Suttons Tankers Dispute

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
121

albion:
I once went through Windmill Hill , not by choice. Not sure what it was, interbreeding, affect of chemicals, but it were right scarey!

So you are working on what you think is fair for this area. Is that the same as what you think you should be paid. Would you be happy at £10.00 an hour, or feel you are worth more?

It’s not what is FAIR for the area mate, it is simply the reality of what is being offered.

I have managed to claw my way through all the crap employers and have found myself on £28,200 plus bonus for Mon-Fri curtainsider work 48 hours a week. Although I would not normally advocate salary, in this instance it’s own account job & knock work.

So to answer your Q Albion, no I would’nt be happy on £10 per hour, and I feel I am worth £29k pa :grimacing:

122

So the odd one or two that are left who will speak up, are written off and labelled as militant troublemakers (which fits in nice with their agenda btw) where as in reality all they are asking for, and expecting, is a bit of respect and fairness. …nothing more nothing less. …apart from not being routinely treated like dog crap on someone’s shoe. yup ROBROY that is what happens I spoke up about strange wage practices at the large hauler in the rural area I lived when I was 25yrs old, nobody else would say boo but they really bent me over (gave me 100pound for a weeks tramping early 80s) I was given the if you don’t like it KF off …I took it as far as I could and got a payout BUT was banned for life from hauling there trailers even on for other companies/on their property,even getting a lift back up the road from friends!. I tried 10yrs later working for a guy that hauled there trailers yup he was told I HAD TO GO! also the other big area company blackballed me as well no one likes a driver that wont bend over. spent the next 23yrs wae local company before leaving uk. would I do it again and stand up …HELL YEAH it caused me problems but at least I could look in the mirror. jimmy. sorry not suttons related.

123

robroy:

eagerbeaver:
For me personally, I don’t believe any man or woman should step into an artic for less than £10 per hour, regardless of market forces.

As for specialist roles, it’s difficult to say. Nights/weekends/days/4on4off etc, all play a part. Location is also another factor too.

It’s all academic though Albion if people are willing to work for crap rates of pay :neutral_face:

Until drivers start boycotting these idiotic race to the bottom types, nothing will change.

Can’t argue with any of that mate.

You and me are usually on the same wavelength on this type of stuff, but as you point out, there are a few cases with mitigating circumstances for guys working on a lower wage than they perhaps should be working for ideally.

You know who I work for bud, and we both know they aint exactly famous for being top payers, or for a charitable attitude towards their drivers either tbh. (although tbf my depot aint TOO bad)

In my case 2 of my previous 3 jobs, all outbased, 2 abroad and 1 in SE England, were very good payers, they looked after me in many ways, and my attitude towards them reflected that, until redundancy hit me…twice.

Thing is I was faced with the situation that jobs in my area are all about the same, so I had no choice in having to take a pay cut, and a reduction in t.s and c.s. into the bargain.
I hated it at first but stuck it out, set my own paces, and managed to make a good number for myself which suited me.
Then a couple of years ago a Dutch firm who I had previously pestered, rang me saying I was still on their records and was I still after a job.
I weighed the situation up and decided although I would be better off financially, I was happier what I was doing, not hassled, and definitely home more often, so I stayed put.

So mate, I’d reckon I’m on your list of drivers willing to work for a not too brilliant firm, for maybe not a crap wage, but certainly an inferior wage in comparison to what I was offered, and what I had previously been used to.
But like we said mate, mitigating circumstances, which I decided were enough just to carry on with it.

Yeah, I hear you mate.

The Sutton’s crew are simply fighting for what they want, and the broad point I was making was simply that I admire their pluck.
Your employers are not great mate, but you are wise enough to make the situation work for you :wink:

My Dad used to say " There is more than one way to skin a cat ". £30-£40 a week can very easily be ’ added ’ to a weekly wage, thus turning a very average hourly rate into a much better one, so it’s not all black & white anyway.

124

JIMBO47:
So the odd one or two that are left who will speak up, are written off and labelled as militant troublemakers (which fits in nice with their agenda btw) where as in reality all they are asking for, and expecting, is a bit of respect and fairness. …nothing more nothing less. …apart from not being routinely treated like dog crap on someone’s shoe. yup ROBROY that is what happens I spoke up about strange wage practices at the large hauler in the rural area I lived when I was 25yrs old, nobody else would say boo but they really bent me over (gave me 100pound for a weeks tramping early 80s) I was given the if you don’t like it KF off …I took it as far as I could and got a payout BUT was banned for life from hauling there trailers even on for other companies/on their property,even getting a lift back up the road from friends!. I tried 10yrs later working for a guy that hauled there trailers yup he was told I HAD TO GO! also the other big area company blackballed me as well no one likes a driver that wont bend over. spent the next 23yrs wae local company before leaving uk. would I do it again and stand up …HELL YEAH it caused me problems but at least I could look in the mirror. jimmy. sorry not suttons related.

Spot on mate. Dignity + strong spine. A fine recipe indeed :sunglasses:

Doesn’t really matter if you are labelled a pain in the arse anyway, you can always do well with the right attitude.
You wouldn’t want your own loved ones to put up with crap, so why would you expect somebody else’s to?

125

eagerbeaver:

JIMBO47:
So the odd one or two that are left who will speak up, are written off and labelled as militant troublemakers (which fits in nice with their agenda btw) where as in reality all they are asking for, and expecting, is a bit of respect and fairness. …nothing more nothing less. …apart from not being routinely treated like dog crap on someone’s shoe. yup ROBROY that is what happens I spoke up about strange wage practices at the large hauler in the rural area I lived when I was 25yrs old, nobody else would say boo but they really bent me over (gave me 100pound for a weeks tramping early 80s) I was given the if you don’t like it KF off …I took it as far as I could and got a payout BUT was banned for life from hauling there trailers even on for other companies/on their property,even getting a lift back up the road from friends!. I tried 10yrs later working for a guy that hauled there trailers yup he was told I HAD TO GO! also the other big area company blackballed me as well no one likes a driver that wont bend over. spent the next 23yrs wae local company before leaving uk. would I do it again and stand up …HELL YEAH it caused me problems but at least I could look in the mirror. jimmy. sorry not suttons related.

Spot on mate. Dignity + strong spine. A fine recipe indeed :sunglasses:

Doesn’t really matter if you are labelled a pain in the arse anyway, you can always do well with the right attitude.
You wouldn’t want your own loved ones to put up with crap, so why would you expect somebody else’s to?

Well said both of you

126

albion:
EB, T&E, I meant the wider picture, say general haulage and then say ADR work.

There’s more to be tackled than just the hourly rate. I’d like to see proper o/t rates in line with other industries and working hours brought down from a possible 15 hour day to something like 12 max. £10ph in a 9-5 job is £20k pa. Nothing to write home about is it? But there’s quite a few on here who seem to think it is. £12 ph only takes you to £25k. Again nothing special it’s only because of the stupid hours drivers work that a living wage goes in the bank on those rates. It’s a very antisocial job in many instances but the rates don’t reflect that these days. I’m looking to raise the bar personally to £15+ but I’ll have to move to do that. I don’t have any qualms about that. If other boxes were ticked I could settle for less.

127

I was trying to keep it simple by sticking with hourly pay T&E. I thought EB might come back with something more like £15.00.

I agree with the 12,hours though. Would you change the daily rest though. I hated hanging around for daily rest to be up if I was ready to go.

128

albion:
I was trying to keep it simple by sticking with hourly pay T&E. I thought EB might come back with something more like £15.00.

I agree with the 12,hours though. Would you change the daily rest though. I hated hanging around for daily rest to be up if I was ready to go.

I suspect that the majority of firms (certainly those with a large number of drivers) simply wouldn’t be able to pay £15 per hour Albion. For the responsibility and dangerous nature of the job alone, wages need to be upped.

Not to mention the dreadful lack of facilities and the fact that the majority of folk hate us. No wonder younger people have no interest whatsoever in being a truck driver.

I have 4 kids. If any of them become truck drivers I will be dissapointed.

129

albion:
I was trying to keep it simple by sticking with hourly pay T&E. I thought EB might come back with something more like £15.00.

I agree with the 12,hours though. Would you change the daily rest though. I hated hanging around for daily rest to be up if I was ready to go.

Are you talking about the 45 mins break? If so I know what you mean but I usually find having a 45 is just enough by the time I’ve been to the loo and sourced a cuppa, made a quick call or two I’m often chasing people off the phone so I can get on my way again! I think I’d leave it as is but would listen to another view on it. If talking about rest as opposed to break I know that will seem like a long break after a night out but if you move it one way you make one happy and one unhappy!

130

TiredAndEmotional:

albion:
I was trying to keep it simple by sticking with hourly pay T&E. I thought EB might come back with something more like £15.00.

I agree with the 12,hours though. Would you change the daily rest though. I hated hanging around for daily rest to be up if I was ready to go.

Are you talking about the 45 mins break? If so I know what you mean but I usually find having a 45 is just enough by the time I’ve been to the loo and sourced a cuppa, made a quick call or two I’m often chasing people off the phone so I can get on my way again! I think I’d leave it as is but would listen to another view on it. If talking about rest as opposed to break I know that will seem like a long break after a night out but if you move it one way you make one happy and one unhappy!

No I meant the 9-10 hours. I’d find myself wide awake with three hours to kill. I’m wondering if the day shortened to 12 hours, would the rest lengthen to 12 hours.

All theoretical, someone will be working on making. 16 hours legal!

131

According to Motor Transport ( 2017 table ) Suttons turnover was £96million and profits were £437,000 . A profit margin of less than 0.5 % looks wafer thin to me . For comparative purposes , Hoyer turned over £119 million and reported profits of £4.6 million . This is still only a margin of 3.7 % . It would be interesting to know why margins at Suttons were so low .

132

N.I Express:
According to Motor Transport ( 2017 table ) Suttons turnover was £96million and profits were £437,000 . A profit margin of less than 0.5 % looks wafer thin to me . For comparative purposes , Hoyer turned over £119 million and reported profits of £4.6 million . This is still only a margin of 3.7 % . It would be interesting to know why margins at Suttons were so low .

Suttons annual accounts are due to be posted 31st January. They reduced profit margins on paper when they diverted profits to buy out Imperial Tankers. Put into the business as Director loans to avoid paying tax. Before looking at the bottom lines, have a look at Director pay awards and bonuses

133

I would have thought that any funding for an acquisition would flow through the balance sheet and have little impact on the reported profit . There is an amortisation cost of £1.5 million charged to the profits relating to acquisitions . Even after adjusting for this cost the margin is still wafer thin ( circa 2 % ) . I would be surprised if Directors emoluments / salary made any significant impact on profits .

134

It won’t just be director’s vast payments, you can be sure there’s dozens of pointy shoes and assorted pushers of pens, all non productive staff, to be paid for by those actually doing the work.

135

N.I Express:
According to Motor Transport ( 2017 table ) Suttons turnover was £96million and profits were £437,000 . A profit margin of less than 0.5 % looks wafer thin to me . For comparative purposes , Hoyer turned over £119 million and reported profits of £4.6 million . This is still only a margin of 3.7 % . It would be interesting to know why margins at Suttons were so low .

They’ve been bloody reckless in paying some of their drivers more than £10 an hour I’ve heard!

136

Juddian:
It won’t just be director’s vast payments, you can be sure there’s dozens of pointy shoes and assorted pushers of pens, all non productive staff, to be paid for by those actually doing the work.

However all companies have to employ administration staff or the company would collapse . If the sales ledger was not managed correctly the company would fail to invoice work and collect money owed . The same applies to the purchase ledger for the payment of suppliers and payroll administration. I would think that the important issue is the number of administration staff employed and are the numbers reasonable compared to the turnover of the business. A company without management or admin staff would fail very quickly .

137

N.I Express:
According to Motor Transport ( 2017 table ) Suttons turnover was £96million and profits were £437,000 . A profit margin of less than 0.5 % looks wafer thin to me . For comparative purposes , Hoyer turned over £119 million and reported profits of £4.6 million . This is still only a margin of 3.7 % . It would be interesting to know why margins at Suttons were so low .

Many ways and means to divert money away from the tax man, they obviously have very good accountants. With a margin that small it gives them the edge over any requested extra future spend…

138

N.I Express:

Juddian:
It won’t just be director’s vast payments, you can be sure there’s dozens of pointy shoes and assorted pushers of pens, all non productive staff, to be paid for by those actually doing the work.

However all companies have to employ administration staff or the company would collapse . If the sales ledger was not managed correctly the company would fail to invoice work and collect money owed . The same applies to the purchase ledger for the payment of suppliers and payroll administration. I would think that the important issue is the number of administration staff employed and are the numbers reasonable compared to the turnover of the business. A company without management or admin staff would fail very quickly .

Yes and companies with more chiefs than indians don’t fare too well either.

139

N.I Express:
According to Motor Transport ( 2017 table ) Suttons turnover was £96million and profits were £437,000 . A profit margin of less than 0.5 % looks wafer thin to me . For comparative purposes , Hoyer turned over £119 million and reported profits of £4.6 million . This is still only a margin of 3.7 % . It would be interesting to know why margins at Suttons were so low .

I don’t know where drivers think a wage rise is going to come from at any haulage company! take hoyers £4.6 million profit split between all the staff, works out at £8.80p per week per staff member, any other company not in road haulage would probably throw the towel in…I think the big boys are looking for 5% + to make it worth while doing.

140

Juddian:

N.I Express:

Juddian:
It won’t just be director’s vast payments, you can be sure there’s dozens of pointy shoes and assorted pushers of pens, all non productive staff, to be paid for by those actually doing the work.

However all companies have to employ administration staff or the company would collapse . If the sales ledger was not managed correctly the company would fail to invoice work and collect money owed . The same applies to the purchase ledger for the payment of suppliers and payroll administration. I would think that the important issue is the number of administration staff employed and are the numbers reasonable compared to the turnover of the business. A company without management or admin staff would fail very quickly .

Yes and companies with more chiefs than indians don’t fare too well either.

Spot on .And exactly why a lot of local councils are struggling.Far to many chiefs .
.