Tacho Confusion!

[darb]

Hi eveyone and happy new year

Im a new driver and have been working for a few weeks now, but I’ve been getting conflicting information from other drivers which is making recording my hours even more confusing

I’ve been told that If I am waiting to be loaded this is POA and is included in my driving time !! EG If I pull onto site and have a 45 min break then wait around for another 1 1/2 hours then I must have a break after 3 hours of driving ■■ but I’ve also been told that my 4 1/2 hours driving starts from being loading and my drive actually started

I have also been told that as soon as I move the truck to be loaded thats when my driving time starts ( even if it is a few yards and then it takes half hour to load) one driver informed me that I have two minutes to move into my loading positon, any longer and its the start of my drive

Also what actually goes into the the final column on my weekly Tacho envelope ( TOTAL WORKING TIME ) ive been told its total drive time and Ive also been told its my total hours for the day !!

thats it for now

Cheers folks

[wheel_nut]

Darb:
Hi eveyone and happy new year

Happy New Year

Im a new driver and have been working for a few weeks now, but I’ve been getting conflicting information from other drivers which is making recording my hours even more confusing

That’s par for the course in transport

I’ve been told that If I am waiting to be loaded this is POA and is included in my driving time !! EG If I pull onto site and have a 45 min break then wait around for another 1 1/2 hours then I must have a break after 3 hours of driving ■■ but I’ve also been told that my 4 1/2 hours driving starts from being loading and my drive actually started

POA is not included in driving time, nor included in working time.
If you pull onto site and have 45 minutes break, you can then drive for 4.5 hours. If you have 45 minutes POA, you haven’t had a break.

I have also been told that as soon as I move the truck to be loaded thats when my driving time starts ( even if it is a few yards and then it takes half hour to load) one driver informed me that I have two minutes to move into my loading positon, any longer and its the start of my drive

When you move your truck onto the loading pad, that movement is counted towards your driving time whether it is a few yards or One minute, Two minutes, Ten minutes or Three hours, it is all driving time.

Also what actually goes into the the final column on my weekly Tacho envelope ( TOTAL WORKING TIME ) ive been told its total drive time and Ive also been told its my total hours for the day !!

It is total driving time plus total working time, excluding POA, Rest and Breaks

thats it for now

Cheers folks

Coffeholic will be along shortly to tell you, If it qualifies for POA it also qualifies for Break.

Rest and Break are different animals

Enjoy 2011

Cheers Rog

[dieseldave]

Hi Darb,

I’ve moved your post to where it can be better discussed.

[stevieboy308]

hi,

best thing to do is read up on all the regs, if someone tells you to do something different then go back and read up on that bit, they might be right, they might be wrong! then make your own mind up, its your neck on the block so to speak and not dave who’s been doing the job for 40 years if you get pulled up on something.

but basically

driving time is time spent driving. if you drive 2 mins then stop, you’ve drove for 2 mins

other work is doing any work other than driving - fueling up, paperwork, vehicle checks, loading / unloading yourself (handball / pump truck / hiab etc), supervising loading / unloading, etc.

add these 2 up to give you your worked hours for the day, as far as the working time directive is concerned.

breaks, time spent doing nowt to comply with driving hours regs and wtd. this can be tipping on a bay if you’re not involved, waiting to load, in a layby etc. doesn’t count towards working time

poa , basically the same as criteria as above but in theory you need to know in advance how long you’ll be waiting. doesn’t count as working time

rest either daily or weekly. break and rest often called each other often leading to confusion.

when talking to other drivers you need to know if they’re on about paid hours or wtd hours, the same goes for timesheets.
eg.

you start work at 0500 and finish at 1800, you do 8 hours driving, 2 hours other work, 1 hour break and 2 hours poa. that means 10 hours worked for the wtd (driving + other work). if your company knock off half an hour a day then that would be 12.5 paid hours or worked as some might say.

thats all very simplistic, so have a read up yourself as there’s alot more to it!!!

stevie

[tachograph]

Darb:
Hi eveyone and happy new year

Im a new driver and have been working for a few weeks now, but I’ve been getting conflicting information from other drivers which is making recording my hours even more confusing

I’ve been told that If I am waiting to be loaded this is POA and is included in my driving time !! EG If I pull onto site and have a 45 min break then wait around for another 1 1/2 hours then I must have a break after 3 hours of driving ■■ but I’ve also been told that my 4 1/2 hours driving starts from being loading and my drive actually started

Driving time is the time that the tachograph records as driving time so if the tachograph does not record it as driving time then it is not driving time as far as the drivers hours and tachograph regulations are concerned.
Your 4.5 hours driving time is calculated as driving time and only driving time, that’s basically when the wheels are turning.
POA is not included as driving time and nor is break.

Basically there are 4 modes recorded on the tachograph, driving, other work, POA and break/rest, neither “other work” “POA” or break counts towards the driving time

Darb:
I have also been told that as soon as I move the truck to be loaded thats when my driving time starts ( even if it is a few yards and then it takes half hour to load) one driver informed me that I have two minutes to move into my loading positon, any longer and its the start of my drive

If you move the truck for 2 minutes to put it on a bay then wait for 30 minutes whilst the vehicle is being loaded/unloaded you have done 2 minutes driving and 30 minutes either break or POA or other work depending what mode you set the tachograph to.
The driver who told you that you have 2 minutes driving before your driving time starts is a bloody fool and should be ignored before he gets you into trouble.

Here is a link to the drivers hours and tachograph regulations, I suggest you read them and post here if there is anything you are not sure about, it seems that you are getting some pretty bad information from various people.
If you ask the questions here you can be sure that you will get good information because even if someone inadvertently gives you wrong information you can be sure there will be plenty of others who will quickly correct it.

Good luck

[darb]

Cheers people

Replies were great, I’m starting to get my head around it now, I think

[alix776]

What you are being told is the the company you are at presfers it if poa is used while waiting to load

As for you other question I’m trying to be nasty but was this not covered in you dcpc

[wheel_nut]

alix776:
What you are being told is the the company you are at prefers it if poa is used while waiting to load

But the information is not from the company, it is from “other drivers” who are talking bolderdash, about driving time and being allowed to move as long as it is under 2 minutes

[kiowan]

If I only have one suggestion, it’s that you don’t listen to a thing another driver tells you about working time directive or drivers hours. I made a point of reading up from official sources and learning the rules before I started driving and the amount of crap I was told and listened in on was unbelievable. The real problem is that they all swear blind they’re right and won’t listen to you, just the usual know it all drivers yammering on “I been driving for 200 years, and i’m telling you this and that”. Most drivers don’t seem to know the rules at all and some of the crap they say, like what you’ve been told is laughable. At first you’ll try to challenge them and correct them but sooner or later you give up as it’s like trying to educate a goldfish. Just yesterday I had some driver telling me that it was illegal to take a break on a company premises and that if VOSA caught you you’d be banged up wouldn’t shut up about it either.

The good ones are the drivers who have stories about calling the police into tesco and getting coned off on the bay for an 11 hour break and having them arrest the goods in staff if they disturb him

Some drivers know their stuff, usually the ones that aren’t scruffy, gobby and fat but to be on the safe side it’s best just to ignore everything anyone says regarding WTD/Tachos.

[gm]

One thing which is confusing - you need to be aware -
once you have had 45 minutes on POA the tacho will reset to 0:00 driving time - thus you think you have 4.5 hrs driving left - WRONG
you must have a 45 minute break with the tacho on Break mode to reset the driving time to 0:00 not POA mode
regards
Steve

[santa]

Best advice is don’t use POA unless your employer insists.

[coffeeholic]

Santa:
Best advice is don’t use POA unless your employer insists.

This^

[darb]

Kiowan:
The real problem is that they all swear blind they’re right and won’t listen to you, just the usual know it all drivers yammering on “I been driving for 200 years, and i’m telling you this and that”. Most drivers don’t seem to know the rules at all and some of the crap they say, like what you’ve been told is laughable. At first you’ll try to challenge them and correct them but sooner or later you give up as it’s like trying to educate a goldfish.

Yesterday I was waiting to be loaded, whilst waiting I got chatting to one of our other drivers, as it was a run I had not done before he was giving me some “advice” He said " you wont get to your drop off and back to the yard within your hours so will need a break" Then he continued to tell me the way he does it is to have a 30 minute break after tipping then 15 minutes closer to home. I “suggested” that that was illegal as if you split the 45 minutes then the last part needs to be at least 30 minutes, to which he replies " Bo**ocks, the law states you must have 45 minutes and it can be split into a 15 and a 30 " I tried to convince him that your last break must be 30 minutes, I even went on t’internet and shown him this

He just said that both me and the government site were wrong as no one had told him and he has always done it his way and has been pulled by vosa and no one mentioned it, so he must be right

[coffeeholic]

Darb:

Kiowan:
The real problem is that they all swear blind they’re right and won’t listen to you, just the usual know it all drivers yammering on “I been driving for 200 years, and i’m telling you this and that”. Most drivers don’t seem to know the rules at all and some of the crap they say, like what you’ve been told is laughable. At first you’ll try to challenge them and correct them but sooner or later you give up as it’s like trying to educate a goldfish.

Yesterday I was waiting to be loaded, whilst waiting I got chatting to one of our other drivers, as it was a run I had not done before he was giving me some “advice” He said " you wont get to your drop off and back to the yard within your hours so will need a break" Then he continued to tell me the way he does it is to have a 30 minute break after tipping then 15 minutes closer to home. I “suggested” that that was illegal as if you split the 45 minutes then the last part needs to be at least 30 minutes, to which he replies " ■■■■■■■■, the law states you must have 45 minutes and it can be split into a 15 and a 30 " I tried to convince him that your last break must be 30 minutes, I even went on t’internet and shown him this

0

He just said that both me and the government site were wrong as no one had told him and he has always done it his way and has been pulled by vosa and no one mentioned it, so he must be right

He’s a trumpet.

Usually the last line of defence from these sort of people is claiming to have been pulled/checked by VOSa and there was no problem. This simply confirms that he is a trumpet and talking ■■■■■■■■ because if he had been pulled doing it that way round he would have been nicked.

Sadly too many drivers prefer the MMTM, or apparently in his case the NOTM, version to the actual regulations, even when shown that they are indeed wrong.

[darb]

MMTM NOTM ■■?

[coffeeholic]

Darb:
MMTM NOTM ■■?

MMTM = My Mate Told Me

NOTM = No One Told Me

[darb]

Coffeeholic:

Darb:
MMTM NOTM ■■?

MMTM = My Mate Told Me

NOTM = No One Told Me

Ha ha

[simon]

Listening to discussions on MMTM (NOTM) rules can be quite entertaining.

If you start thinking ‘hmmmmm, that sounds like it could quite feasible’, check the drivers hours and tachograph rules handbook first. They might be correct, it’ can be quite surprising, what is or isn’t a legal shift. That is the same link that Tachograph posted, it’s to the handbook issued by VOSA for truck drivers but it ISN’T the actual regulations.

Just inside the cover is this -
Disclaimer
This publication gives general guidance only and should not be regarded as a complete or authoritative statement of the law. The guidance will be updated to reflect any developments in new legislation or case law.
If you wish to check the legal position, you should refer to the main legislation listed in Annex 1 and, if necessary, seek your own legal advice. The guidance offered in this publication reflects VOSA’s current enforcement policy. It does not reflect interpretation of the law in other countries.

So be aware is all I’m saying.

[darb]

Cheers Simon

Now I’m even more confused so the stuff I’ve been reading is only a guide and not the law ■■

DARB

[coffeeholic]

Darb:
Now I’m even more confused so the stuff I’ve been reading is only a guide and not the law ■■

Presuming you have been reading the VOSA guide then yes, in the same way The Highway Code is just a guide and not law. What you have been reading is the regulations in an easier to understand way so not the official wording but an explanation of it.