Heres a question for you all, doesn’t really apply to me but i am curious.
I used to drive a 7.5 tonner horsebox without tacho because it was for private use, theoretically could i drive an 18 tonner horsebox nowadays (privately) without a disc in? Or if i ever get round to buying a classic wagon, can i drive that without a disc.
The reason i ask is because i heard that the rules have changed and i suspect that it would affect a lot of people with hgv horseboxes or who have restored classic wagons etc.
My understanding was that providing you had the necessary licence, you could drive anything you like under private usage regs, without a tachograph in. 
As far as I know ,if you are not using the motor for commercial purpose then no need for tacho.Best wait for Rog though.
alamcculloch:
As far as I know ,if you are not using the motor for commercial purpose then no need for tacho.Best wait for Rog though.
Yep, i’m sure the resident tacho regs guru will be along soon with the correct advise 
you wouldn’t need a tacho or o-licence for private use, whatever the gross weight.
however if you are carrying horses that belong to you, then i would expect you would need a restricted o-licence, and a standard if you carry horses that don’t belong to you. you would be required to use a tacho unless it’s only used locally.
the rules changed last april ( or the one before)
you are only exempt tacho regs for private use on vehicles of 7.5 tone or less - anything else needs a card in ( although there is an exemption for TA use )
limeyphil:
you wouldn’t need a tacho or o-licence for private use, whatever the gross weight.however if you are carrying horses that belong to you, then i would expect you would need a restricted o-licence, and a standard if you carry horses that don’t belong to you. you would be required to use a tacho unless it’s only used locally.
you’d better get your favourite TC to read the rules to you again 
alamcculloch:
Best wait for Rog though.
or even someone who knows the rules
IIRC rog answered something like this before and it involves the interpretation of the phrase “hire and reward” if one horse were to win a rosette a proper jobsworth would call that a reward
welshboyinspain:
IIRC rog answered something like this before and it involves the interpretation of the phrase “hire and reward” if one horse were to win a rosette a proper jobsworth would call that a reward
can you show me a case where this has actually happened ?
In the real world it works like this ;
take your own horse to a show as your hobby - no O licence needed
run a horse business and take your horse to a show - get an O licence
crickrichard:
theoretically could i drive an 18 tonner horsebox nowadays (privately) without a disc in?
Either in theory or reality since 11 April 2007 you have to use the tacho. Hire and reward has nothing to do with it as it is down to weight. A vehicle with a maximum permissible mass exceeding 7.5 tonnes is not exempt from using a tachograph.
crickrichard:
Or if i ever get round to buying a classic wagon, can i drive that without a disc.
There is an exemption for vehicles that have a historic status according to the legislation of the Member State in which they are driven as long as they are not being used for the commercial carriage of goods. In the UK, a vehicle is a historic vehicle if it was manufactured more than 25 years before the occasion on which it is being driven, so make sure you classic is over 25 years old.
Denis F:
welshboyinspain:
IIRC rog answered something like this before and it involves the interpretation of the phrase “hire and reward” if one horse were to win a rosette a proper jobsworth would call that a rewardcan you show me a case where this has actually happened ?
In the real world it works like this ;
take your own horse to a show as your hobby - no O licence needed
run a horse business and take your horse to a show - get an O licence
Er no denis can’t show you a case as i don’t seem to have my library of recently tried cases in the courts 
in the real world was trying to answer someones question but think i’ll leave well alone next time
welshboyinspain:
IIRC rog answered something like this before and it involves the interpretation of the phrase “hire and reward” if one horse were to win a rosette a proper jobsworth would call that a reward
Denis F:
can you show me a case where this has actually happened ?In the real world it works like this ;
take your own horse to a show as your hobby - no O licence needed
run a horse business and take your horse to a show - get an O licence
When this rosette example was told to me by VOSA they did say that ‘technically’ this is the law.
Going 1 mph over the speed limit is also ‘technically’ breaking the law… 
ROG:
When this rosette example was told to me by VOSA they did say that ‘technically’ this is the law.
Going 1 mph over the speed limit is also ‘technically’ breaking the law…
and hopefully in both cases common sense would prevail
Denis F:
ROG:
When this rosette example was told to me by VOSA they did say that ‘technically’ this is the law.
Going 1 mph over the speed limit is also ‘technically’ breaking the law…and hopefully in both cases common sense would prevail
That’s what I was getting at
How about a 18t turned into a mobile home ■■? Tacho or no tacho■■?
Just askin
nick2008:
How about a 18t turned into a mobile home ■■? Tacho or no tacho■■?Just askin
If the plate says the weight is over 7.5 tonnes then tacho required
I spoke to DVLA & VOSA on this issue a few weeks ago and they said -
DVLA - “It is all down to the weight in regard to the licence on private vehicles”
VOSA - “It is all down to the plated weight in regard to the tacho regs on private vehicles”
I did not enquire about those with over 8 seats so am unsure on PCV issues…
Coffeeholic:
crickrichard:
theoretically could i drive an 18 tonner horsebox nowadays (privately) without a disc in?Either in theory or reality since 11 April 2007 you have to use the tacho. Hire and reward has nothing to do with it as it is down to weight. A vehicle with a maximum permissible mass exceeding 7.5 tonnes is not exempt from using a tachograph.
crickrichard:
Or if i ever get round to buying a classic wagon, can i drive that without a disc.There is an exemption for vehicles that have a historic status according to the legislation of the Member State in which they are driven as long as they are not being used for the commercial carriage of goods. In the UK, a vehicle is a historic vehicle if it was manufactured more than 25 years before the occasion on which it is being driven, so make sure you classic is over 25 years old.
That makes sense, thanks. Although how many rich folk with hgv horseboxes who’ve had a licence for years now are running around unaware of the law and are consequently breaking it through ignorance?
Right i’m off to think of another question for you lot!
crickrichard:
That makes sense, thanks. Although how many rich folk with hgv horseboxes who’ve had a licence for years now are running around unaware of the law and are consequently breaking it through ignorance?
Not as many as you would think as it’s been pretty well covered on the horsey type websites and publications, and most of 'em are up in arms about it.
Coffeeholic:
crickrichard:
That makes sense, thanks. Although how many rich folk with hgv horseboxes who’ve had a licence for years now are running around unaware of the law and are consequently breaking it through ignorance?Not as many as you would think as it’s been pretty well covered on the horsey type websites and publications, and most of 'em are up in arms about it.
indeed