I didnt particularly plan on another MAN but some extra works come up so i might aquire one.
thing is its a 430 and i know from experience there a bit gutless, so has anyone remapped one?
Not looking for “save your money” etc etc etc, just has anyone done one and what sort of gains are to be got
Power corrupts 
Driven properly a higher hp lorry can actually save you money, but the ‘driven properly’ part is hard to control unless you’re driving it yourself 
Personally I’d stick 480 badges on it and not tell the driver, I bet you he’ll never suss that it’s only a ‘little’ 430 
newmercman:
Power corruptsDriven properly a higher hp lorry can actually save you money, but the ‘driven properly’ part is hard to control unless you’re driving it yourself
Personally I’d stick 480 badges on it and not tell the driver, I bet you he’ll never suss that it’s only a ‘little’ 430
he will cos hes getting mine and i,ll be driving the little one 
I don’t know a lot about remapping but my mate had an FH 460 chipped up to a 530 and it lasted 4 days. Was going up a hill and bang went the turbo. Not sure if this is linked to having it chipped but it made me wary.
Ill be interested to hear how it works out if you decide to go ahead though. I have an 06 plate TGA 430 and it does lack a bit of power when fully loaded on a country road. Another mate has 480 TGX and its doing about 1.3-1.7 mpg more than mine on exactly the same work.
chaversdad:
newmercman:
Power corruptsDriven properly a higher hp lorry can actually save you money, but the ‘driven properly’ part is hard to control unless you’re driving it yourself
Personally I’d stick 480 badges on it and not tell the driver, I bet you he’ll never suss that it’s only a ‘little’ 430
he will cos hes getting mine and i,ll be driving the little one
chaversdad:
I didnt particularly plan on another MAN but some extra works come up so i might aquire one.
thing is its a 430 and i know from experience there a bit gutless, so has anyone remapped one?Not looking for “save your money” etc etc etc, just has anyone done one and what sort of gains are to be got
I have a TGX 480 which was remapped on a dynamometer in Holland. It performs the same as an R560 Scania but is very light on fuel. Common rail engines perform fantastically to remapping(when done correctly). Your engine is a D20 will respond very well to remapping,but firstly,you need to do the following.
(1) Put some Stanadyne fuel treatment through the diesel tank. This costs about £30 for a half gallon and can be got from your local John Deere dealer(They keep it for there common rail engines). Modern diesel lacks lubricity and these high pressure pumps and injectors need it to keep functioning correctly.
(2) Check that your EGR system in the inlet manifold isn’t clogged. If it is,take it off and clean it out…this normally costs about £50 to put the entire manifold into an ultrasonic cleaner overnight…it comes out like new in the morning
(3) Get the overhead(valves) adjusted. The adjustment tolerance on the overhead cam on this engine is very fine,and they have a tendancy to keep exhaust valves open if not adjusted correctly…causing valves and seats to burn.
(4) Your PM Kat is actually a DPF filter which clogs after 5 or 6 years. The excessive back pressure then causes the turbo to blow. Again,take it off and leave it in an ultrasonic cleaner overnight(£50) and it should be as free as a whistle in the morning.
(5) Now you can remap with confidence and should have no major problems. 500bhp is easily attainable and the engine should be smoke free and good on diesel.
thanks riverstick thats very comprehensive
Do euro 3 engines have all the DPF and stuff you mentioned?
Its an 05 plate with only 420k on it and a new turbo fitted in February this year, also all the valve clearances will be done during the oil and filter change
Good advice there Riverstick
Chaversdad, you could always get someone else to changes the badges and pretend you don’t know
chaversdad:
thanks riverstick thats very comprehensive
Do euro 3 engines have all the DPF and stuff you mentioned?Its an 05 plate with only 420k on it and a new turbo fitted in February this year, also all the valve clearances will be done during the oil and filter change
Hi Chaversdad,
The TGA’s from the early 00’s have the PM Kats(DPF’s) on them and that is what gives them an appetite for turbo’s when they begin to block around 500,000kms. Traditionally,MAN dealers do not replace the PM kats because of their cost…£3,000 or thereabouts,but the fact remains the exhaust is semi/fully blocked and will be down on power and hard on diesel. A £50 clean is a cheap and easy solution to this.
The common rail injectors run at extremely tight tolerances and must be kept lubricated. Again,your local MAN dealer is reluctant to replace these due to their £600 cost per injector. However your £30 Stanadyne cleaner/lubricator will clean most ills.
We have used Turbochip in the past to remap our engines since 1999,and their products have been very satisfactory. Expect to pay £400 to £800 for the transformation of your straight 6 to a V8…
Enjoy…and keep us posted!
thanks very much, i,ll be onto this tomorow 
forgot to ask and excuse my ignorance but where is the DPF on a TGA, just so i know what should be coming off for cleaning
Riverstick:
chaversdad:
thanks riverstick thats very comprehensive
Do euro 3 engines have all the DPF and stuff you mentioned?Its an 05 plate with only 420k on it and a new turbo fitted in February this year, also all the valve clearances will be done during the oil and filter change
Hi Chaversdad,
The TGA’s from the early 00’s have the PM Kats(DPF’s) on them and that is what gives them an appetite for turbo’s when they begin to block around 500,000kms. Traditionally,MAN dealers do not replace the PM kats because of their cost…£3,000 or thereabouts,but the fact remains the exhaust is semi/fully blocked and will be down on power and hard on diesel. A £50 clean is a cheap and easy solution to this.
The common rail injectors run at extremely tight tolerances and must be kept lubricated. Again,your local MAN dealer is reluctant to replace these due to their £600 cost per injector. However your £30 Stanadyne cleaner/lubricator will clean most ills.
We have used Turbochip in the past to remap our engines since 1999,and their products have been very satisfactory. Expect to pay £400 to £800 for the transformation of your straight 6 to a V8…
Enjoy…and keep us posted!
Excuse my ignorance,I’m am owner driver not quite a year into my adventure, but how easy are the PM Kats to clean? Is it something I could do myself, a fitters job or maybe even a specialist job? Also how easy is it to get at the injectors to keep them lubricated? Sorry if this is a stupid question but in still learning and rely on an outside fitter for most things. Cheers.
xfmatt:
Riverstick:
chaversdad:
thanks riverstick thats very comprehensive
Do euro 3 engines have all the DPF and stuff you mentioned?Its an 05 plate with only 420k on it and a new turbo fitted in February this year, also all the valve clearances will be done during the oil and filter change
Hi Chaversdad,
The TGA’s from the early 00’s have the PM Kats(DPF’s) on them and that is what gives them an appetite for turbo’s when they begin to block around 500,000kms. Traditionally,MAN dealers do not replace the PM kats because of their cost…£3,000 or thereabouts,but the fact remains the exhaust is semi/fully blocked and will be down on power and hard on diesel. A £50 clean is a cheap and easy solution to this.
The common rail injectors run at extremely tight tolerances and must be kept lubricated. Again,your local MAN dealer is reluctant to replace these due to their £600 cost per injector. However your £30 Stanadyne cleaner/lubricator will clean most ills.
We have used Turbochip in the past to remap our engines since 1999,and their products have been very satisfactory. Expect to pay £400 to £800 for the transformation of your straight 6 to a V8…
Enjoy…and keep us posted!
Excuse my ignorance,I’m am owner driver not quite a year into my adventure, but how easy are the PM Kats to clean? Is it something I could do myself, a fitters job or maybe even a specialist job? Also how easy is it to get at the injectors to keep them lubricated? Sorry if this is a stupid question but in still learning and rely on an outside fitter for most things. Cheers.
Hi Xfmatt,
If your engine is running,leave the injectors alone! Removing or servicing injectors in the modern diesel engine is very expensive and in a lot of cases unecessary. Stanadyne or Lucas fuel treatment mixed in with your diesel once in a while is the cheapest/easiest way to keep your pump and injectors in good working order. A few pints of two stroke oil throught the fuel now and again is an even cheaper way to keep your injection system out of trouble. This applies to all diesel injection systems,but especially so to common rail set ups. The older diesel systems ran around 1,500-3,000psi and had a good tolerance of bad/dirty/watered down fuel,clogged filters etc. The newer systems are running around 30,000psi,consequently,the tolerances within the injection system components are extremely fine,and it takes very little to knock them out of kilter. The higher the pressures injection system works at,the more power the engine produces for less diesel(the higher pressures atomizes the fuel better and makes it more friendly to ignite and burn). These engines can give fantastic power,fuel economy,quite running etc,but clean fuel is of paramount importance.
The DPF’s(Diesel Particulate Filter) is basically a filter which traps soot particles. After five or six years usage these filters are ineveitably blocked. The back pressure causes reduced power,poorer fuel economy and more pressure on the turbocharger. The engine cannot ‘breathe’. We have seen smaller engines split exhaust manifolds as a result of excessive back pressure. We have succeeded in soaking DPF’s in diesel/jizer overnight and powerwashing both ways and cleaning them perfectly. This depends on how much pipe is leading in/out of the unit. Be careful about removing/or punching a hole through the DPF,as a lot engines now have sensors to monitor the backpressure and will derate themselves if the backpressure is outside the recommended parameters. A good remapping company can map both the EGR and DPF systems off the engine and you can remove both systems. Your performance will automatically improve and your fuel economy will improve by 15~20%. But beware…it is illegal to remove these emission systems from an engine…so if you do it…don’t get caught!
The easiest way for now is to clean both the DPF and EGR systems and your truck will run trouble free for 4 or 5 years again.
Riverstick:
The easiest way for now is to clean both the DPF and EGR systems and your truck will run trouble free for 4 or 5 years again.
But how do you get to them to clean them?
chaversdad:
Riverstick:
The easiest way for now is to clean both the DPF and EGR systems and your truck will run trouble free for 4 or 5 years again.But how do you get to them to clean them?
DPF = PM Kat= Exhaust box…Take off and clean…ultrasonic preferably.
EGR system = inlet manifold…check first to see if clogged with tar…if so remove and clean and refit
chaversdad:
Riverstick:
The easiest way for now is to clean both the DPF and EGR systems and your truck will run trouble free for 4 or 5 years again.But how do you get to them to clean them?
There’s a garage in Cork that know they’re way around those problem’s…eh Tony 
As Riverstick rightly says, de EGRing any engine will bring decent fuel savings, as well as improving reliability by a huge amount, it will also give you plenty of extra power, a CAT C15 that is set at 475hp (550 and 625 are also available) instantly becomes a 725hp with a simple remap, and all they’re doing is removing all the junk emission settings and taking away the retarded timing that they require, not too expensive either, plenty of bang for the buck 
Riverstick or anyone alse that knows, are you saying that MAN EGR is inherently detrimental to engine reliability and you should really choose SCR if there’s a choice and you don’t want to go through that maintenance regime you described? I know SCR is a pain with adblue but bar the odd sensor malfunction at least it isn’t going to start blowing turbo’s/injectors and the like.
I haven’t heard of any problems with Scania EGR, is their system more reliable or does it also need the preventative maintenace regime you described?
A ■■■■■■■ engineer was the one who worked out that EGR would bring an engine down to the reduced emmisions levels required, he also said that EGR was about the worst thing that you could possibly do to a diesel engine 
A diesel engine works best with a mixture of fuel injected at very high pressure and a healthy dose of clean, fresh, cold and dense air, so adding recirculated dirty hot exhaust gases is going against those principles 
An EGR engine and an SCR engine have about the same amount of sensors to go wrong, but with an EGR engine you also have coolers and valves all over the place that fail too, whereas an SCR engine has all the gubbins in the exhaust, so from a mechanical point of view, SCR is the simpler system. However it’s not only the hardware that gives problems, the sensors are the biggest problem, well actually that’s not strictly true, the ‘technicians’ are the biggest problem, very few of them know how to fix things anymore, they plug in a laptop and start swapping parts until they hopefully cure the problem, unfortunately a failed sensor is often a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself, so they carry on throwing sensors at the problem and never get to the bottom of it
Any truck purchase I made now would also factor in the removal of all the emissions junk on the engine, because once these systems start to fail, there never comes a point where you can get them right again, it’s one headache after another
Thanks newmercman, interesting.
I’ve always leaned toward EGR just so you don’t have to faff about putting adblue in but by the sounds of it, SCR is a safer bet for the longevity of the engine. Although it probably wouldn’t put me off buying an EGR engine if the money was right and you look after it with preventative measures like Riverstick has suggested.
Would removing the Turbo and having it cleaned be a good idea whilst you’re doing the rest?
Does anyone know where you can have stuff ultrasonically cleaned near Birmingham?
Always said i’d be shy of getting another MAN but the money seems right enough.
i know its not to be encouraged but how easy would it be to remove the EGR system altogether from a MAN?