Yes,thats what they said,I remember now,it had to go back to the workshop to be reset.
Yes,it went to break as soon as you stop.
Sploom:
Yes,thats what they said,I remember now,it had to go back to the workshop to be reset.
Yes,it went to break as soon as you stop.
Thanks for the answer.
So, in traffic it was showing “bed” even though you were sat there at a red-light or whatever, with the engine still running?
Bizarre set-up.
Yes,I do believe it did.But we got it reset eventually,but you cant be pressing it every time you stop at the lights but ,technically you need to do a printout and manual entries if it states you were on break when you werent,but I think,not even VOSA would want you to go that far would they…
Here’s the story of how it all went badly wrong.
Back in early 2004 all Digital Tachographs I’ll call them VU’s (Vehicle Units) from now on did the same thing. When the motion sensor indicated that the vehicle was moving the VU recorded ‘Driving.’ to slot one. This was selected automatically from whichever mode was being recorded before movement was detected. When the vehicle stopped moving the VU automatically recorded ‘Work’ to slot one. It was then up to the driver to select whatever mode they wished to record. Slot two, the co-driver recorded ‘availability’ automatically when movement started and remained recording ‘availability’ when the vehicle stopped moving. It was common to see records where the entire 24 hour period for slot two is recorded as ‘availability.’ This automatic selection of mode by the VU is covered by legislation and has NEVER been changed. This is what all VU’s must do, otherwise they will not receive Type Approval.
Around 2005 the first manufacturer to gain Type Approval was a little upset that they had very little market share, the market being dominated by VDO and the remainder Stoneridge (mainly Scania). The trade bodies in France were approached to see what would make people want to specify a particular VU. Apparently the answer came back that changing the mode from ‘work’ to ‘break/rest’ was all to difficult people wanted to go back to the situation that they were used to from the old analogue days where they could just leave the mode switch set on ‘break/rest’ and they didn’t have to think about it. So, Actia set about reading the legislation and determined that it was quite legal for the VU to change recorded mode when the ignition was turned on or off. To make matters more interesting they left the selection up to the individual driver by going into the ‘setting menu.’ Now, our friends in Germany and Sweden (homes of VDO and Stoneridge) cried ‘foul’ to the EU Technical Committee, who, after a period of navel gazing declared that what the VU does when the ignition is switched on or off was not covered by the legislation and consequently provided that the driver was able to change any automatic selection of mode the whole game was legal.
VDO adopted the approach that the choice of ignition triggered selection of mode would only be changeable with a ‘workshop card’ inserted into the VU. Stoneridge took the view that the ‘Company Card’ would be able to effect the choice in addition to the ‘Workshop Card.’ Actia carried on with anybody could decide what they wanted the VU to record automatically when the ignition was turned either on or off.
Effectively we now have just the two manufacturers; VDO and Stoneridge. Both VU’s will record ‘driving’ automatically and revert to ‘work’ when the vehicle becomes stationary. Both VU’s will allow the automatic selection of mode to both slots one and two when the ignition is turned on or off, modes available are; ‘work,’ ‘availability’ and ‘break/rest.’ The VDO VU still requires the ‘workshop card’ to change settings, the Stoneridge units may be programmed using a ‘company card.’ The legislation has been amended over the years to reflect these changes but still requires that the automatic change of mode may be manually overridden by the driver or co-driver pressing the mode button.
@ geebee45
Thanks for that great explanation 
To be honest I’d forgotten that Actia ever made digital tachographs for HGVs, they couldn’t have been very popular in the UK because I don’t recall ever seeing one let alone ever using one.
Hopefully it will now be accepted that after the vehicle stops the digital tachographs changes to work until either the mode is manually changed or the ignition is switched off.
But just in case anyone still disagrees
legislation.gov.uk/eur/2016 … ivision/48
It’s even in the VDO user manual.
My current unit defaults to other work when I stop driving and defaults to rest when I turn off ignition. It also stays on rest if I then turn ignition back on or start the vehicle.
It only changes from rest if I start moving. I actually like this and prefer it to how my previous truck worked.
Yes,I think thats how it should be
This also means I can’t forget to knock it on rest for the weekend.
I had forgotten to eject my card a few times and come to work on Monday and find it was still on other work all weekend. Pain in the ■■■■. Now that can’t happen.
JAKEY:
I have taken my last two M A N trucks to be changed to default to work when we first received them , I think it cost less than £20 ,saying that when they go in for the two year check ,you have to remind them what you want it to default to or your end up going back again .
All tachos come set from the manufacturer …Unless the jobcard states other wise ,they are left as is …Clever knowledgable customers will ask for it to be set to no change .Which means when you switch on the ignition when on a break ,it will not change and stays on break…When a vehicle comes in for a 2 yearly ,they should not be going near those settings unless asked to alter it …all that is altered on a 2 yearly is the calibration date and that is done automatically nowdays with the tool.and the time if it is out
Sploom:
They dont class breaks of less than 15 minutes.but then,no law against having a break for 1 minute
Agreed, but you run up against the problem/infringment? Of not showing 10 mins of other work prior to driving and 5 mins end of shift.
tachograph:
^^^^^
It should be remembered that the link provided by stu675 is guidance and the wording should not be taken as exact for the regulations.I imagine all the examples you’ve given are simply cases of wording not being precise, obviously we’ll have to ask them but I suspect that when other people in this thread say “stop” they really mean when they switch off the ignition.
As far as I’m aware the regulations about the automatic mode being “Work” when the vehicle stops moving has not changed since 2016.
legislation.gov.uk/eur/2016 … ivision/48I’ll wait to be proven wrong though
From memory some trucks were also fitted with the automatic analogue type tachos which switched between ‘other work’ and driving based on movement.
So stopped in traffic etc obviously created the situation of a false record being made on the chart.Bearing in mind there was no way to select driving manually.
The things were a total liability.
Carryfast:
From memory some trucks were also fitted with the automatic analogue type tachos which switched between ‘other work’ and driving based on movement.
So stopped in traffic etc obviously created the situation of a false record being made on the chart.Bearing in mind there was no way to select driving manually.
The things were a total liability.
How exactly was a false record created? If the wheels are rolling you are driving. If the wheels aren’t rolling you are in attendance but you are not physically moving/driving. Therefore by extension a driver in a vehicle that is in stationary traffic is carrying out “other work”. An aircraft on the ground is not flying, it’s a relatively simple concept.
tachograph:
stu675:
tachograph:
All digital tachographs default to other work when the vehicle stops moving,That’s just not true. It’s perfectly legal for them to default to rest every time you stop e.g. in a traffic jam.
I can assure you that all digital tachographs of the type used in HGVs automatically change to other work when the vehicle stops moving, in fact it’s not legal for the tachograph to automatically change to anything other than other work when the vehicle stops moving.
It’s written into the tachograph specifications “(48) When the vehicle stops, WORK shall be selected automatically for the driver”, I don’t really see how “Work” can be interpreted as anything other than other work.
I can assure you that all digital tachographs DO NOT automatically change to other work as soon as the vehicle stops. I have DEFINITELY had at least two rental units that automatically went to rest as soon as the vehicle stopped, one was very recent.
DAF_Daily:
tachograph:
stu675:
tachograph:
All digital tachographs default to other work when the vehicle stops moving,That’s just not true. It’s perfectly legal for them to default to rest every time you stop e.g. in a traffic jam.
I can assure you that all digital tachographs of the type used in HGVs automatically change to other work when the vehicle stops moving, in fact it’s not legal for the tachograph to automatically change to anything other than other work when the vehicle stops moving.
It’s written into the tachograph specifications “(48) When the vehicle stops, WORK shall be selected automatically for the driver”, I don’t really see how “Work” can be interpreted as anything other than other work.
I can assure you that all digital tachographs DO NOT automatically change to other work as soon as the vehicle stops. I have DEFINITELY had at least two rental units that automatically went to rest as soon as the vehicle stopped, one was very recent.
Then you should have defected the vehicles.
I’ve posted the regulations that show that digital tachographs have to change to work when the vehicle stops moving, I’ve posted a page from a VDO tachograph manual that shows that a digital tachograph changes to work when the vehicle stops moving, geebee45 who I believe used to train the DVSA bods has posted to say that digital tachographs must change to work when the vehicle stops moving, if you want to argue with the shown facts … carry on
I suggest that they actually switched to rest once the vehicle stopped AND you turned the ignition off.
the maoster:
Carryfast:
From memory some trucks were also fitted with the automatic analogue type tachos which switched between ‘other work’ and driving based on movement.
So stopped in traffic etc obviously created the situation of a false record being made on the chart.Bearing in mind there was no way to select driving manually.
The things were a total liability.How exactly was a false record created? If the wheels are rolling you are driving. If the wheels aren’t rolling you are in attendance but you are not physically moving/driving. Therefore by extension a driver in a vehicle that is in stationary traffic is carrying out “other work”. An aircraft on the ground is not flying, it’s a relatively simple concept.
It’s a false record because waiting and queuing in traffic etc in charge of a vehicle on the highway, as opposed to correctly parked, is driving not other work.
I don’t ever remember being told to switch a manual tacho to other work when waiting in traffic at traffic lights or at junctions to save driving time.Just as it’s illegal to use a mobile phone when waiting in traffic etc it’s still considered as driving in both cases.
By your logic you could book being stopped at a level crossing or every set of red traffic traffic lights as other work.Or if it’s a 15 minute or 30 minute hold up on the motorway, as break so long as you’re using the phone to watch YouTube and eating a sandwich.Good luck with that.
Carryfast:
the maoster:
Carryfast:
From memory some trucks were also fitted with the automatic analogue type tachos which switched between ‘other work’ and driving based on movement.
So stopped in traffic etc obviously created the situation of a false record being made on the chart.Bearing in mind there was no way to select driving manually.
The things were a total liability.How exactly was a false record created? If the wheels are rolling you are driving. If the wheels aren’t rolling you are in attendance but you are not physically moving/driving. Therefore by extension a driver in a vehicle that is in stationary traffic is carrying out “other work”. An aircraft on the ground is not flying, it’s a relatively simple concept.
It’s a false record because waiting and queuing in traffic etc in charge of a vehicle on the highway, as opposed to correctly parked, is driving not other work.
I don’t ever remember being told to switch a manual tacho to other work when waiting in traffic at traffic lights or at junctions to save driving time.Just as it’s illegal to use a mobile phone when waiting in traffic etc it’s still considered as driving in both cases.
By your logic you could book being stopped at a level crossing or every set of red traffic traffic lights as other work.Or if it’s a 15 minute or 30 minute hold up on the motorway, as break so long as you’re using the phone to watch YouTube and eating a sandwich.Good luck with that.
It’s certainly true that under UK domestic regulations being in control of a vehicle was, and still is, classed as driving, but under the EU regulations driving is defined as the time recorded (automatically or manually) by the tachograph as driving, so under EU regulations if the wheels are not turning you’re not driving.
Carryfast:
By your logic you could book being stopped at a level crossing or every set of red traffic traffic lights as other work.Or if it’s a 15 minute or 30 minute hold up on the motorway, as break so long as you’re using the phone to watch YouTube and eating a sandwich.Good luck with that.
I sometimes struggle to understand whether you are being deliberately obtuse or whether you are in fact as dim as a hand painted light bulb?
You don’t “book” other work when you pull up at a level crossing or set of red lights as the tachograph does that automatically for you. It’s as simple as that, there is no argument and can be no argument against that.
I’ll try to simplify it in a way you may understand as I appreciate that tachographs are a dim and distant memory for you; you go out for a walk but have to stop whilst waiting to cross a busy road, you may well still be engaged in going for a walk, but at that time at the kerb you are standing still, not walking. A subtly nuanced difference but still a difference nonetheless.
Carryfast:
the maoster:
Carryfast:
From memory some trucks were also fitted with the automatic analogue type tachos which switched between ‘other work’ and driving based on movement.
So stopped in traffic etc obviously created the situation of a false record being made on the chart.Bearing in mind there was no way to select driving manually.
The things were a total liability.How exactly was a false record created? If the wheels are rolling you are driving. If the wheels aren’t rolling you are in attendance but you are not physically moving/driving. Therefore by extension a driver in a vehicle that is in stationary traffic is carrying out “other work”. An aircraft on the ground is not flying, it’s a relatively simple concept.
It’s a false record because waiting and queuing in traffic etc in charge of a vehicle on the highway, as opposed to correctly parked, is driving not other work.
I don’t ever remember being told to switch a manual tacho to other work when waiting in traffic at traffic lights or at junctions to save driving time.Just as it’s illegal to use a mobile phone when waiting in traffic etc it’s still considered as driving in both cases.
By your logic you could book being stopped at a level crossing or every set of red traffic traffic lights as other work.Or if it’s a 15 minute or 30 minute hold up on the motorway, as break so long as you’re using the phone to watch YouTube and eating a sandwich.Good luck with that.
If you’d been stopped this century you’d perhaps realise that this is a non issue mostly because common sense is applied and a analogue tacho will just revert to whatever mode you left it on when you stop
tachograph:
It’s certainly true that under UK domestic regulations being in control of a vehicle was, and still is, classed as driving, but under the EU regulations driving is defined as the time recorded (automatically or manually) by the tachograph as driving, so under EU regulations if the wheels are not turning you’re not driving.
In this case it’s the UK definition of ‘Driving’ which applies regardless including UK work under EU hours regs.
That applies whether the vehicle is actually moving or not and applies whether it’s the drink drive limit or mobile phone use or making the correct drivers hours record regarding other work, or driving or break.
As I said we could have saved a lot of aggro in running out of driving time because of traffic delays, by switching a manual tacho to break or duty at every opportunity when the wheels weren’t turning.
Or for that matter making manual entries to ‘correct’ the dodgy trace created by automatic tachos switching to duty at every traffic hold up.