Tachograph drive time and manual entries

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Ok, so since I was last here I am no longer a bus driver.

Seven weeks ago I took a temp job driving a class 2 curtain side for a well known ‘cheep alcoholic beverage’ shop. The job is ok, manually tiring and occasionally long hours, but it pays ok.

My problem is the Tachograph. Please read the following article:

backhousejones.co.uk/more-o … n-drivers/

I have been using the Tachograph every day as normal, unaware of the requirement to record every movement of my life (this just another way for the government to watch your every move! I took a sh*t at 5:30, do I put that in too?)

I’ve heard other drivers talk about “manual entries” but were unsure of what they are for and why, until last week when on a double drive my co-pilot took the time to explain it to me, but I still don’t get it.

Now, people may argue there is plenty of info out there on the tacho, and there is, but too much internet/YouTube stuff which is not sufficient in my view.

WHY is the Tachograph not a part of the training programme??
WHY have I not been told how important manual entries are and how to calculate them?
WHY does the DVLA not offer better training, maybe an online course?

This is clearly an omission by my employer, and when I’ve asked they have jumped in the cab and said “do this - this - and this…” which is great but useless at the same time.

I don’t have a problem with ‘operating’ the Tachograph but I am struggling with the ‘why’ and ‘what do I enter’?

My rant is over.

WTF does everyone else do? I seem to have a mental block with this whole thing, is there anything/anywhere anyone can recommend??

Thanks for listening

2

BusManSi:
Ok, so since I was last here I am no longer a bus driver.

Seven weeks ago I took a temp job driving a class 2 curtain side for a well known ‘cheep alcoholic beverage’ shop. The job is ok, manually tiring and occasionally long hours, but it pays ok.

My problem is the Tachograph. Please read the following article:

backhousejones.co.uk/more-o … n-drivers/

I have been using the Tachograph every day as normal, unaware of the requirement to record every movement of my life (this just another way for the government to watch your every move! I took a sh*t at 5:30, do I put that in too?)

I’ve heard other drivers talk about “manual entries” but were unsure of what they are for and why, until last week when on a double drive my co-pilot took the time to explain it to me, but I still don’t get it.

Now, people may argue there is plenty of info out there on the tacho, and there is, but too much internet/YouTube stuff which is not sufficient in my view.

WHY is the Tachograph not a part of the training programme??
WHY have I not been told how important manual entries are and how to calculate them?
WHY does the DVLA not offer better training, maybe an online course?

This is clearly an omission by my employer, and when I’ve asked they have jumped in the cab and said “do this - this - and this…” which is great but useless at the same time.

I don’t have a problem with ‘operating’ the Tachograph but I am struggling with the ‘why’ and ‘what do I enter’?

My rant is over.

WTF does everyone else do? I seem to have a mental block with this whole thing, is there anything/anywhere anyone can recommend??

Thanks for listening

If you’re a full-time driver, then it’s nothing to worry about, no one is trying to spy on you or want to know what you’re actually doing when you’re off.

When you drive under the EU regulations there’s a requirement to have records for the previous 28 days. This is any work you do which isn’t recorded on your card and all of your rest periods.

A typical example could be you arrive at work at 0600, into the office, get told what you’re doing and which truck, so it’s 0615 before you get into the truck and insert your card, so that needs recording as other work, do you shift, eject your card at 1800, then 15 mins giving paperwork and keys in, so that too needs recording as other work, you’re then on rest till 0600 the next morning where again it takes you 15 mins to insert your card

You put your card in, it’ll ask you if you want to do a manual entry, you say yes, so you need to add 15 minutes of other work from 1800 - 1815 then rest till 0600, then other work till 0615. Once you’ve done it a few times that will literally take 10 seconds. You now have a complete record on your card, the weekend is exactly the same with just one block of rest from say 1815 on Friday till 0600 on Monday, this will take you about 11 seconds. Take 2 weeks holiday, add 15 mins other work to the end of your last shift, big block of rest, then 15 mins other work to the beginning of your shift that’s starting. 13 seconds as a few presses to change the date!

youtu.be/8TTf64zC5uk

The only thing that has changed recently is you have to record the rest periods, holiday and sickness under the bed symbol, previous if you had no other work to add you didn’t need to record the rest period, so the time the card was out would be recorded as ? Which means unallocated time and unless there was evidence to the contrary was accepted as rest, most probably did this, but probably most should have been added other work too though, but anyone who was adding other work if they needed to, will have been recording the rest period anyway.

It’s more complicated for someone driving 1 day a month and working in the warehouse the rest of the time, but they still need the previous 28 days worth of records, for them it’ll normally be easier to write their records on the back of a printout

It’s not part of the driving training as not everyone doing their test will be driving under the EU regulations.

Probably because the employer doesn’t have much of a clue

Technically it’s your responsibility to keep yourself updated with the regulations, this is to be fair to them quite easy now as it’s all published online by the government/DVSA, you can also sign up the DVSAs moving on blog and you’ll be emailed any changes
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … s-vehicles.

Take your pick from the dcpc courses in tacho and regulations. Granted they don’t always get it right unfortunately.

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PaddyTheLorryDriver:
I screwed up my first go at manual entry and it thought I done other work for 28hrs

IMG-20220916-105512544

Told not to bother anymore and just pop my card in at the start. I always get there 10nin early and so my cards in at start time, takes about 2 min to get out and download my card at the end each day.

You still must record your rest period though though, so unless you’re doing it on a printout you’re not compliant.

And that’s poor from a company to tell you not to bother rather than show you.

Didn’t see the pic to start with, that’s not 28 hours of other work, that’s your 2 week driving time

5

That’s all very helpful, thanks. I’m going to give it a go tomorrow morning. Cheers.

stevieboy308:

BusManSi:
Ok, so since I was last here I am no longer a bus driver.

Seven weeks ago I took a temp job driving a class 2 curtain side for a well known ‘cheep alcoholic beverage’ shop. The job is ok, manually tiring and occasionally long hours, but it pays ok.

My problem is the Tachograph. Please read the following article:

backhousejones.co.uk/more-o … n-drivers/

I have been using the Tachograph every day as normal, unaware of the requirement to record every movement of my life (this just another way for the government to watch your every move! I took a sh*t at 5:30, do I put that in too?)

I’ve heard other drivers talk about “manual entries” but were unsure of what they are for and why, until last week when on a double drive my co-pilot took the time to explain it to me, but I still don’t get it.

Now, people may argue there is plenty of info out there on the tacho, and there is, but too much internet/YouTube stuff which is not sufficient in my view.

WHY is the Tachograph not a part of the training programme??
WHY have I not been told how important manual entries are and how to calculate them?
WHY does the DVLA not offer better training, maybe an online course?

This is clearly an omission by my employer, and when I’ve asked they have jumped in the cab and said “do this - this - and this…” which is great but useless at the same time.

I don’t have a problem with ‘operating’ the Tachograph but I am struggling with the ‘why’ and ‘what do I enter’?

My rant is over.

WTF does everyone else do? I seem to have a mental block with this whole thing, is there anything/anywhere anyone can recommend??

Thanks for listening

If you’re a full-time driver, then it’s nothing to worry about, no one is trying to spy on you or want to know what you’re actually doing when you’re off.

When you drive under the EU regulations there’s a requirement to have records for the previous 28 days. This is any work you do which isn’t recorded on your card and all of your rest periods.

A typical example could be you arrive at work at 0600, into the office, get told what you’re doing and which truck, so it’s 0615 before you get into the truck and insert your card, so that needs recording as other work, do you shift, eject your card at 1800, then 15 mins giving paperwork and keys in, so that too needs recording as other work, you’re then on rest till 0600 the next morning where again it takes you 15 mins to insert your card

You put your card in, it’ll ask you if you want to do a manual entry, you say yes, so you need to add 15 minutes of other work from 1800 - 1815 then rest till 0600, then other work till 0615. Once you’ve done it a few times that will literally take 10 seconds. You now have a complete record on your card, the weekend is exactly the same with just one block of rest from say 1815 on Friday till 0600 on Monday, this will take you about 11 seconds. Take 2 weeks holiday, add 15 mins other work to the end of your last shift, big block of rest, then 15 mins other work to the beginning of your shift that’s starting. 13 seconds as a few presses to change the date!

youtu.be/8TTf64zC5uk

The only thing that has changed recently is you have to record the rest periods, holiday and sickness under the bed symbol, previous if you had no other work to add you didn’t need to record the rest period, so the time the card was out would be recorded as ? Which means unallocated time and unless there was evidence to the contrary was accepted as rest, most probably did this, but probably most should have been added other work too though, but anyone who was adding other work if they needed to, will have been recording the rest period anyway.

It’s more complicated for someone driving 1 day a month and working in the warehouse the rest of the time, but they still need the previous 28 days worth of records, for them it’ll normally be easier to write their records on the back of a printout

It’s not part of the driving training as not everyone doing their test will be driving under the EU regulations.

Probably because the employer doesn’t have much of a clue

Technically it’s your responsibility to keep yourself updated with the regulations, this is to be fair to them quite easy now as it’s all published online by the government/DVSA, you can also sign up the DVSAs moving on blog and you’ll be emailed any changes
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … s-vehicles.

Take your pick from the dcpc courses in tacho and regulations. Granted they don’t always get it right unfortunately.

6

Yeah I agree about training. I’ve been doing manual entries when needed for years but nobody taught me about them as such, I just sort of figured it out over time but that first night (I worked nights at the time) I arrived into work to find we had a swanky new fleet with these things we put cards in that we’d been told to get it was like a mind blown moment as nobody knew what to do and nobody knew how to teach or what to show and there wasn’t much of it on the much smaller Internet back in those days.

In latter times when I was a trainer the place I worked for forked out for a simulator program that basically put a tacho unit on a laptop and allowed anyone to effectively practice without fear of spoiling their card.

But yeah don’t get too hot up about spying and all that. It’s all about showing. All it wants to know is if you’ve done some work without a card in (ie signing in/signing out) and what your rests are. That’s it.

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BusManSi:
My problem is the Tachograph. Please read the following article:

backhousejones.co.uk/more-o … n-drivers/

No wonder you’re confused after reading their overly dramatic output :unamused:
Unlike Commercial Union Insurance, BHJ love making a drama out of something that wasn’t even a crisis in the first place. (slogan for the oldies out there)
I blame BHJ for single-handedly creating the unnecessary panic over what is, for most drivers, just a simple manual entry once a week - RHA are as bad too, but they were just hanging onto the coat-tails of BHJ

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company i work for going down this route with recording rest/sick/holidays etc i now just put ? in after doing a manual entire between daily/weekly shifts so what do you use now the bed mode instead of ? i’m sure one of our drivers put bed mode in once and he got the tacho flashing up about needing a 24hr rest,

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wolter:
company i work for going down this route with recording rest/sick/holidays etc i now just put ? in after doing a manual entire between daily/weekly shifts so what do you use now the bed mode instead of ? i’m sure one of our drivers put bed mode in once and he got the tacho flashing up about needing a 24hr rest,

As long as you’re not working elsewhere? Then the bed [emoji2922] symbol apart from the 10 mins each end of the shift picking up/handing in keys.

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Those two words “manual entries” always makes me laugh out loud !

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wolter:
company i work for going down this route with recording rest/sick/holidays etc i now just put ? in after doing a manual entire between daily/weekly shifts so what do you use now the bed mode instead of ? i’m sure one of our drivers put bed mode in once and he got the tacho flashing up about needing a 24hr rest,

Just inputting “?” is precisely the thing they don’t want to see, you need to do a proper manual entry to show you’ve been on rest over the weekend. I suppose you really ought to do one at the end of every shift, but I’m not sure how picky they’re being. Definitely need to do one after your weekend off

Of course, none of this should be a problem with a Stoneridge tacho, so most Scania drivers are laughing

12

Zac_A:
Just inputting “?” is precisely the thing they don’t want to see, you need to do a proper manual entry to show you’ve been on rest over the weekend. I suppose you really ought to do one at the start of every shift, but I’m not sure how picky they’re being. Definitely need to do one after your weekend off

FTFY :wink:

13

Cheers, that what I get for trying to multi-task :laughing:

14

Thanks for the help. I’ve now jumped ship and am working for a very large logistics company who have been very good in helping me understand manual entries and have used a simulator and walked me through the process in my truck, I now have a much better grasp of It.

BusManSi:
That’s all very helpful, thanks. I’m going to give it a go tomorrow morning. Cheers.

stevieboy308:

BusManSi:
Ok, so since I was last here I am no longer a bus driver.

Seven weeks ago I took a temp job driving a class 2 curtain side for a well known ‘cheep alcoholic beverage’ shop. The job is ok, manually tiring and occasionally long hours, but it pays ok.

My problem is the Tachograph. Please read the following article:

backhousejones.co.uk/more-o … n-drivers/

I have been using the Tachograph every day as normal, unaware of the requirement to record every movement of my life (this just another way for the government to watch your every move! I took a sh*t at 5:30, do I put that in too?)

I’ve heard other drivers talk about “manual entries” but were unsure of what they are for and why, until last week when on a double drive my co-pilot took the time to explain it to me, but I still don’t get it.

Now, people may argue there is plenty of info out there on the tacho, and there is, but too much internet/YouTube stuff which is not sufficient in my view.

WHY is the Tachograph not a part of the training programme??
WHY have I not been told how important manual entries are and how to calculate them?
WHY does the DVLA not offer better training, maybe an online course?

This is clearly an omission by my employer, and when I’ve asked they have jumped in the cab and said “do this - this - and this…” which is great but useless at the same time.

I don’t have a problem with ‘operating’ the Tachograph but I am struggling with the ‘why’ and ‘what do I enter’?

My rant is over.

WTF does everyone else do? I seem to have a mental block with this whole thing, is there anything/anywhere anyone can recommend??

Thanks for listening

If you’re a full-time driver, then it’s nothing to worry about, no one is trying to spy on you or want to know what you’re actually doing when you’re off.

When you drive under the EU regulations there’s a requirement to have records for the previous 28 days. This is any work you do which isn’t recorded on your card and all of your rest periods.

A typical example could be you arrive at work at 0600, into the office, get told what you’re doing and which truck, so it’s 0615 before you get into the truck and insert your card, so that needs recording as other work, do you shift, eject your card at 1800, then 15 mins giving paperwork and keys in, so that too needs recording as other work, you’re then on rest till 0600 the next morning where again it takes you 15 mins to insert your card

You put your card in, it’ll ask you if you want to do a manual entry, you say yes, so you need to add 15 minutes of other work from 1800 - 1815 then rest till 0600, then other work till 0615. Once you’ve done it a few times that will literally take 10 seconds. You now have a complete record on your card, the weekend is exactly the same with just one block of rest from say 1815 on Friday till 0600 on Monday, this will take you about 11 seconds. Take 2 weeks holiday, add 15 mins other work to the end of your last shift, big block of rest, then 15 mins other work to the beginning of your shift that’s starting. 13 seconds as a few presses to change the date!

youtu.be/8TTf64zC5uk

The only thing that has changed recently is you have to record the rest periods, holiday and sickness under the bed symbol, previous if you had no other work to add you didn’t need to record the rest period, so the time the card was out would be recorded as ? Which means unallocated time and unless there was evidence to the contrary was accepted as rest, most probably did this, but probably most should have been added other work too though, but anyone who was adding other work if they needed to, will have been recording the rest period anyway.

It’s more complicated for someone driving 1 day a month and working in the warehouse the rest of the time, but they still need the previous 28 days worth of records, for them it’ll normally be easier to write their records on the back of a printout

It’s not part of the driving training as not everyone doing their test will be driving under the EU regulations.

Probably because the employer doesn’t have much of a clue

Technically it’s your responsibility to keep yourself updated with the regulations, this is to be fair to them quite easy now as it’s all published online by the government/DVSA, you can also sign up the DVSAs moving on blog and you’ll be emailed any changes
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … s-vehicles.

Take your pick from the dcpc courses in tacho and regulations. Granted they don’t always get it right unfortunately.

If you’re a full-time driver, then it’s nothing to worry about, no one is trying to spy on you or want to know what you’re actually doing when you’re off.

When you drive under the EU regulations there’s a requirement to have records for the previous 28 days. This is any work you do which isn’t recorded on your card and all of your rest periods.

A typical example could be you arrive at work at 0600, into the office, get told what you’re doing and which truck, so it’s 0615 before you get into the truck and insert your card, so that needs recording as other work, do you shift, eject your card at 1800, then 15 mins giving paperwork and keys in, so that too needs recording as other work, you’re then on rest till 0600 the next morning where again it takes you 15 mins to insert your card

You put your card in, it’ll ask you if you want to do a manual entry, you say yes, so you need to add 15 minutes of other work from 1800 - 1815 then rest till 0600, then other work till 0615. Once you’ve done it a few times that will literally take 10 seconds. You now have a complete record on your card, the weekend is exactly the same with just one block of rest from say 1815 on Friday till 0600 on Monday, this will take you about 11 seconds. Take 2 weeks holiday, add 15 mins other work to the end of your last shift, big block of rest, then 15 mins other work to the beginning of your shift that’s starting. 13 seconds as a few presses to change the date!

youtu.be/8TTf64zC5uk

The only thing that has changed recently is you have to record the rest periods, holiday and sickness under the bed symbol, previous if you had no other work to add you didn’t need to record the rest period, so the time the card was out would be recorded as ? Which means unallocated time and unless there was evidence to the contrary was accepted as rest, most probably did this, but probably most should have been added other work too though, but anyone who was adding other work if they needed to, will have been recording the rest period anyway.

It’s more complicated for someone driving 1 day a month and working in the warehouse the rest of the time, but they still need the previous 28 days worth of records, for them it’ll normally be easier to write their records on the back of a printout

It’s not part of the driving training as not everyone doing their test will be driving under the EU regulations.

Probably because the employer doesn’t have much of a clue

Technically it’s your responsibility to keep yourself updated with the regulations, this is to be fair to them quite easy now as it’s all published online by the government/DVSA, you can also sign up the DVSAs moving on blog and you’ll be emailed any changes
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … s-vehicles.

Take your pick from the dcpc courses in tacho and regulations. Granted they don’t always get it right unfortunately.
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Robroy will put you straight on this subject I believe it’s one of his chosen special topics on TN