To sum the tacho rules in Europe make drivers unsafe, due to panicking over hours and finding parking places, you are more likely to drive badly in a race to book off.
In the Usa/ Canada, they are more relaxed.
For European rules, bring in 12 hours driving five or six days a week, per day.
Then 12 hours daily rest.
Bin the stupid 24 hours weekly rest.
More flexibility on 45 hours off weekly rest, for example , you had 44 off, but it is not legal.
One hour short won’t make you fall asleep at the wheel.
Marine Traffic for watching ships on the Humber if you have nowt better to do, or anywhere else in the real world for that matter. Flight Radar if watching planes is where you get your rocks off.
As for saying as in debate 2, no criminality for ships captains and air line pilots etc over their mistakes … Toby, Get yer facts right ! You can get a criminal record, imprisonment and unlimited fines for some actions done by others but as you are the Captain at the time it’s you who carry the can back at the end of the day.
Eg. A driver fills his fuel tank to the neck and then goes around a sharp corner and spills a bit of fuel on to the road, what’s the worst that can happen to him ■■ I fill my fuel tanks but the chief engineer miscalculates the amount we can take so have a spillage with what result … The ■■■■■ hits the fan big style with clean up ops, authorities notified and investigations taking place that usually end up with a bloody huge bill and sometimes a talk with the judge !!!
RobinHood, ships do not come within the scope of the WTD. Maximum duty time within a 24 hr period can be up to 14. Every rule regarding time on watch/duty is exceeded wether intentionally or not, cannot in any way be done legally unless the number of crew are increased substantially and that aint goin to happen any day soon. Trying to keep within the scope of the HOURS OF REST regs is a pain in the arris.
raymundo:
RobinHood, ships do not come within the scope of the WTD. Maximum duty time within a 24 hr period can be up to 14. Every rule regarding time on watch/duty is exceeded wether intentionally or not, cannot in any way be done legally unless the number of crew are increased substantially and that aint goin to happen any day soon. Trying to keep within the scope of the HOURS OF REST regs is a pain in the arris.
I know mate, thats what I’m saying. An AIS signal on Marine Traffic isn’t going to tell anyone anything about working times and lead to officers being prosecuted for working time excesses in the same way that a tacho is with a driver, like Conor is implying that would be the case.
Better days when the unions knew what they were doing and what they were there for.‘Domestic Operations’ meaning exactly what it says by the union’s definition in the day.But sold out by the pro EU government as usual.
I think someone should start a campaign for running with 3 logbooks again. 1 for days,1 for nights,and 1 for when you cant wangle the 1st two anymore… 
Did tachographs not get brought in because of the’old and bold’ not complying with the respective legislation that was in place at the time?
IE, logbooks and paper tachos were too easily falsified to allow the ‘non stop from London to Malaga’ from days of yore.
I don’t know abou anyone else but I want to do less work not more!
If you can’t make a living in 84 hours (it should be 60) there is something seriously WRONG!
steelgoon:
Did tachographs not get brought in because of the’old and bold’ not complying with the respective legislation that was in place at the time?IE, logbooks and paper tachos were too easily falsified to allow the ‘non stop from London to Malaga’ from days of yore.
No tachos were brought in as part of the sell out of the UK to the EU in which the definition of ‘domestic’ was effectively whitewashed over.
As for the 24/7 working week lot they couldn’t care less about hours regs anyway and tachos aren’t going to stop them.
NewLad:
I don’t know abou anyone else but I want to do less work not more!If you can’t make a living in 84 hours (it should be 60) there is something seriously WRONG!
The issue actually being stranded a few miles from base or destination or safe parking having run into EU driving hours limits and tachos which record to the minute.Or not being able to stop for an unofficial break on the road or start a bit later than the guvnor would like on tramping etc etc.Ie flexibility isn’t the same thing as carte blanche for a 24/7 working week.
Carryfast:
NewLad:
I don’t know abou anyone else but I want to do less work not more!If you can’t make a living in 84 hours (it should be 60) there is something seriously WRONG!
The issue actually being stranded a few miles from base or destination or safe parking having run into EU driving hours limits and tachos which record to the minute.Or not being able to stop for an unofficial break on the road or start a bit later than the guvnor would like on tramping etc etc.Ie flexibility isn’t the same thing as carte blanche for a 24/7 working week.
I understand that but if the rules were wishy washy, you’d just end up with firms abusing the situation.