Tachograph questions

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

Here I have a few tachograph questions. Some I
think I know but others :confused: . See what you think It
might make you laugh :laughing:

the tachograph is a 24 hour instrument whereas its clock
has only a 12 hour display. How would you make sure
that you have it right :question:

These I think I know below.

tachograph front always put in facing upwards and don’t
catch it like I did as it makes marks on it

Mode Switch:
Steering Wheel symbol is for Driving
Bed symbol is for Breaks in work and daily rest periods
hammers is for working
Square box with line through is for
available for work.

On tachograph near driver I would put surname then firstname.

On next line down there is a building with a arrow pointing
forward. Here I would put Sheffield or would I need to put
something like Atterclife, Sheffield.

Still next to the building there is a arrow pointing backwards
just under where I put the start journey place. I would fill
this in when I finished my day back at the yard. So I
would put Atterclife, Sheffield.

The next line down is the date I started duty. I would put 01/02 2005.

The line under start duty date is finish duty. I would put
01/02 2005 when I finished my day.

Then I would put vehicle reg P675 AAA.

Then there it says finish with a arrow pointing backwards.
Here I would put the mileage when I finished my journey
that day 202480km.

Next line down says start next to it with arrow pointing forward.
Here I would put the mileage before starting my journey 202390km.

The next line says total. Here I would add up the mileage
I have done from starting journey to finishing journey 90km.

On the back of the tachograph I am not to sure :confused:

On the back of the tachograph you can add 3 more trucks
that you have driven. I would like to know what the bottom
bit is for where you put defects, comments and then it
looks like you had up the driving and available for work.

Also there is the top bit of the disc that as 24 hours clock
and driving,working,available for work,resting - Here I would
get a pen and put a line from 17:00 hours to 18:00 hours in the
driving line and I would mark 18:00 hours to 19:00 hours
in the rest line.

2

I read this somewhere else before my first day but with regards to seeing if the clock is right… if you hold the disk upwards (shiny side towards you) with the current time unbetween finger and thumb( so if it was 0500 you would hold the 5 between finger and thumb) with the rest of the tacho hanging down.
you then place the chart on the ‘egg’ and it should slip stright on if the egg is facing the oppersite way you know its 12hrs out!

Think thats right I stand will stand corrected if its not :slight_smile:

Dan

3

Convoy, there is a lot there, but here goes;
To check the chart is the ‘right’ 12 hours with a ‘traditional’ tacho instrument you can do the following; put the chart, recording side uppermost over the pear shaped cam. If you carefully lift the part of the chart nearest you upwards you should see a groove cut in the supporting plate underneath, this groove, if you lay the chart back into position will indicate (on the chart) whether the clock is showing am or pm eg 03:00 or 15:00. If it’s 12 hours out simply adjust the clock using the little wheel on the side.
With a modular tacho (looks like a cd player) the display usually indicates 24 hr time. Provided that there are no charts in the instrument these units will automatically select the correct time. On the VDO Siemens 1324 series if you open the instrument and pull the tray forward, you will see a small silver plate at the rear with a clock and arrow engraved on it. This is an additional check. On the TVI 2400 series if you pull the chart table forwards, the correct time will be between two lugs under which the chart locates. However, with this tacho the chart table will freely rotate when the instrument is open, so checking had to be done just after the instrument is opened with a chart installed.

Tacho chart always installed recording face upwards. Yes, be careful it’s all to easy to scratch the wax coating off.

Mode switches;
DRIVING, doesn’t exist on tachos fitted after 1996 as they are all ‘AUTOMATIC.’ This is the worst thing that anybody could have written on the front of the ■■■■ thing. ALL it means is that it doesn’t matter what position the switch is set to, the instument will AUTOMATICALLY record driving when the vehicle is in motion.
BED, for all those times when you can freely dispose of your time eg; drinking tea, watching telly, waiting for the vehicle to be loaded or unloaded where you take no part in the process.
DUTY; square box with diagonal line through it, also called ‘Jam Butty.’ Strictly speaking this is periods when you are available to work. However, see below for more details.
WORK; the ‘crossed hammers’ basically as the name suggests work; pushing pallets up and down trailer with a pump truck, washing down vehicles etc. When the regulations were originally published, the UK had a derrogation to include ‘work’ and ‘duty’ under the single symbol used for 'duty, ’ the jam butty. This may change in March this year when RTR comes into force when we adopt the european practice of showing periods of availability under the ‘jam butty.’ Watch this space.

Chart centre fields; (starting at the top and going down)
Driver; Strictly speaking Surname first followed by First Name. Have to be full names initials won’t do.
Duty start location; where you start duty, in the case you quote, Atterclife would be better than Sheffield.
Duty end location; where you end duty, a blank space or ditto marks won’t do, if it’s the same as where you started write the place name again.
Date duty started; eg; 01/01/05
Date duty ended: if it’s the same date, then write it in again. If it’s after 24:00 then 02/01/05 or whatever. Again blanks and ditto marks don’t win prizes.
Vehicle Reg; whats on the plate eg; A123 ABC
Odometer reading at END of duty eg; 123456 don’t bother with 10ths of km
Odometer reading at START of duty, eg; 123123.
Trip distance; if you want to do the subtraction you can, it is NOT a legal requirement. Office staff like you to do the maths because they cannot usually manage it!
The back of charts varies between who printed the thing. in the centre are usually three spaces for vehicle changes during shift, provided the chart is compatible with the new tacho(see later). enter the new reg number, odometer reading and time of change.
There will be a grid showing 24 hours and all the mode switches; this is so you can make a manual entry should the tacho breakdown. It should also be used to keep a record of periods when you have no tach instrument to make the recordings for you, eg, you work in the warehouse for 2 hours before your vehicle arrives back from an earlier run. Suggest you use a felt pen so that it doesn’t go through to the recording side of the chart.
The little numbers are Type Approval numbers eg; e1 57. If you look in the tacho instrument you will find a label that tells you who made the thing the serial number and the type approval number. The instrument and chart MUST have the same numbers. They must also have the same speed rating eg 125km/h. Using incomatible charts is an offence.

This is covered in the Drivers Hours book (reference GV262) you can get free from VOSA. If you give your local office a ring; 0114 269 2334 they will post one to you. Finally I hope I’ve covered everything, if not PM me and I’ll try and fill in any gaps.

4

Just a point about filling in the Km’s. You must put a start and finish Km. You do not need to put a total Km. If you do work out the maths and fill in the total make sure it is correct. It is not an offence to leave it blank but it is an offence to fill it in incorrectly.

5

Thanks for your reply’s, geebee45 you said putting
Atterclife would be better than Sheffield but
what if there was a Atterclife somewhere else.
Would you suggest putting Atterclife,Sheffield if
it fits in the space. I already have scratched the
face and my instructor did when he got it out of
the box. My instructor gave me a ball point pen
and have just seen that the marks on the back
have made marks on wax side.

What kind of pen do you use to mark on the back
of tacho disc. Would a cd marker be ok as its
got a extra fine end.

I have just started reading Drivers Hours book
(reference GV262) from vosa and am
just looking over page 8 on the different ways
to split driving and breaks up.

I have seen the older tachos where you turn the key and
put driver 2 tacho under driver 1’s in that other slot but
have never seen cd type yet. I have used that white wheel
thing to correct time by a few minutes also. I have put
the disc over that cam also as it looks to me like you can
only put it on 1 way as the disc I have the centre is shaped
like that cam and guess all other disc’s are to.

Thanks for the tip to see if the clock is showing am or pm.

I will have a calculator and complete the tacho
for piece of mind sake.

one more question where would you wright on the back of the tacho if you went over your hours if there was a accident and what would you wright.

6

Personally I was under the impression that the tacho modes were used as follows…

Driving - Is mostly automatic so don’t worry about it…
Bed is for your breaks
Square with a line (Jam butty if you will) is for ‘working/loading’, so basically anytime you are in the truck and NOT on break…
Crossed hammers, I thought, wasn’t used anymore, altho I’ve been finding a few trucks set to this recently, si i’m wandering if peeps are ‘practising’ periods of availability… ■■?

Luv
Chrisie…

7

Its the “sandwich” symbol that the UK dosen’t use, we use the x’ed hammers Ragtop.

Convoy, you should use a felt tip pen of some description to fill in the back of a chart. There is normally a space for “Comments” somewhere on the back, if there isnt just write it whereever you can. Don’t worry too much, it is unlikely you will need to fill it in. I have only needed to a couple of times in the last 10 years.

8

Ragtop:
Personally I was under the impression that the tacho modes were used as follows…

Driving - Is mostly automatic so don’t worry about it…
Bed is for your breaks
Square with a line (Jam butty if you will) is for ‘working/loading’, so basically anytime you are in the truck and NOT on break…
Crossed hammers, I thought, wasn’t used anymore, altho I’ve been finding a few trucks set to this recently, si i’m wandering if peeps are ‘practising’ periods of availability… ■■?

Luv
Chrisie…

That is 100% correct Chrisie.
I have had a memo from my boss this week, detailing what differences will come into force when the WTD comes in. They say that I will have to use crossed hammers for “other work” and the square with a line for “periods of availability”. I have started doing it now, for practice.

Convoy, as smcaul says, you should use a felt tip pen to write on the back. Using a ball point will mark the front of the disc as well. I have months when I don’t write on the back of my cards, then I will have a week where, whatever I do, nothing goes right and I might write on my card 1 or 2 times in that week.

9

Convoy as some one who starts work in Attercliffe Sheffield every day Just put Sheffield on your chart or Rotherham if that is where you start. Attercliffe is just an area which in theory could and as you know nearly does stretch into Rotherham.
As for totaling the distance travelled I never do, I’m with smcual on this one.
In front of me I have a laminated hand out from the RHA about Tachos and driving hours it says
Jam Butty, work other than driving.
Bed, rest from work, break from driving.
Crossed hammers, other work, Not normally used in the UK
None you notice for driving which is what I’m supposed to be doing!
Any way my tacho is auto cd type when I’m driving it goes unto the jam butty when I stop it goes unto the bed. But I’m told not to leave it on auto as this gives a false impression that I am at rest when I’m unloading.
Another point but a personal one when I’m waiting to be unloading/loading this is not a break but part of the job. A rest is time for me to what I want,go for a walk, take some piccies, do some shopping, etc. They don’t pay me for this time so I can do what I want.
Convoy if you want a chat pm me with number.
ps i think Chrissie has got it right

10

right here goes 1st and foremost the wtd is not here yet so whatever the companies are doing individually then thats their probs.

the easy way to check the time on the tacho is place a spare chart in and run round the block,it’s quick and simple.reference the filling in off tacho charts
top line

surname then first name
next line
place of duty starts ie attercliffe …not sheffield,irrespective of how many attercliffe’s there are.
next line
place duty finishes.ie attercliffe
next line.date duty starts ie 15 01 2005
next line date duty finishes ie 15 01 2005…( you put this date in at the end of shift not at the start)
next line reg number
next line is your start mil and finish mil and your total mil

img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/ … n15_02.jpg

above is a copy of my chart for tues of this week,as i was off i can’t put in reg ae53 ztg,or mileage but it show’s how your chart should look when you start
duty.

below is how a chart should look after your duty finishes,bear in mind the reg is missing and mileage so imagine its filled in

img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/ … n15_03.jpg

the basic’s r there for u to see,

now tacho modes…the square with line through is for driving
the x hammers is other work
the bed is rest

i know some companies are starting to change methods as simon and others have said.but as it stands just now this is how we operate in the uk at the moment,so we need to stay with in the rules.as and when the 23march comes then we switch to the ways the wtd dictates and not b4.

11

Couple of little things that have been mentioned in this post that need clarifying.

There is no position of the mode switch that “isn’t used in the UK.” This is a popular misconception and either crossed hammers or square can be used to signify other work. You can find conformation of this on the Department for Transport site here. With the advent of the WTD the use of the hammers and the box changes take account of POAs.

The second thing is regarding the order that your name must be written on the disc. It is another, even more, popular misconception that the surname must go first. This has been debated on these boards a few times and after the last debate I contacted VOSA/DfT and made enquiries about this and they confirmed that it doesn’t matter which way round the names go as long as it is the full name and not an initial or nickname.

The misconception arises because in the regulations it says

Each driver must enter the following information on the record chart:

his or her surname and first name (before departing)

Note it says surname and first name not surname then first name. If it said then the order would matter but it doesn’t so you can put them in either order.

Remember these rules are written to cover most of Europe and over the water it is usual on any kind of form or document to write your surname first followed by your first name, I mean they even put the house number after the road name. :wink: :smiley:

Incidentally if your name is too long to fit in the space provided it is acceptable to use an initial or shortened form but the full names must then be written on the back of the chart.

12

Coffeeholic:
With the advent of the WTD the use of the hammers and the box changes take account of POAs.

Hi Coffeeholic,

I know what WTD is short for but POAs you have
got me on that one :slight_smile:

13

POA = Period Of Availability

Neil, glad you brought up about the name order, I’d been thinking it all thru’ my reading of the thread.

14

convoy:
the tachograph is a 24 hour instrument whereas its clock has only a 12 hour display. How would you make sure that you have it right :question:

trucknetuk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8363

15

convoy:
the tachograph is a 24 hour instrument .

Can I confuse issues & say unless it’s a 7 day tacho.
(The tacho equivilent of betamax or 8 track.)

16

I have always when actually driving moved mode switch to crossed hammers, when not driving but not resting then moved switch to square i.e. fuelling up, unloading etc and when actually resting i move switch to the bed symbol.

I have never had a problem with this either in UK or over the water and when the tacho’s come back from being checked there is no problems, but after reading this i am getting confused am i the mode switches correctly?

Wouldn’t it be nice if tacho switches had small(ish) writing next to the symbols saying “driving”,“other work” and “snoring” :smiley: :smiley: make it so much easier and a lot less confusing.

17

Nothing wrong with the way you are using the mode switches. Both Crossed Hammers and the Square can be used to signify other work. You could leave it on Square or crossed hammers all the time apart from breaks. Whichever mode it is on when you start driving it will be recorded automatically, unless you have a really, really old tacho head when you would need to switch it to the steering wheel symbol but it doesn’t sound like you have one of those.

18

The DFT web says that the cross hands is to define other work and the square box is to show other work and periods of availbilty.
Until the other day everything I’d read about tacho’s including stuff from the ministry said that we didn’t have to use the cross hands mode so all other work could be shown with the sqaure box symbol.
But I think because of the WTD this seems to have changed and now we can use the cross hands to show other work and the box to show POA’s if you are using the tacho card to record your Working Time under the WTD. This is really going to confuse some drivers I know who never move the mode off break (wrong I know, but they won’t be told) :unamused:

Please would another older driver tell me that when they did thier HGV training and question about tachos came up they were told the same about cross hands that it wasn’t nessesary to use them in the UK. I’m begining to think I’ve dreamed the last few years. :confused:

19

Well muckles I did my training in 1987 and it was OK to use crossed hammers then and has, as far as I’m aware, always been OK to use them in the UK. The information on the DFT site regarding crossed hammers and the square has been the same ever since I’ve been checking their site which is a few years now. There has, again as far as I’m aware, always been the option to use either to show other work. It has I think always been more popular to use the square to denote other work in this country which is maybe where the ‘not used in UK’ thing came from.

I’m sure drivers have been wrongly told over the years that crossed hammers aren’t used but even the police and tacho analysis people get it wrong. There was a tacho analysis firm who visited where I work out of to give us all a tacho talk and informed us that time spent on a ferry couldn’t be counted as a break. :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth: They also used to return as a defect any card were a driver had used a split rest option and taken an 8 hour daily rest, they don’t use that firm anymore. :wink: :smiley: :smiley:

20

According to the DSA “The official theory test for drivers of large vehicles” p77 question 2.56…

A tacho is fitted with a switch that allows you to select the task that you’re undertaking. Time spent on that task is recorded automatically. Each task has a different symbol. You should know the meaning so that your recoprds are correct. The symbols shown opposite are:

  1. Driving (steering wheel)
  2. Doing other work (square with line - jam butty)
  3. On duty and available for work (crossed hammers)
  4. taking a break or rest (bed)

This is the 2003 edition - the current one I believe.

HTH