split) then, 2nd low, then split up & down each gear to the top.
Empty ‘block changes’ pull away 3rd low, straight to high range 1st high, take the revs to the top of the green and into top (low split), my thoughts are that ‘the less movements of the gear lever the better’, that said, I totally agree that the rev counter needle should be kept in the green. This can be done best IMHO on a 16 speed box, block shifting can be done right up to6th or 7th keeping it ‘in the green’ all the way.
Ross.
bigr250:
Wheel Nut:
I am not having a go, just misunderstanding the definition of block changingThese days most manual box’s only have 12 forward gears (Volvo Scania & the latest ZF box in the Daf) which, other than empty, negates the need for “block changes” but in the days of 16spd box’s there was absolutely no need to use every cog in the box.
Last week I had to do a few days driving in our 470 Scania and found loaded (on the flat) the best sequence was to pull away in 2nd low (split) to 3rd high, into ‘high range’ 1st (still in high split) then, 2nd low, then split up & down each gear to the top.
Empty ‘block changes’ pull away 3rd low, straight to high range 1st high, take the revs to the top of the green and into top (low split), my thoughts are that ‘the less movements of the gear lever the better’, that said, I totally agree that the rev counter needle should be kept in the green. This can be done best IMHO on a 16 speed box, block shifting can be done right up to6th or 7th keeping it ‘in the green’ all the way.
Ross.
Seems to be some confusion between block changes and skip shifting.Block changing is usually meant only in the context of downshifts loaded or empty and means what it says in that you’re just braking in a relatively high gear and then just putting the thing into whatever gear is needed to pull away again with.Which effectively can result in the stupid situation of just using the brakes to brake down from 50 mph +,in a relatively high gear,including top,and then putting it into a relatively much lower one to pull away again.
Common sense says that puts ecessive stresses on the drive line and you lose all of the engine braking which you would have got by downshifting sequentially although having said that,that does’nt mean downshifting sequentially using every gear in an 18,16 speed,or 13 speed box.
kevmac47:
8LXBV8BRIAN:
kevmac47:
Without a doubt ■■■■■■■■ that 14ltr lump still performs magic,well ahead of its time and it sounds fantastic.No doubt the gardner boys will be sticking their oar in but whatever happened to Gardner?? PS. ■■■■■■■ are still around.So why have you never run one Kevin i know how much you like them.
If you remember Brian we went to look at one at Skipton many years ago but it wasn’t quite right, also when I was starting again in 2005 I looked at an ERF ecx with a ■■■■■■■■ the salesman didn’t want to sell it to me as I lived out of his area and he would lose out on the sale of spares, as I would get them from N/cle rather than Hull. Regards Kevin. PS. You bought a german bedford rather than a Gardner engined motor!!!
HJR 451L would have been a little long in the tooth by then as that was the only 240 Gardner i would have wanted
,and after seeing how fantastic the MERCEDES V8 engine was in the early MERCS that we had at Waugh’s, it had to be a SK V8 which
in a lot of ways reminded me of the old Atkinson Big ■■■■■■■ straight 8 the sound it made and the different sound the
big V8 Mercedes made a lovely wuffle sound.
Go back to the 1973-80 years i would have had the 8 cylinder Gardner above the 14ltr ■■■■■■■ 250 and the 290 turbo
which for me was a lovely engine remember the one Waugh’s had the whistle of the turbo .
Would i have taken a merc engine over the 8LXB Gardner not at 250 or 260 as the Gardner was the better pulling motor
but thats just my opinion.
To be honest Kevin the old motors could still do London in the same time as the new ones today you just arrive a little more relaxed but a bit less involved in how you got there.
Carryfast:
bigr250:
Wheel Nut:
I am not having a go, just misunderstanding the definition of block changingThese days most manual box’s only have 12 forward gears (Volvo Scania & the latest ZF box in the Daf) which, other than empty, negates the need for “block changes” but in the days of 16spd box’s there was absolutely no need to use every cog in the box.
Last week I had to do a few days driving in our 470 Scania and found loaded (on the flat) the best sequence was to pull away in 2nd low (split) to 3rd high, into ‘high range’ 1st (still in high split) then, 2nd low, then split up & down each gear to the top.
Empty ‘block changes’ pull away 3rd low, straight to high range 1st high, take the revs to the top of the green and into top (low split), my thoughts are that ‘the less movements of the gear lever the better’, that said, I totally agree that the rev counter needle should be kept in the green. This can be done best IMHO on a 16 speed box, block shifting can be done right up to6th or 7th keeping it ‘in the green’ all the way.
Ross.
Seems to be some confusion between block changes and skip shifting.Block changing is usually meant only in the context of downshifts loaded or empty and means what it says in that you’re just braking in a relatively high gear and then just putting the thing into whatever gear is needed to pull away again with.Which effectively can result in the stupid situation of just using the brakes to brake down from 50 mph +,in a relatively high gear,including top,and then putting it into a relatively much lower one to pull away again.
Common sense says that puts ecessive stresses on the drive line and you lose all of the engine braking which you would have got by downshifting sequentially although having said that,that does’nt mean downshifting sequentially using every gear in an 18,16 speed,or 13 speed box.
18 months and we finally agree on something, that is what I was getting at. 
Ross. I drove a 3300 with ecosplit, it was like being in a cheap disco with the dancing lamps on the dash
Carryfast:
Seems to be some confusion between block changes and skip shifting.Block changing is usually meant only in the context of downshifts loaded or empty and means what it says in that you’re just braking in a relatively high gear and then just putting the thing into whatever gear is needed to pull away again with.Which effectively can result in the stupid situation of just using the brakes to brake down from 50 mph +,in a relatively high gear,including top,and then putting it into a relatively much lower one to pull away again.Common sense says that puts ecessive stresses on the drive line and you lose all of the engine braking which you would have got by downshifting sequentially although having said that,that does’nt mean downshifting sequentially using every gear in an 18,16 speed,or 13 speed box.
Block changing/Skip Shifting is just splitting hairs we all know what drivers are referring to when either/or is mentioned.
Re. Straining drivelines when block changing down; With an exhaust/engine brake, you let the revs drop out of the green band and the EB will practically splutter and stop, any driver worth his license would know then to drop a couple of gears, causing the revs to rise hence an increase in EB efficiency. Carrfast, I suggest you drive a loaded Foden tipper down Fish Hill at Broadway; if your brakes smell by the time your at Willersey Roundabout, you’ve not used the EB and gearbox properly…
Muckaway:
pete 359:
hi all,
the 1980’s and 1990’s sk merc. v8’s were a bomb proof engine in my opinion.
regards andrewMy uncles’ best mate drives a H reg Merc SKV8. He’s told his boss he’ll retire if he retires the Merc
Does he work for Mr Henderson 
I would have loved to have seen how a properly developed AEC V8 would have performed if they had been given the funds and also the AV760 maybe DAF should have taken a look at them when Paccar bought Leyland
M G b:
Muckaway:
pete 359:
hi all,
the 1980’s and 1990’s sk merc. v8’s were a bomb proof engine in my opinion.
regards andrewMy uncles’ best mate drives a H reg Merc SKV8. He’s told his boss he’ll retire if he retires the Merc
Does he work for Mr Henderson
He does indeed, Mr Pete Horne Saw him this morning near North Aston…for a change my uncle wasn’t with him!
8LXBV8BRIAN:
kevmac47:
8LXBV8BRIAN:
kevmac47:
Without a doubt ■■■■■■■■ that 14ltr lump still performs magic,well ahead of its time and it sounds fantastic.No doubt the gardner boys will be sticking their oar in but whatever happened to Gardner?? PS. ■■■■■■■ are still around.So why have you never run one Kevin i know how much you like them.
If you remember Brian we went to look at one at Skipton many years ago but it wasn’t quite right, also when I was starting again in 2005 I looked at an ERF ecx with a ■■■■■■■■ the salesman didn’t want to sell it to me as I lived out of his area and he would lose out on the sale of spares, as I would get them from N/cle rather than Hull. Regards Kevin. PS. You bought a german bedford rather than a Gardner engined motor!!!
HJR 451L would have been a little long in the tooth by then as that was the only 240 Gardner i would have wanted
,and after seeing how fantastic the MERCEDES V8 engine was in the early MERCS that we had at Waugh’s, it had to be a SK V8 which
in a lot of ways reminded me of the old Atkinson Big ■■■■■■■ straight 8 the sound it made and the different sound the
big V8 Mercedes made a lovely wuffle sound.
Go back to the 1973-80 years i would have had the 8 cylinder Gardner above the 14ltr ■■■■■■■ 250 and the 290 turbo
which for me was a lovely engine remember the one Waugh’s had the whistle of the turbo .
Would i have taken a merc engine over the 8LXB Gardner not at 250 or 260 as the Gardner was the better pulling motor
but thats just my opinion.
To be honest Kevin the old motors could still do London in the same time as the new ones today you just arrive a little more relaxed but a bit less involved in how you got there.
Got to agree with you about the time angle Brian, In the days when we could drive five and a half hours without a break, I could drive from home (Wardley) to Scratchwood now Gateway on the M1 in one hit with
a 21t payload on four axles with my 220■■■■■■■■ I know I would not be able to do the same now. Regards Kevin
Muckaway:
Carryfast:
Seems to be some confusion between block changes and skip shifting.Block changing is usually meant only in the context of downshifts loaded or empty and means what it says in that you’re just braking in a relatively high gear and then just putting the thing into whatever gear is needed to pull away again with.Which effectively can result in the stupid situation of just using the brakes to brake down from 50 mph +,in a relatively high gear,including top,and then putting it into a relatively much lower one to pull away again.Common sense says that puts ecessive stresses on the drive line and you lose all of the engine braking which you would have got by downshifting sequentially although having said that,that does’nt mean downshifting sequentially using every gear in an 18,16 speed,or 13 speed box.
Block changing/Skip Shifting is just splitting hairs we all know what drivers are referring to when either/or is mentioned.
Re. Straining drivelines when block changing down; With an exhaust/engine brake, you let the revs drop out of the green band and the EB will practically splutter and stop, any driver worth his license would know then to drop a couple of gears, causing the revs to rise hence an increase in EB efficiency. Carrfast, I suggest you drive a loaded Foden tipper down Fish Hill at Broadway; if your brakes smell by the time your at Willersey Roundabout, you’ve not used the EB and gearbox properly…
Muckaway mate. I am not being pedantic about the name, nor am I agreeing blindly with Carryfast, god forbid!
My thread began life in the economy thread and I was told in no uncertain terms by “instructors” that what you suggest above is wrong, even though we both know it is the way to use the engine to slow down. The modern way apparently is to bring a truck to a halt in top gear, using only the brakes. The older and in my opinion more correct way is to slow the vehicle using, gears, engine braking and good observation. Forget all this brakes are for slowing, gears are for going malarkey
I think it is more correct to think, gears are for slowing and going, brakes are for stopping
Gardner, without doubt. The only other engine to come close is a ■■■■■■■■ CATs are fine when they are new, but never the same after a rebuild, and nver last very long before needing another one!
Going back to the best engines for me it was the iveco 14 litres engine the 360 / 380 / 420 were indestructible , last of the real engines before all this computerised junk they make nowadays. I can not think of one modern engine that i would be happy about owning.
Wheel Nut:
Muckaway:
Carryfast:
Seems to be some confusion between block changes and skip shifting.Block changing is usually meant only in the context of downshifts loaded or empty and means what it says in that you’re just braking in a relatively high gear and then just putting the thing into whatever gear is needed to pull away again with.Which effectively can result in the stupid situation of just using the brakes to brake down from 50 mph +,in a relatively high gear,including top,and then putting it into a relatively much lower one to pull away again.Common sense says that puts ecessive stresses on the drive line and you lose all of the engine braking which you would have got by downshifting sequentially although having said that,that does’nt mean downshifting sequentially using every gear in an 18,16 speed,or 13 speed box.
Block changing/Skip Shifting is just splitting hairs we all know what drivers are referring to when either/or is mentioned.
Re. Straining drivelines when block changing down; With an exhaust/engine brake, you let the revs drop out of the green band and the EB will practically splutter and stop, any driver worth his license would know then to drop a couple of gears, causing the revs to rise hence an increase in EB efficiency. Carrfast, I suggest you drive a loaded Foden tipper down Fish Hill at Broadway; if your brakes smell by the time your at Willersey Roundabout, you’ve not used the EB and gearbox properly…Muckaway mate. I am not being pedantic about the name, nor am I agreeing blindly with Carryfast, god forbid!
My thread began life in the economy thread and I was told in no uncertain terms by “instructors” that what you suggest above is wrong, even though we both know it is the way to use the engine to slow down. The modern way apparently is to bring a truck to a halt in top gear, using only the brakes. The older and in my opinion more correct way is to slow the vehicle using, gears, engine braking and good observation. Forget all this brakes are for slowing, gears are for going malarkey
I think it is more correct to think, gears are for slowing and going, brakes are for stopping
Blimey there could never be any chance of us ever being described as agreeing blindly on anything .But I had exactly that same argument with all of my instructors (and Rog on here) when I did both my licences in 1980 and then 1985.So I don’t understand Muckaway’s comments because the two types of using a box (block changing or skip shifting) are as different as chalk and cheese.If Muckaway checks out the last time I had that same argument on here with Rog he’ll see that Rog,like all those modern day ‘advanced driving’ lot,thought that an exhaust brake is only effective at high speed in high gears .
The relevant bit Muckaway is that I argued the case that doing it Rog’s (and my instructors’) ‘advanced’ way would actually mean going off the M1 at junction 40, heading along that dual carriageway to Dewsbury,and leave it in around top and just use the brakes to slow down from around 50 mph for the roundabouts and then just downshift a 12 speed constant mesh ZF,in an old 1970’s DAF 2800 loaded at around 30 tonnes gross,from around 11th straight down into around 3rd or 2nd,depending if something is coming round the roundabout or not,so at best we’ve now got zb hot brakes and at worst we’ve got hot brakes and a pile of what’s left of the gearbox spread across the road .But assuming that the gearbox survived there’s a big hill a bit further along the road and the town hall is placed perfectly just in case the brakes got too hot the last time I used them slowing down for those roundabouts .
Rog’s reply to all that was something like every situation is different 
.But I’d bet that he’d have failed me for using the brakes and sequential downshifts with the exhaust brake for those roundabouts,just like all the other roundabouts,assuming that I’d have been unlucky enough to have done my tests with him,or any of my instructors,as the examiner.
It was my Dad who taught me that gears (and an exhaust brake if you’ve got one) are for slowing and going and brakes are for slowing and stopping.He also taught me that you never go down a hill in a higher gear than you’d use to go up it.But Rog,or my instructors,never did drive a Diamond T with a tank on the back in the mountains and hills of Austria and Yugoslavia.
youtube.com/watch?v=9_9kZB5- … ur=related
versus homepage.ntlworld.com/raywoods/f … idance.pdf 
It looks like even the so called advanced experts can’t make their mind up about what to do about the inherent contradictions contained in the idea of block changing when they are saying that if the thing is in a high gear the drive line will be pulling against the brakes as it slows down but they’ll also fail someone for using engine braking.I can remember Rog saying something about coasting by de clutching the thing in that case which they’ve said here can also be unacceptable.But they also seem to have forgot that an exhaust brake is’nt much use if you’re not going to use the lower gears to provide the engine braking to allow the thing to work
But you’ll probably not be prepared to agree with the idea that the yanks have got it right as usual,for once.
Oh dear, I must completely change the way I drive…
Anyway, I’ve not heard anyone stand up for an air cooled Maggie Deutz yet…