With reference to the fire on the BA flight from Las Vegas, it has been reported that passengers ignored the evacuate instructions and decided their life and the life of other passengers was not important, as they blocked the aisles getting their over head locker baggage.
If i was on that flight, i would have knocked the idiots out of the way, the crew and pilots were amazing and very calm.Their bags would have torn the emergency slides, the leaflet in the seat says do not take baggage on the chute.
I went to the same school as Captain Coward who landed the BA aircraft from Beijing to London after it stalled on final approach due to frozen water crystals in the fuel lines while flying over Russia, his family are farmers from Warminster in Wiltshire, he landed beyond the barrier after the main road avoiding a fatal accident.
How do pilots remain calm in emergencies is beyond me, the same for the New York flight that was ditched in the river due a bird strike, he informs ATC that he is landing in the River Hudson, ATC say can you make an alternative airport, he says no time.
Amazing seat in the pants flying skills.
Hope you would have remembered to take your stiletto heels off as well Toby 
Selfish, disconnected with-reality ignoramuses. I’m tired of making excuses for humanity. 21st century man doesn’t seem to adopt well to the transition from “having your arse wiped on a fifty quid ticket, I’m the iPad generation customer” to all of a sudden “it’s an emergency, do what we say, you’re now responsible for your actions to stay alive and keep everyone alive around you”
People don’t like personal responsibility these days. They expect that fifty quid absolves them from responsible behavior, even in emergencies. “evacuate” means get the f out. And now. No politeness, no niceties, they have been given this is an order, and as briefed. That’s your responsibility as a passenger if you wish to travel by air. If a commander or the First Officer or, in lieu of us, (as trained) if we’re squashed and brown bread at the front, the cabin crew orders evacuate, you evacuate. It can go very wrong, extremely quickly on aircraft. We carry up to 172 tonnes of fuel alone on our type. That’s a lot of candle wax.
I’ve been involved in many emergencies and an evacuation - people did the most stupid things, mainly through panic but I’ve also seen selfishness and ignorance. I’ve no time for that, no matter how much your ticket cost. But retrieving your cabin wheels bag from the overhead bin is not panic. It’s blatant disregard and massively underestimated and ill educated self judgment of the situation. Under legislation, aircraft have to be able to evacuate a FULL load of passengers through 50 percent of exits in 90 seconds. Have you seen how long it takes for Mark or Sharon to stow their bag when they’re holding you up to board? Still thinking sympathetically? Not me. We’re the last to leave on the flight deck. I don’t want to burn because of this type of behavior. This isn’t an errant fire alarm in a hotel. F tards. Put down that bloody paper and for once listen to the brief you “think” you know.
Freight Dog:
Selfish, disconnected with-reality ignoramuses. I’m tired of making excuses for humanity. 21st century man doesn’t seem to adopt well to the transition from “having your arse wiped on a fifty quid ticket, I’m the iPad generation customer” to all of a sudden “it’s an emergency, do what we say, you’re now responsible for your actions to stay alive and keep everyone alive around you”People don’t like personal responsibility these days. They expect that fifty quid absolves them from responsible behavior, even in emergencies. “evacuate” means get the f out. And now. No politeness, no niceties, they have been given this is an order, and as briefed. That’s your responsibility as a passenger if you wish to travel by air. If a commander or the First Officer or, in lieu of us, (as trained) if we’re squashed and brown bread at the front, the cabin crew orders evacuate, you evacuate. It can go very wrong, extremely quickly on aircraft. We carry up to 172 tonnes of fuel alone on our type. That’s a lot of candle wax.
I’ve been involved in many emergencies and an evacuation - people did the most stupid things, mainly through panic but I’ve also seen selfishness and ignorance. I’ve no time for that, no matter how much your ticket cost. But retrieving your cabin wheels bag from the overhead bin is not panic. It’s blatant disregard and massively underestimated and ill educated self judgment of the situation. Under legislation, aircraft have to be able to evacuate a FULL load of passengers through 50 percent of exits in 90 seconds. Have you seen how long it takes for Mark or Sharon to stow their bag when they’re holding you up to board? Still thinking sympathetically? Not me. We’re the last to leave on the flight deck. I don’t want to burn because of this type of behavior. This isn’t an errant fire alarm in a hotel. F tards. Put down that bloody paper and for once listen to the brief you “think” you know.
^ This.The usual rule that the fire crews go by is that they’ve got a less than 2 minutes window of opportunity before it gets very nasty.
The Okinawa fire example seems to follow that more or less spot on.No doubt with the same type of blatant criminal stupidity among passengers costing valuable time.
youtube.com/watch?v=-qyZFASOAe0
As for the Las Vegas incident maybe she was watching over them all by making sure it didn’t get off the ground this time. 
Raymundo, i would have to block the aisles to get my favorite teddy bear from the over head locker, with the video that Carryfast posted, why did it take 4.31 minutes for the first appliance to arrive, in Las Vegas, everyone was out of the plane in three minutes ?
I am surprised passengers with their aircraft on fire do not ask to retrieve their luggage in the cargo hold, to ignore the evacuate instruction is pure selfishness, me first attitude to save their designer hand bag or luxury toiletries which can be replaced.
Maybe Raymundo would have rescued his tide times handbook, just jesting !! 
There ya go Freight Dog, what you said has just been confirmed by the ‘expert on all things’. One day his computer will go ■■■■ up and our Carryfast will be well an truly buggered 
raymundo:
There ya go Freight Dog, what you said has just been confirmed by the ‘expert on all things’. One day his computer will go ■■■■ up and our Carryfast will be well an truly buggered
I think you’ve missed the bit about the first 5 years of my working life being employed by a firm which specialised in the manufacture of aircraft fire fighting vehicles and equipment.
In which case ‘the rules’ which Freight Dog is referring to were/are probably more a case of ‘experts’ in flying planes following the advice of ‘experts’ in putting out fires.Which I think describes my employers who,at that time,were probably working more with slide rules than computers. 
I think you’ve missed the bit about the first 5 years of my working life being employed by a firm which specialised in the manufacture of aircraft fire fighting vehicles and equipment.
Sorry, but I’ve never seen anything to say what you did before. BTW What was you’re job?
No chance Toby, more likely a case of women and children follow me, cos I know the way
raymundo:
I think you’ve missed the bit about the first 5 years of my working life being employed by a firm which specialised in the manufacture of aircraft fire fighting vehicles and equipment.Sorry, but I’ve never seen anything to say what you did before. BTW What was you’re job?
Making and then later when they’d paid for my HGV testing wagons like this. 
Carryfast:
raymundo:
There ya go Freight Dog, what you said has just been confirmed by the ‘expert on all things’. One day his computer will go ■■■■ up and our Carryfast will be well an truly buggeredI think you’ve missed the bit about the first 5 years of my working life being employed by a firm which specialised in the manufacture of aircraft fire fighting vehicles and equipment.
In which case ‘the rules’ which Freight Dog is referring to were/are probably more a case of ‘experts’ in flying planes following the advice of ‘experts’ in putting out fires.Which I think describes my employers who,at that time,were probably working more with slide rules than computers.
Yeah, the 90 seconds thing is not a rule for crew, it’s a design criteria for certifying aircraft. If they set it at that, it’s a good benchmark of the urgency in the situation. Like you say, I don’t doubt the advice comes from the brains involved in aircraft design for years, how quickly they burn and how long we have to evacuate. From aircraft engineers, test crew through to rescue crew. All we go off is, if we have called “evacuate”, we mean now. It is not a request.
At the front we’re dumping pressurization valves and killing the engines using the fire handles additionally potentially firing the extinguisher bottles and killing the electrics by emergency , leaving just emergency power. It is not done lightly. Down the back, they’re retrieving their samsonite from the locker.
Like I said, if you hear evacuate on an aircraft it’s not for ■■■ and giggles.
Carryfast:
Freight Dog:
Selfish, disconnected with-reality ignoramuses. I’m tired of making excuses for humanity. 21st century man doesn’t seem to adopt well to the transition from “having your arse wiped on a fifty quid ticket, I’m the iPad generation customer” to all of a sudden “it’s an emergency, do what we say, you’re now responsible for your actions to stay alive and keep everyone alive around you”People don’t like personal responsibility these days. They expect that fifty quid absolves them from responsible behavior, even in emergencies. “evacuate” means get the f out. And now. No politeness, no niceties, they have been given this is an order, and as briefed. That’s your responsibility as a passenger if you wish to travel by air. If a commander or the First Officer or, in lieu of us, (as trained) if we’re squashed and brown bread at the front, the cabin crew orders evacuate, you evacuate. It can go very wrong, extremely quickly on aircraft. We carry up to 172 tonnes of fuel alone on our type. That’s a lot of candle wax.
I’ve been involved in many emergencies and an evacuation - people did the most stupid things, mainly through panic but I’ve also seen selfishness and ignorance. I’ve no time for that, no matter how much your ticket cost. But retrieving your cabin wheels bag from the overhead bin is not panic. It’s blatant disregard and massively underestimated and ill educated self judgment of the situation. Under legislation, aircraft have to be able to evacuate a FULL load of passengers through 50 percent of exits in 90 seconds. Have you seen how long it takes for Mark or Sharon to stow their bag when they’re holding you up to board? Still thinking sympathetically? Not me. We’re the last to leave on the flight deck. I don’t want to burn because of this type of behavior. This isn’t an errant fire alarm in a hotel. F tards. Put down that bloody paper and for once listen to the brief you “think” you know.
^ This.The usual rule that the fire crews go by is that they’ve got a less than 2 minutes window of opportunity before it gets very nasty.
The Okinawa fire example seems to follow that more or less spot on.No doubt with the same type of blatant criminal stupidity among passengers costing valuable time.
youtube.com/watch?v=-qyZFASOAe0
As for the Las Vegas incident maybe she was watching over them all by making sure it didn’t get off the ground this time.
Hi up CF. I’ve only just noticed you posted a link to Barbara Jane Harrison. It’s nice you linked her in. A personal tribute really. I think cabin crew get a raw deal these days. My partner is cabin crew. I won’t say who she works for but suffice to say, before I went long haul freighting we used to work at the same passenger airline. By a twist of fate we were operating on the same aircraft one particular day that had a “fumes” event. As per training it resulted in us on oxygen masks, an emergency descent and full emergency cabin prep with a divert into a UK airport. I changed the way I viewed even my own partner after that. I knew I could rely on her when others - the passengers - were panicking and frightened. She went from being a young 18 year old lass who’d joined a company wet under the ears to a strong Woman who had reserves hidden up her sleeves that very few don’t.
In the subsequent years she’s had herself further continuous events to deal with. Heart attacks in flight to finally dealing with an engine failure in flight with the second engine beginning to fail. That event frightened everyone, even the pilots. And it left its mark. Shortly followed a few months later by an on board hold fire that resulted in evacuation. It actually caused her a couple of problems afterwards. Both incidents occurred within months of each other. She was awarded a company “medal” for services but that meant nothing to her…
She went back to work and carried on. Somehow, the juxaposition of the fear she’d been through and jumping back into dealing with ungrateful, ignorant people shouting at her because they can’t get more booze or want to swap seats, or parents leaving full sick bags from the kids leaking out on the seats onto a pile of crisps - all got to her after the shock of the incidents. It took some time.
She’s back in the air and been flying a decade. Much as one maybe tempted to look down their nose at cabin crew, the perception surely being they are thick young girls who are there to carry out some boring old demo, serve you crisps and deny you of the privaledge to move when the belt sign is on - but bare in mind the chances are many of them have been leaders in emergencies that would make some collapse in rigamortised fear. Not because they’re iron or anything silly, but because they’re selected accordingly for hidden strengths that aren’t easy to spot on a sniffy arrogant glance. Can you spot on first glance someone who doesn’t crumple under fear? It’s hard to spot. I’ve personally witnessed so called looking hard men cry like babies even just severe turbulence, and that’s nothing to worry about.
Nice link. Good man.
Freight Dog:
Hi up CF. I’ve only just noticed you posted a link to Barbara Jane Harrison. Nice link. Good man.
Thanks Freight Dog.
Anyone who takes on a job in which they know exactly the risks they face in the event of an aircraft emergency.In which part of the job means that if/when they’ve opened the doors and put out the chutes they will stay inside a burning plane until they can no longer be of assistance regardless of the potential consequences gets my vote as the bravest of the brave.
On that note we can safely add the cabin crew’s actions in the Manchester Airport incident to the list of that example.
The severity of that seems to have resulted from the fire having managed to breach the fuselage into the cabin within around 1 minute. 
Which even the best fire fighting hardware in the day which Manchester had wasn’t able to stop without casualties.The single Pathfinder which they had online being designed to deal with incidents of 747 proportions.While from what I’ve heard the story within the AAIB report related to them ‘retreiving’ ‘J2’ from the bodyshop to help in the fire fighting effort was an understatement.Which went along the lines of it being blocked in by other vehicles which couldn’t be moved in time so they just battered and rammed their way out through them all.
skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/374.pdf
While this shows the more recent developments regarding fighting internal cabin fires.Although the idea seems to compromise the amount of available provision of the idea of bigger = better monitor for external fire fighting.
Carryfast can you do some detective work for me, i have read somewhere that the East Midlands Boeing 737 crash, that hit the motorway embankment was not the fault of the pilots, although they may have got stitched up for it, as in road haulage it is always blame the driver when things go Pete Tong.
I think the maintenance crew wired up some instrument warnings the wrong way way around, so it gave misleading information on final approach with an engine problem or fire.
I think the Captain shut down the wrong engine in error.
Freight Dog and Carryfast, what are your opinions on 911 Twin Towers, were the pilots in fact American milatary and the planes were not commercial aircraft, with sightings of extra structures on the aircraft bodies.
All the tapes of recordings may have been fake, like the moon landing, did the USA really make it to the moon and it was all fake in a Tv studio ?
toby1234abc:
Carryfast can you do some detective work for me, i have read somewhere that the East Midlands Boeing 737 crash, that hit the motorway embankment was not the fault of the pilots, although they may have got stitched up for it, as in road haulage it is always blame the driver when things go Pete Tong.
I think the maintenance crew wired up some instrument warnings the wrong way way around, so it gave misleading information on final approach with an engine problem or fire.
I think the Captain shut down the wrong engine in error.
Freight Dog and Carryfast, what are your opinions on 911 Twin Towers, were the pilots in fact American milatary and the planes were not commercial aircraft, with sightings of extra structures on the aircraft bodies.
All the tapes of recordings may have been fake, like the moon landing, did the USA really make it to the moon and it was all fake in a Tv studio ?
Conspiracy theories are always going to be a grey area and realistically it would be very difficult to prove any possibility that doesn’t match what the official channels say happened.It is possible that certain issues ‘might’ ‘possibly’ be a case of conflict of interest between the establishment and pilots being used as scapegoats but it would take a miracle to prove it if it was the case.
As for 9/11 and the moon landings.‘If’ there were any questions my personal ones would be
- How did two aircraft manage to cut their way through massive structural steel beams each under thousands of tonnes of load like a knife through butter.Without large parts of the aircraft like wings and tail sections and probably fuselage being torn to shreds against the outside of the building before getting through.Bearing in mind the box type construction of the WTC which is stated as the perimeter of the building being load bearing structure and the principle of barrage balloons was that a few suspended steel cables were considered enough to tear a plane apart.
youtube.com/watch?v=GyL9Q2xPmhU
-
Did an airliner hit the Pentagon.
-
I’d really hope that they didn’t fake the moon landings and the Saturn V seems like a hell of a piece of machinery to make to do it if they did.But I’ve always wondered about some of the photography and where were all the stars and some references around regarding NASA having understated the issues of sending spacecraft and crews that distance from Earth into space outside of the Earth’s magnetic protection against solar radiation.
In regards to what hit the WTC and Pentagon and why,assuming it wasn’t as reported,I’d say more like something like this.
youtube.com/watch?v=XHKkzuU2qtE
As part of some type of false flag operation carried out by either or both of the big two US adversaries like Russia/China as some form of ‘warning’,regards closed door deals,that then obviously had to be covered up to prevent the resulting nuclear war.
It was reported in the media that the passports of the hijackers on 911 were found intact on the ground, but everything else was destroyed and turned in to dust, they mentioned the passports were Arabic names, this was a lie to stir propaganda.
It is my opinion that Bin Laden was not involved, and his family were removed from the states before 911.
The profit made from new contracts by invading Middle Eastern countries would be more than the destruction of the twin towers.
I believe the Pentagon aircraft attack did not happen.
Did RMS Titanic sink or was it the sister ship Olympic which had already been severly damaged in a collision with HMS Hawke.?Lets hear it for the me,me,me generation.
toby1234abc:
It was reported in the media that the passports of the hijackers on 911 were found intact on the ground, but everything else was destroyed and turned in to dust, they mentioned the passports were Arabic names, this was a lie to stir propaganda.
It is my opinion that Bin Laden was not involved, and his family were removed from the states before 911.
The profit made from new contracts by invading Middle Eastern countries would be more than the destruction of the twin towers.
I believe the Pentagon aircraft attack did not happen.
That theory doesn’t make much sense because they only went into Afghanistan on the basis of the 9/11 attacks.While Iraq seems to have been a continuation of GW1 with the cover story of WMD used as a pretext for,what might be, credible rumours of it actually having been about a direct threat by Saddam against the Bush family.
IE ‘if’ there is any conspiracy concerning 9/11 as I said the scale of the job suggests major adversarial power involvement in response to something.It’s my bet that ‘something’ that broke the camel’s back might have been the combined attacks against Russian/Chinese interests in Iraq and Serbia in the form of GW1 and the bombing of Belgrade.
Just like the Kennedy assassination was most likely to have been retaliation for the Cuban Missile issue probably with a bit of help from the mob and the KKK in his case.
The common link in both cases being the need to avoid the actions in question escalating into all out nuclear war using cover stories concocted by the defence cheifs.The technology of CGI obviously making hijacked aircraft a good cover story,for what was possibly a cruise missile attack,possible in the case of 9/11.Just as Lee Harvey Oswald was the fall guy and patsy in the case of Kennedy.