Need your experiences, thoughts or advice? Bit long winded but here goes.
I work for a company doing fridge artic work and have worked for them for a few years. I went to them because I get home everyday as I have a young family so basically I work say 6 to 6 from the local depot and have nights in my own bed and weekends off.
I get paid £95 in my hand so £475 quid a week. My issue with them is they pay roughly £440 per week gross then make roughly £105 (3 x night out money, 2 x 10 hour meal and 5 x £2 meal allowance) per week up in subsistence payments which works out at £475.
Problem being is when I take holidays they don’t pay the subsistence payment so I take home £350.
Now they are looking to put me on furlough for 4 weeks and they are going to pay me 80% of £350 so I’m going to get £280 a week, a drop of nearly £200 a week and I still have all the same bills!
I have always argued the point with them that I don’t do nights out and bring a packed lunch so never submit meal receipts so how can they do this??
When I started they just said you get £95 a day no mention of these payments etc etc.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated as I’m thinking of taking it further, to legal action.
Cheers.
I’d suggest caution before doing anything official. If the taxman gets to hear that you’ve been paid (tax-free) allowances to which you are not entitled, he could come after you for the tax you haven’t paid on that income.
They’re not doing it legally, they avoid employers NI and pay less holiday pay but the upside for you is you pay £33 a week less tax and NI than you would have done had they not done this so you have to kind of balance it out as to whether it’s worth pursuing. HMRC can come after you for up to 6 years.
I’d have said if you’ve been gaining by £33 a week, or over £1700 a year, in tax and NI you should have paid but haven’t that I’d personally ■■■■ it up because not only are you still quids in but if you take it to HMRC they’re going to want around £5k off you in underpaid tax and NI. It’s hard to say you weren’t party to it when you knew you didn’t take nights out or pay for meals away from home but had those itemised on your payslip every week.
So by all means take it to legal action but be aware this is likely to result in:
You taking home over £1700 a year less.
HMRC coming knocking on your door for somewhere between £4000-£5000
If you’ve been claiming income based benefits such as tax credits, them coming knocking on your door for overpayments.
As others have said, this is dodgy, don’t complain to anyone outside the company unless you want to take them down, but you may well be in the firing line as well albeit unintentionally.
Jobs are slim pickings at the moment so I’d stay where you are for the time being or prevail on their kind hearts with your financial situation to come up with a better offer.
Hopefully lockdown will lift in the next couple of weeks and things will get back to some kind of normal.
Thanks for the replies.
I have always questioned the firm about it from I got my first pay slip and as they run 100 lorries and they kept telling me it’s been cleared by HMRC and what we are doing is right.
I haven’t taken action yet as I’m there almost 2 1/2 years now and the labour relations agency said they could sack within the first two years for no reason so I had to wait over 2 years after that period I can take them for unfair dismissal if they sack me.
Surely the firm would be liable for my tax if they are the ones breaking the law?
I have never signed a contract but they have given me one a couple of weeks ago which I haven’t signed that states a rate of £95 a day and no mention of the other crap.
I or my wife doesn’t claim benefits, I just want everything to be done legally.
Ps this is a Northern Irish firm and £100 a day is the going rate here.
Regular-Joe:
Thanks for the replies.
I have always questioned the firm about it from I got my first pay slip and as they run 100 lorries and they kept telling me it’s been cleared by HMRC and what we are doing is right.
I haven’t taken action yet as I’m there almost 2 1/2 years now and the labour relations agency said they could sack within the first two years for no reason so I had to wait over 2 years after that period I can take them for unfair dismissal if they sack me.
Surely the firm would be liable for my tax if they are the ones breaking the law?
I have never signed a contract but they have given me one a couple of weeks ago which I haven’t signed that states a rate of £95 a day and no mention of the other crap.
I or my wife doesn’t claim benefits, I just want everything to be done legally.
Ps this is a Northern Irish firm and £100 a day is the going rate here.
Even when being paid on a PAYE basis, paying the correct Income Tax is still your responsibility. If the excrement hits the rotational ventilation device the company would be liable for the Employer NI they have avoided paying, but you would carry the can for the unpaid Tax and Employee NI contributions.
I too would be inclined to keep schtum about this.
When things get back to normal i’d suggest finding another job, because sooner or later someone is going to twig subistence is being paid when the vehicle isn’t away, think i’d rather be long forgotten and hope HMRC don’t look too far back to previous employees when the smelly stuff hits the fan.
The odd day cash in the hand is one thing but there is a long established pattern of deliberate deception here.
Conor:
They’re not doing it legally, they avoid employers NI and pay less holiday pay but the upside for you is you pay £33 a week less tax and NI than you would have done had they not done this so you have to kind of balance it out as to whether it’s worth pursuing. HMRC can come after you for up to 6 years.
I’d have said if you’ve been gaining by £33 a week, or over £1700 a year, in tax and NI you should have paid but haven’t that I’d personally ■■■■ it up because not only are you still quids in but if you take it to HMRC they’re going to want around £5k off you in underpaid tax and NI. It’s hard to say you weren’t party to it when you knew you didn’t take nights out or pay for meals away from home but had those itemised on your payslip every week.
So by all means take it to legal action but be aware this is likely to result in:
You taking home over £1700 a year less.
HMRC coming knocking on your door for somewhere between £4000-£5000
If you’ve been claiming income based benefits such as tax credits, them coming knocking on your door for overpayments.
Definitely agree with this, what he says is correct. You could land yourself with a tax bill in this situation. Not your fault but unfortunately HMRC will penalise you. Your best bet is after furlough, get another job and dump this outfit.
Regular-Joe:
Thanks for the replies.
I have always questioned the firm about it from I got my first pay slip and as they run 100 lorries and they kept telling me it’s been cleared by HMRC and what we are doing is right.
I haven’t taken action yet as I’m there almost 2 1/2 years now and the labour relations agency said they could sack within the first two years for no reason so I had to wait over 2 years after that period I can take them for unfair dismissal if they sack me.
Surely the firm would be liable for my tax if they are the ones breaking the law?
I have never signed a contract but they have given me one a couple of weeks ago which I haven’t signed that states a rate of £95 a day and no mention of the other crap.
I or my wife doesn’t claim benefits, I just want everything to be done legally.
Ps this is a Northern Irish firm and £100 a day is the going rate here.
If you’re happy and can live on it for working them hours then that’s ok you do what you have to
Regular-Joe:
Thanks for the replies.
I have always questioned the firm about it from I got my first pay slip and as they run 100 lorries and they kept telling me it’s been cleared by HMRC and what we are doing is right.
The lunch allowance and meal allowance they may be correct that they have an agreement with HMRC so they don’t have to supply receipts. Stobarts most certainly have a similar agreement with HMRC and if you read up on subsistence allowance in the mountains of stuff there is at HMRC meal and lunch allowances are most certainly allowable for people who travel as part of their job and either start at silly o’clock or work long days, although you’re usually expected to prove money spent.
Roymondo:
I’d suggest caution before doing anything official. If the taxman gets to hear that you’ve been paid (tax-free) allowances to which you are not entitled, he could come after you for the tax you haven’t paid on that income.
What does your contract say about remuneration?
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Thanks so far for all the advice folks.
Just checked the contract (which I have not signed yet) and it says “Your remuneration is based on a net daily rate of £95.00 per day” it then goes on to say that overnights of £25 are paid extra.
Surely this shows they are flouting the law by using these subsistence payments to get my pay to £95 a day?
Roymondo:
I’d suggest caution before doing anything official. If the taxman gets to hear that you’ve been paid (tax-free) allowances to which you are not entitled, he could come after you for the tax you haven’t paid on that income.
What does your contract say about remuneration?
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Thanks so far for all the advice folks.
Just checked the contract (which I have not signed yet) and it says “Your remuneration is based on a net daily rate of £95.00 per day” it then goes on to say that overnights of £25 are paid extra.
Surely this shows they are flouting the law by using these subsistence payments to get my pay to £95 a day?
And now it gets interesting if still not a wind up, should i get the popcorn out
Roymondo:
I’d suggest caution before doing anything official. If the taxman gets to hear that you’ve been paid (tax-free) allowances to which you are not entitled, he could come after you for the tax you haven’t paid on that income.
What does your contract say about remuneration?
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Thanks so far for all the advice folks.
Just checked the contract (which I have not signed yet) and it says “Your remuneration is based on a net daily rate of £95.00 per day” it then goes on to say that overnights of £25 are paid extra.
Surely this shows they are flouting the law by using these subsistence payments to get my pay to £95 a day?
And now it gets interesting if still not a wind up, should i get the popcorn out
Roymondo:
I’d suggest caution before doing anything official. If the taxman gets to hear that you’ve been paid (tax-free) allowances to which you are not entitled, he could come after you for the tax you haven’t paid on that income.
What does your contract say about remuneration?
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Thanks so far for all the advice folks.
Just checked the contract (which I have not signed yet) and it says “Your remuneration is based on a net daily rate of £95.00 per day” it then goes on to say that overnights of £25 are paid extra.
Surely this shows they are flouting the law by using these subsistence payments to get my pay to £95 a day?
And now it gets interesting if still not a wind up, should i get the popcorn out
I wish it was a wind up, Bigtruck
It don’t add up, the numbers and the hours and the day rate and the subsistence and your take home
95 is below minimum wage. You need to kick a fuss.I remember one Cardiff firm offering 120 a day. When i queried it the guy was so rude i just put the phone down.
Let’s change the scenario what i base a living wage on is taking home on a hourly rate that is more than the minimum wage rate a hour, it’s that simple (clear it above it) if that includes your subsistence then that’s ok, if what you said in your post is true then the reason you are down is your employer is not toping up your wages to make it up to near to what you normally get so he’s not worth working for a cheap scate, in other words a scumbag
How do you work for someone like that as you say for 2 or 3 years
WheelsofCardiff:
95 is below minimum wage. You need to kick a fuss.I remember one Cardiff firm offering 120 a day. When i queried it the guy was so rude i just put the phone down.
Minimum wages is £8.72 gross, you would have to work almost 14 hours to get £95 in your hand so technically if I was getting hourly and not adding subsistence that’s what I would have to do.
Bigtruck I’m not sure what you mean by it doesn’t add up, it’s 440 minus tax and ni add 105 subsistence that give a wage of £475 a week. I never ask to be paid this way but that’s how this firm does it and quite a few others over here from what I hear.
I have only been a truck driver about six years as I was in a trade before but the whole haulage thing seems to be corrupt.
