I’m doing occasional weekends for Driver Hire, The guy seemed to be happy with me filling in a time sheet with numbers of hours worked only for my work during the week. He at least seemed more knowledgeable than the other agency bloke that I signed with in that he seemed to know about the tacho regs whereas the other agency only seemed to care about driving days I think its because the guy at Driver Hire was an occasional driver too.
I’ve worked out the hours and because I have Thursdays off it means that I can drive all weekend, provided its every other weekend and my shift doesn’t start earlier than 12:15am on Saturday or end later than 11:00pm Sunday. (9 hours gap to day job)
Anyway enough waffle, does anybody know whether I have to fill in an actual manual tacho chart for my working days during the week, cos I thought about it last night and reckoned that a simple time sheet with a column for ‘other hours worked’ is OK for WTD, but not for tacho regs. Can I keep my own time sheet or do I have to go to the bother of filling out manual tacho charts. I have gone to the precaution of buying a packet of tacho charts just in case, but can anybody give me a pointer as to what to do?
In my opinion you should fill the charts in for those days. This document has the details. Article 4(e) and Article 6, Section 5 are the relevant parts.
The regs seem to give no provision for recording unless its on a tacho chart, digi printout, or manual entry on tacho card. I’ll make a whole load up and just date them if I get called onto a job, cos my hours never change.
If you are an ‘occasional driver’ then you don’t need to record all your work on a tacho graph. Off the top of my head i can’t remember what constitutes an occasional driver, but it is some thing like x amount of hours in x amount of weeks. I think the amount of weeks is actually 17. So it really depends on what hours you actually drive under EU regs in the 17 week period. I’ll look 2moro and tell you more but it really depends upon what hours you are, or think you are going to drive in a 4 month period.
Mike, if he drives a tacho equipped vehicle on just one day of the week he falls under EU Driver’s Hours Rules which means he has to observe the weekly rest periods and the daily rest periods for the days he actually drives in that week. This means he has to comply with all aspects of the rules and the new regulations, April 11 2007, require record keeping for the days he works but doesn’t drive under EU rules in that week, even for a different employer.
Article 4 (e) ‘other work’ means all activities which are defined as working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC except ‘driving’, including any work for the same or another employer, within or outside of the transport sector;
Article 6.5 A driver shall record as other work any time spent as described in Article 4(e) as well as any time spent driving a vehicle used for commercial operations not falling within the scope of this Regulation, and shall record any periods of availability, as defined in Article 15(3)(c) of Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85, since his last daily or weekly rest period. This record shall be entered either manually on a record sheet, a printout or by use of manual input facilities on recording equipment.
I can find no mention of an exemption for an occasional driver in the list of exemptions contained within the regulations. There is an exemption in the case of a vehicle that is only used within a 50 km. radius of the operating centre and driving does not constitute the driver’s main activity, but that wouldn’t apply in this case.
Mike, if he drives a tacho equipped vehicle on just one day of the week he falls under EU Driver’s Hours Rules which means he has to observe the weekly rest periods and the daily rest periods for the days he actually drives in that week. This means he has to comply with all aspects of the rules and the new regulations, April 11 2007, require record keeping for the days he works but doesn’t drive under EU rules in that week, even for a different employer.
Does he have to use a tacho to record the “other work” that he does for his main employer (assume flexitime office worker for this purpose) or can it be recorded on say, a spreadsheet? - it does seem a bit daft if he had to fill in lots of tachos because he works a saturday as a LGV driver.
If I got this right, he would need to fill in about 15 tachos when doing other work because of a LGV saturday - or am I on the wrong track here
Mike, if he drives a tacho equipped vehicle on just one day of the week he falls under EU Driver’s Hours Rules which means he has to observe the weekly rest periods and the daily rest periods for the days he actually drives in that week. This means he has to comply with all aspects of the rules and the new regulations, April 11 2007, require record keeping for the days he works but doesn’t drive under EU rules in that week, even for a different employer.
Does he have to use a tacho to record the “other work” that he does for his main employer (assume flexitime office worker for this purpose) or can it be recorded on say, a spreadsheet? - it does seem a bit daft if he had to fill in lots of tachos because he works a saturday as a LGV driver.
If I got this right, he would need to fill in about 15 tachos when doing other work because of a LGV saturday - or am I on the wrong track here
There seems to be no other option in the regulations other than to record this Other Work by use of - a record sheet, a printout or by use of manual input facilities on recording equipment. The driver only falls under EU regulations in a week in which he drives a tacho equipped vehicle so he would only need to keep records for the other days in that week, say Monday to Friday along with his record for Saturday if that is the day he actually drives. Yes it does seem a bit daft but that seems to be what is required since the rule changes. I’m guessing the main point is to be able to check sufficient daily rest was taken on the days he actually drove but it does seem open to abuse.
Oooook this is getting even more confusing…I only need to fill in the 4 tachos for the week that I actually drive? I don’t need to provide 15 days worth of tachos if I don’t drive in those weeks? The way I read the regs, the 15 days still applies even if I fall outside the EU regs. This is where the regulations confuse themselves, because it really doesn’t allow for this type of situation IMO. I’m thoroughly confused
pettaw:
Oooook this is getting even more confusing…I only need to fill in the 4 tachos for the week that I actually drive? I don’t need to provide 15 days worth of tachos if I don’t drive in those weeks?
No, I don’t think you do. On the week ends you do no driving and only work at your other job you are not under EU rules so don’t need to keep records. If a driver is stopped in a control he must be able to produce:
(i)the record sheets for the current week and those used the previous 15 days;
(ii) the driver card if he holds one, and
(iii) any manual record and printout made during the current week and the previous 15 days as required under this Regulation and Regulation (EC) No 561/2006.
As I see it records for the week in which you only do your regular job are not required under the regulations so the only manual records required to be produced are those you had to make in the week(s) you drove on the Saturday or Sunday.
I probably won’t ever get stopped by VOSA on a weekend anyway, and even if I do, will they know the regs anyway There’s at least one post where someone on here has been stopped by VOSA and they give a different interpretation of the regs. As for the agency advisors As I say only one of them seemed to have any clue whatever and that’s because he drove sometimes as well.
Incidentally he mentioned something about ‘occasional driver’ regs too, but I’ve not been able to find mention of them. Any info from Mike-C would be useful.
I’ll carry only tachos for the weeks I’m driving in then and at least I can stand up for myself now anyway, if I do get stopped.
pettaw:
Incidentally he mentioned something about ‘occasional driver’ regs too, but I’ve not been able to find mention of them.
I think that is WTD related rather than Tacho Rules. I see nothing in the Driver’s Hours Regulations which exempts drivers from record keeping requirements based on only driving for a certain number of days within a set period.
To answer a few of the points raised, but in no particular order;
VOSA do work weekends and ‘out of hours,’ there is much talk at the moment about changes to working practises and should a rolling shift pattern be introduced for enforcement staff.
Record keeping; if you drive under EC rules during a week (00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sunday) then, obviously you must keep a tacho record (digital or analogue) for the day you do the driving. Because you have driven an EC controlled vehicle that week you need to make manual records of your ‘other work’ and ‘availability’ for the period between your last weekly rest and the time you started your driving shift. If you do NO EC driving in a week, you don’t need to keep a record. The manual record must be kept on either;
= a record sheet (defined in 3821/85 but we’ll call it a tacho chart)
= a digital printout, or
= using the manual entry facility of a digital tachograph to store data on a driver card.
These are the ONLY ways data can be recorded, timesheets, manual logs, diaries etc will not do.
Record production; if requested, you must be able to produce record sheets and manual records covering the current week and previous 15 calendar days and your driver card (if you have one). On 01/01/2008 this changes to current day and previous 28 calendar days. If during those periods you were required to make a manual record, then you have to be able to produce it. If you had a non driving week, then you wouldn’t need to keep a manual record during that week, therefore you wouldn’t need to produce it After the production period is over return records to your employer so they may store them for 12 months (from date the record was made). If you come into WTD and this is the only record of your work they must store record for 2 years.
Occasional drivers; these exist only under WTD, Drivers CPC and under Domestic Hours Rules (although not called the same thing under this legislation). As far as EC driving is concerned, there is no such thing.
Coffeeholic:
I could be wrong but that is how I read it.
But it appears I wasn’t
I was !! (wrong). Of course as both you and geebee have said it is a RTD thing i was refering to. Just so you know i wasn’t making it up it was here i read it (amongst other places) vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/reposit … 0Facts.pdf
If you drive a vehicle with a digital tacho is it possible to enter start/end times for all you shifts during the week or just the last 24 hours?
Given that the idea of digitising records is that eventually all records are on the card or VU so no paper is required I’d expect this function to be available.
One day I might actually get to use my card so it’d be handy to know this.
Tony1968:
If you drive a vehicle with a digital tacho is it possible to enter start/end times for all you shifts during the week or just the last 24 hours?
Given that the idea of digitising records is that eventually all records are on the card or VU so no paper is required I’d expect this function to be available.
One day I might actually get to use my card so it’d be handy to know this.
When you insert the card you’re given the option to do manual entry’s for the end of the last shift worked (after the card was last withdrawn) and the beginning of the current shift (before the card was inserted).
Tony1968:
If you drive a vehicle with a digital tacho is it possible to enter start/end times for all you shifts during the week or just the last 24 hours?
Given that the idea of digitising records is that eventually all records are on the card or VU so no paper is required I’d expect this function to be available.
One day I might actually get to use my card so it’d be handy to know this.
When you insert the card you’re given the option to do manual entry’s for the end of the last shift worked (after the card was last withdrawn) and the beginning of the current shift (before the card was inserted).
I think its because the guy at Driver Hire was an occasional driver too.
There’s at least one post where someone on here has been stopped by VOSA and they give a different interpretation of the regs. As for the agency advisors 
But it appears I wasn’t 
