Sutton’s tankers advertising for adr driver’s’ in willenhall at £10.22 per hour plus ot rate. not a very good deal for that type of work imho.
Merseycool, i loved your post, and i admire you for that…i have been a militant way before i joined the picket lines at Wapping all those years ago…sadly…when Maggie wanted to [zb] the union movement…the majority supported that ideal, instead of the whole country coming out against her ideas…btw…in am still a militant…but i have to stand my own corner these days as most companies or driver wouldnt entertain a union, well drivers…theres an invitation on page one for unite…so accept the invitation…then lets see who had the balls to join ■■
I fully support Suttons, and their drivers…the fuel industry is run by greedy [zb]s…the job was the best in the industry…till the greeds decided to let agencies run their depots…the wages are still good but overall half of what they used to be…this industry is ripe for change…you can see whats happening…everyone is looking at cutting costs…most are running on a shoe string…many are going to the wall…sadly a lot cannot run on low margins and rates…but their are the weak and the strong, and the strong seem to win because they have more vehicles…they make more profit via volume of vehicles…not per job rate…the only way to stop this madness, and increase the conditions and pay for this industry is to UNITE …then join the fight, picket…fight for your rights…just like Suttons are doing…but watch this space for the negative comments…those who will say But my pay and conditions are ok…after theyve added their nights out to their take home pay, then tell us all is good…or other such excuses… We are over worked…we get minimum rest…the wages are not ok, theyre absolute crap for the responsibility…we are drivers…nightwatchmen, security guards…we get robbed, face the gauntlet in Calais…Dunkirk…Zeebrugge…Caen, and all along the southern french coast…and get paid a pittance for doing so…let the fight begin…its your choice.
muckles:
albion:
muckles:
albion:
I do genuinely try to be a decent employer and unlike Suttons, there’s only me and 25 staff to please, not a board and several hundred jobs.Suppose my customer came along and said I’m not paying you £1.50 a mile, I’m paying you ;£1.30. Now I’m a stubborn old bat so I’d tell them our worth and if they didn’t like it, they can Foxtrot Oscar (I have said no on contractual terms before and been prepared to walk). And if the customer says no, then we all head off into the sunset. From the drivers perspective I’m not sure what that achieves…
Now Suttons have far more to lose and if they’ve been told to take it or leave it, they really can’t decide to give in, their only option is to cut costs. The council aren’t going to cut business rates, fuel suppliers will have the price down to the bone, truck sales and maintenance, maybe shave a few grand off that over 4-5 years. The only cost they can try to cut is wages.
There really isn’t much difference. Customer tells suttons they need to work for less. Drivers customer (Suttons) tells the drivers they need to work for less. Same principle, someone further up the chain hits you with a big stick.
But this is the problem companies know they can cut costs by reducing pay and conditions, so contracts are negotiated with that knowledge, (although I wonder if the Swedish based contractors of Nynas would find that so easy?)
This doesn’t help workers, it doesn’t help people like you who want to treat their staff properly, it doesn’t really help most small business as they now making the same or less percentage profit on a smaller turnover, but it does benefit the owners (shareholders) of large multi-national corporations who drive these deals.
So unless we can get to a point where companies know they can’t make saving purely on reducing pay and conditions, we will continue with a race to the bottom and an increasing gap between the wealthiest top few percent and the average person.I agree 100%, I was making the point that Suttons have as much choice as drivers. It would be nice if hauliers would stick together and not accept low rates. What the answer is, I have no idea.
I understand your point, you and other hauliers I know walk out of jobs before taking crap work, but there is always somebody willing to take it and run at bugger all profit cutting costs in everyway possible.
Although I’ve seen people try and do this with specialist work and fall flat on their face.But the point is, as workers we have to draw the line somewhere and make a stand and a 32% paycut would definitely focus my mind on making a stand.
And if Sutton’s drivers don’t make a stand which tanker firm is next?
To those people who say it’s futile to try, well it has been made as difficult as possible to make a stand and there are risks, but not doing anything is completely futile, no chance of victory and still risky.
Well said Avatar, and as the late Bob Crow said, “If you spit alone, it achieves nothing, but if we all spit together, we can drown the b**tards”
Bottom line is an increase in driver wages will only come from the bottom. No employer is going to offer more out of the kindness of their hearts. It can only be driven from the drivers.
Sadly now agencies are so big in the game they will find someone to get bums on seats.
I still say drivers need not do anything too extreme to make a point. Start by advertising a date and time that all drivers are going to make their point by stopping for 3 minutes ( not on motorways or clearways obviously, if people made sure they came off of these in prep) imagine the picture if a high percentage did it. The pictures alone would be very powerful!
Then perhaps the papers would listen to the drivers plight.
Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
The day that any HGV driver does absolutely anything in support of his own workmates or drivers in general,I will bare my btm on the town hall steps in Wakefield.
Gidders:
The day that any HGV driver does absolutely anything in support of his own workmates or drivers in general,I will bare my btm on the town hall steps in Wakefield.
Off to the shower then, have a good scrub round the ring and wobblies 
.
Lots of us on the transporters in the union agreed to support a whole load of drivers being made redundant when one of the big carriers shut up shop some years ago, that voted on agreement helped ‘persuade’ the very big carrier involved into taking those on as their own, on the proper contracts too, none of this crap contracts worth half or two thirds of original.
I won’t name the two companies because it might cause some embarrassment, but i assure you this is kosher.
Lots of things like this went on.
We didn’t get anything out of it as such, it was simply a call for support should it be needed from other union members in the same field, job done.
There are lots of cases where strong negotiation and being prepared in necessary to take industrial action, has benefitted drivers, they never get reported cos things like that arn’t in the govt or the govts owners interests to publicise in case the plebs get ideas above their station, and they always happen where there is a well supported union.
I shall repeat once again what i have said many times.
I have worked on crappy jobs, and have worked on some of the best paying lorry jobs in the country, and still doing nicely where i am ta.
Without a doubt the jobs with the best T’s and C’s have been unionised, end of.
By the way, we put a hell of a lot of effort into doing our jobs well, we get well paid and well looked after, and we aint stupid by any means, if we look after the customer (who after all employs all of us) then the company stay ahead of the field and we’re all more secure as a result.
The union doesn’t encourage people to take the ■■■■ or not do a good days work for your good days pay.
I don’t expect, like some others, to trouser terms that were hard won by others without doing my share to make it last, ie paying my union dues and taking a full part in being a union member, going to meetings, taking part in discussions and votes and helping constructively, and being prepared to stand up and be counted if necessary.
Fair play to the Sutton’s lads for making a stand.
They have nothing to lose because if a 30% loss is on the cards then the job will be no better than any other bum on seat agency based crap job going.
Tanks is still a skilled job, some of these new breed managers think they can change jobs like that into a one size fits all arse on seat rdc type operation, they want it so they can get any identical licence holder that they can grab off the street, cheapest they can get, plonk them on the seat, give them a pre programmed sat nav and send them off to do the job.
Best of luck with that on tanks or any other specialised job, the results always speak for themselves.
the maoster:
Gardner6LYT:
preferring to employ professional management to run the operation.^^^^ a collection of words that just about sums up all that is wrong with industry today! The mere thought that there actually is a market for a collection of spivs and nonentities who actually call themselves "professional management " fills me with despair. If any of them actually could manage then why aren’t they running their own highly successful enterprises?
You’re making the mistake of believing managers are running a business for the long term success, a business owner might run it like that, but the corporate manager is all about short term profits for the shareholders.
So you sell off assets and rent them back, that looks good on the balance sheets. You get rid of any workers who aren’t part of the core business, like cleaning staff or workshop staff, then you hire a company to come and do exactly the same job with a lower level of service and probably more expensive, but you’ve reduced the payroll and that looks good.
You reduce staffing levels to braking point, even though this effects staff morale, productivity and customer satisfactions, those things can’t be measured on a spreadsheet, so therefore aren’t important. Then you take your nice healthy bonus and share options and get headhunted to do exactly the same to another company.
Juddian,I agree with everything you say but sadly in practice it rarely materialises.When i was young and keen,I was a shop steward in the naive belief that I could help out my depot in some small way but it turned out that my workmates wanted me to do their whinging on their behalf so that the boss would see my face instead of theirs.I n the case of Suttons drivers in their circumstances I would be the first on the barricades.Unfortunately,as you know as well as i do,wages and conditions are being eroded as we speak.
muckles:
You’re making the mistake of believing managers are running a business for the long term success, a business owner might run it like that, but the corporate manager is all about short term profits for the shareholders.
So you sell off assets and rent them back, that looks good on the balance sheets. You get rid of any workers who aren’t part of the core business, like cleaning staff or workshop staff, then you hire a company to come and do exactly the same job with a lower level of service and probably more expensive, but you’ve reduced the payroll and that looks good.
You reduce staffing levels to braking point, even though this effects staff morale, productivity and customer satisfactions, those things can’t be measured on a spreadsheet, so therefore aren’t important. Then you take your nice healthy bonus and share options and get headhunted to do exactly the same to another company.
^^^that.
The bean counters have got into tankers and it no longer attracts a premium.
My ex boss runs mostly tankers with a couple of curtainsiders. He gets less for a run from Eastham to Thurrock with a tanker than I give him for shifting some empty cases from Bolton to Bedford. His base is broadly mid way between the two. No speciast kit for the vehicle, no specialist trainng for the driver in moving wooden boxes.
muckles:
You’re making the mistake of believing managers are running a business for the long term success, a business owner might run it like that, but the corporate manager is all about short term profits for the shareholders.
So you sell off assets and rent them back, that looks good on the balance sheets. You get rid of any workers who aren’t part of the core business, like cleaning staff or workshop staff, then you hire a company to come and do exactly the same job with a lower level of service and probably more expensive, but you’ve reduced the payroll and that looks good.
You reduce staffing levels to braking point, even though this effects staff morale, productivity and customer satisfactions, those things can’t be measured on a spreadsheet, so therefore aren’t important. Then you take your nice healthy bonus and share options and get headhunted to do exactly the same to another company.
That couldn’t be anymore correct!
It is all very well going on strike to preserve terms and conditions , however it is ultimately the consumer who eventually pays for pay which may be above the going rate . In theory it is impossible to be underpaid as if this was the case , you would simply leave your current position and take on a postion with a new employer who will value your years of experience , . Another option is to set up on your own ( though I guess those who go on strike prefer to absolve themselves from the reality of running a businness on commercialy acceptable terms ) .
With regard to the large blue chip logistic operators this is probably what a large number of customers want these days . The process of moving goods from A to B adds nothing to the value of a businness and as such companies will want this service undertaken in the most cost effective manner possible . The blue chip logistic operators must be getting most things right , otherwise they would not survive .
Whilst I can understand drivers felling annoyed at terms and conditions being amended , maybe they should be gratefull that the existing terms lasted as long as they did . It is likely that the commercial reality of life dictates that paying a premium of 30 % compared to current markt rates is no longer justifiable or sustainable .
N.I Express:
It is all very well going on strike to preserve terms and conditions , however it is ultimately the consumer who eventually pays for pay which may be above the going rate . In theory it is impossible to be underpaid as if this was the case , you would simply leave your current position and take on a postion with a new employer who will value your years of experience , . Another option is to set up on your own ( though I guess those who go on strike prefer to absolve themselves from the reality of running a businness on commercialy acceptable terms ) .With regard to the large blue chip logistic operators this is probably what a large number of customers want these days . The process of moving goods from A to B adds nothing to the value of a businness and as such companies will want this service undertaken in the most cost effective manner possible . The blue chip logistic operators must be getting most things right , otherwise they would not survive .
Whilst I can understand drivers felling annoyed at terms and conditions being amended , maybe they should be gratefull that the existing terms lasted as long as they did . It is likely that the commercial reality of life dictates that paying a premium of 30 % compared to current markt rates is no longer justifiable or sustainable .
So there we have it fellow drivers,.we should all be grateful we are in work, and to show said gratitude, just say nothing if our firms decide on a whim to cut our pay and reduce the quality of our terms and conditions, to the point of struggling to keep our families…because after all it is only fair that us drivers should take on our backs any extra costs incurred to consumers.
As said, everybody wants their goods ran from A to B at the cheapest possible rate, so who are we to expect any pay raises, let’s just leave any large salaries and dividends to the men in suits, these blue chip companies are awash with those guys, and after all they deserve it more than we do.
So know your place, you are at the bottom of the food chain, and brace yourselves for the return of Victorian worker’s terms and conditions. 
Yeh right… 
The reality of Victorian terms and conditions are not returning, they are already here in the haulage industry. I know a couple of Suttons drivers who earn in excess of 35 to 40K. There will be little sympathy or support from other drivers who are more likely to be earning far less than these dis-crumpled drivers. Strike action is the only reasonable action that they have, otherwise this will be happening regardless to what any union thinks they can do. Other drivers will be queuing at Sutton’s gates for these jobs and the majority will be experienced drivers who will be able to raise their current wages even from the 30% cut as it stands. Strike action would be needed throughout all of the other drivers to make a difference and we all know that isn’t going to happen. Those on a good thing now will not be interested, the EE drivers will not be interested and the few drivers that are in a union will not be voting to stand in solidarity for those who are earning more than they are earning. That leaves agency drivers and non union drivers left, so how is this strike ever going to make any difference. I hope those that stand up will get somewhere with this but I seriously doubt it. I would stand with them but I know a hundred more who wouldn’t.
Aren’t Sutton’s owned by Hargreaves?
robroy:
N.I Express:
It is all very well going on strike to preserve terms and conditions , however it is ultimately the consumer who eventually pays for pay which may be above the going rate . In theory it is impossible to be underpaid as if this was the case , you would simply leave your current position and take on a postion with a new employer who will value your years of experience , . Another option is to set up on your own ( though I guess those who go on strike prefer to absolve themselves from the reality of running a businness on commercialy acceptable terms ) .With regard to the large blue chip logistic operators this is probably what a large number of customers want these days . The process of moving goods from A to B adds nothing to the value of a businness and as such companies will want this service undertaken in the most cost effective manner possible . The blue chip logistic operators must be getting most things right , otherwise they would not survive .
Whilst I can understand drivers felling annoyed at terms and conditions being amended , maybe they should be gratefull that the existing terms lasted as long as they did . It is likely that the commercial reality of life dictates that paying a premium of 30 % compared to current markt rates is no longer justifiable or sustainable .
So there we have it fellow drivers,.we should all be grateful we are in work, and to show said gratitude, just say nothing if our firms decide on a whim to cut our pay and reduce the quality of our terms and conditions, to the point of struggling to keep our families…because after all it is only fair that us drivers should take on our backs any extra costs incurred to consumers.
As said, everybody wants their goods ran from A to B at the cheapest possible rate, so who are we to expect any pay raises, let’s just leave any large salaries and dividends to the men in suits, these blue chip companies are awash with those guys, and after all they deserve it more than we do.So know your place, you are at the bottom of the food chain, and brace yourselves for the return of Victorian worker’s terms and conditions.
To be fair you did say that you can find a happy medium and compromise rather than go back to the militant days of the 1970’s.So which is it going to be. 
DonutUK:
Aren’t Sutton’s owned by Hargreaves?
No. Hargreaves bought Imperial but had the sense to leave it alone and not meddle as it was (by haulage terms) a massively profitable company. Hargreaves then sold Imperial to Suttons who in turn couldn’t resist meddling with it and therefore reduced it to a large financial turnover &very little profit company.
Hargreaves are now providing financial backing to Halcyon Tankers but are wisely keeping out of the day to day running of it.
UKtramp:
Other drivers will be queuing at Sutton’s gates for these jobs and the majority will be experienced drivers who will be able to raise their current wages even from the 30% cut as it stands.That leaves agency drivers and non union drivers left, so how is this strike ever going to make any difference. .
Are there that many ADR/Tanker trained drivers around? Suttons are a big co afaik with many drivers…and how long does it take to qualify by the time you get all your different ADR tickets.
I’ve had ADR before but it expired about 15 yrs ago.
I wouldn’t have a clue how to start to load and discharge a tanker trailer, I would reckon the majority of drivers are the same, so it maybe wouldn’t be such an easy short term fix as you think.
Specialised driving jobs should carry specialised rates…as they always have on the whole
sweepster:
toonsy:
TiredAndEmotional:
toonsy:
I hope they win too.But they won’t. The contract will just get taken off them and end up elsewhere - Stobarts or something just so nobody else can pick it up. Then they’ll be out of a job anyways unfortunately.
Yes but the current offer is sooooo good the men have backed a strike 100%! If it’s that bad and you lose it what’s the hardship?
Dunno. Depends on personal circumstances of each individual I guess - ie is less money (but still sone money) better than not having any income at all while a new job is sourced.
I went on strike with Royal Mail. Wish I never bothered. Lost a weeks wages and in the end people settled for the deal the were offered originally so no better off.
Fair play for making a stand but certainly these days I couldnt afford to full on strike with a mortgage/kids etc
Am I reading this right?
A Union lad/lady thinking the way you do?
The last strike that we went back no better off was way back in the late 80’s.
The negotiations are coming to a close and the wording of the agreement will be happening soon.
Come this April we will be on over £30,000 a year, for a 36 hour 15 mins week (meal relief not included)
Including o/t in duties most drivers are earning well above £40,000 a year.
If you can’t live off that, you are living well above your means.
Lol this was years ago… maybe 2007ish when I worked at Royal Mail and back then I was a humble beat postie. Obviously I don’t work at RM nowadays but the deal we got on the shop floor was strikingly similar to what was worthy of striking for. Though in fairness it wasn’t so much about wage as I recall it was more to do with the modernisation project and how that was to be implemnted. Think the final straw was getting rid of
night sorting or something which happened shortly after we went back to work after being told more talks would be held about it.
robroy:
UKtramp:
Other drivers will be queuing at Sutton’s gates for these jobs and the majority will be experienced drivers who will be able to raise their current wages even from the 30% cut as it stands.That leaves agency drivers and non union drivers left, so how is this strike ever going to make any difference. .
Are there that many ADR/Tanker trained drivers around? Suttons are a big co afaik with many drivers…and how long does it take to qualify by the time you get all your different ADR tickets.
I’ve had ADR before but it expired about 15 yrs ago.
I wouldn’t have a clue how to start to load and discharge a tanker trailer, I would reckon the majority of drivers are the same, so it maybe wouldn’t be such an easy short term fix as you think.Specialised driving jobs should carry specialised rates…as they always have on the whole
It still remains every man for himself, see how many will be supporting this depot in their plight. The management obviously think they can replace these drivers easily and I am sure that they they can and will, but like everyone else who considers themselves as specialised, these cut backs affects them as much as a driver who works in a non specialised area. The Humber pilots who worked for years on over 70K per anum were knocked down to between 30 and 40k when ABP took control of the pilots. These are more specialised than an ADR driver, these people are master mariners but had no option but to accept the new terms and conditions. Every person is expendable and always will be. How much pressure can the unions put on Sutton’s is arguable, how long will drivers be able to hold out not working and losing wages will be a lot less. I cannot see this as more than a short term problem for Sutton’s.
N.I Express:
It is all very well going on strike to preserve terms and conditions , however it is ultimately the consumer who eventually pays for pay which may be above the going rate . In theory it is impossible to be underpaid as if this was the case , you would simply leave your current position and take on a postion with a new employer who will value your years of experience , . Another option is to set up on your own ( though I guess those who go on strike prefer to absolve themselves from the reality of running a businness on commercialy acceptable terms ) .With regard to the large blue chip logistic operators this is probably what a large number of customers want these days . The process of moving goods from A to B adds nothing to the value of a businness and as such companies will want this service undertaken in the most cost effective manner possible . The blue chip logistic operators must be getting most things right , otherwise they would not survive .
Whilst I can understand drivers felling annoyed at terms and conditions being amended , maybe they should be gratefull that the existing terms lasted as long as they did . It is likely that the commercial reality of life dictates that paying a premium of 30 % compared to current markt rates is no longer justifiable or sustainable .
Well, thanks for the lesson in economics fella. It was really interesting. Perhaps for your next trick you can tell us that the grass is green and the sky is blue?
As long as the haulage industry has people with opinions like yours and adam277’s in it, it is consigned to a never-ending race to the bottom, with drivers bearing the brunt of constant cost-cutting. And not only should they accept it, they should welcome it!