A driver returns to work after his weekly rest. He is stopped by VOSA who say that the truck was moved without a card in during the weekend so as there was insufficient rest he gets fined and parked up for 9 hours. The truck had been moved in the yard to be washed by someone else. Is this scenario likely and how would you react?
viking7000:
A driver returns to work after his weekly rest. He is stopped by VOSA who say that the truck was moved without a card in during the weekend so as there was insufficient rest he gets fined and parked up for 9 hours. The truck had been moved in the yard to be washed by someone else. Is this scenario likely and how would you react?
nope
prove it .
end
Not the concern of the driver
The legal requirement on the driver is to record all that they do when they have use of the vehicle
Movements recorded in the yard etc are for the vehicle operator to explain should the need arise = very unlikely as its a common thing
Very difficult for VOSA to prove without making contact with your depot and seeing your time sheets /clock card
This supposedly happened to an Irish driver stopped in Holyhead last week. He was told that he was the last driver to use it before the weekend and the first driver after the weekend. He said what you guys said but they still did him. Now I don’t know how true it is but it was an interesting point in case it happened to me. You can’t really argue with Visa can you? unless want more grief.
viking7000:
This supposedly happened to an Irish driver stopped in Holyhead last week. He was told that he was the last driver to use it before the weekend and the first driver after the weekend. He said what you guys said but they still did him. Now I don’t know how true it is but it was an interesting point in case it happened to me. You can’t really argue with Visa can you? unless want more grief.
That would be only questionable if he had been weekended away from home.
If not, and parked at op/center, he has nothing to worry about. As Rog said it is down to the operator to explain it, not the driver.
Reckon that Paddy is b/s ing you saying he was nicked, if he aint and it is true, (not) I reckon a lot of drivers (including me) would be in bother.
Don’t know about Visa 
, but you can argue with VOSA, to hell with the grief if you think/know that you are right 
Just clear the driving without card screen, stick your card in
and do a manual entry for your end duty,weekend break and
start duty.Cheers
robroy:
[That would be only questionable if he had been weekended away from home.
:
not really I know drivers that while away drop it in for service etc while spending the weekend with friends or a B&B
Just keep a diary. Agreed if abroad they want an Attestation of Activities form but certainly in the UK if you have a diary and VOSA can see you aren’t trying to have them over and talk to them in a reasonable manner I can’t imagine there would be a problem.
With VOSA I think if you are open and honest there isn’t usually a problem. Only my opinion though!
I know its VOSA not visa. Fat fingers and small keypads don’t mix 
. I did get pulled by MasterCard once tho.
nick2008:
robroy:
[That would be only questionable if he had been weekended away from home.
:not really I know drivers that while away drop it in for service etc while spending the weekend with friends or a B&B
That’s exactly what I meant, the driver would be answerable instead of (or as well as) the operator in that type of situation, as he was not parked in the o/c therefore potentially responsible for any movement while off duty.
viking7000:
This supposedly happened to an Irish driver stopped in Holyhead last week. He was told that he was the last driver to use it before the weekend and the first driver after the weekend. He said what you guys said but they still did him. Now I don’t know how true it is but it was an interesting point in case it happened to me. You can’t really argue with Visa can you? unless want more grief.
It’s very easy to argue with VOSA. Simply refuse to accept what they say, and request a court hearing. The fact that the truck was moved wouldn’t be enough to secure a conviction, they would need to gather proof that you had moved it.
VOSA are no more.They are called DVSA.
robroy:
nick2008:
robroy:
[That would be only questionable if he had been weekended away from home.
:not really I know drivers that while away drop it in for service etc while spending the weekend with friends or a B&B
That’s exactly what I meant, the driver would be answerable instead of (or as well as) the operator in that type of situation, as he was not parked in the o/c therefore potentially responsible for any movement while off duty.
How do you figure that? The driver isn’t responsible for the vehicle whilst off duty, potentially or otherwise, unless he’s taking a rest period in it. If he did have responsibility for the vehicle (whilst it was being serviced, for example) it would have to be recorded as work or POA.
viking7000:
A driver returns to work after his weekly rest. He is stopped by VOSA who say that the truck was moved without a card in during the weekend so as there was insufficient rest he gets fined and parked up for 9 hours. The truck had been moved in the yard to be washed by someone else. Is this scenario likely and how would you react?
It’s not going to happen because it’s not the drivers responsibility what happens to the vehicle when he’s on his weekly rest period, if DVSA had a problem with the vehicle being moved without a card they would need to take it up with the company not the driver.
If the driver was week-ending away from home/base when the vehicle was moved he could face some questions, but as long as he could give a satisfactory explanation that could be verified I don’t see why there would be a problem.
But why would they park him up for 9 hours 
, surely if he’d had insufficient weekly rest he be parked up for 24/45 hours not 9.
I’ve worked at companies where vehicles are frequently moved without a card being used and as far as I’m aware it’s never been a problem.
sayersy:
robroy:
nick2008:
robroy:
[That would be only questionable if he had been weekended away from home.
:not really I know drivers that while away drop it in for service etc while spending the weekend with friends or a B&B
That’s exactly what I meant, the driver would be answerable instead of (or as well as) the operator in that type of situation, as he was not parked in the o/c therefore potentially responsible for any movement while off duty.
How do you figure that? The driver isn’t responsible for the vehicle whilst off duty, potentially or otherwise, unless he’s taking a rest period in it. If he did have responsibility for the vehicle (whilst it was being serviced, for example) it would have to be recorded as work or POA.
OK, if I leave the motor in the depot for the weekend if it is moved to go for service there is a solid defence for me saying I was at home nothing to do with me that the vehicle was moved.
If I am weekended abroad or other end of country or anywhere you can think of and as the guy says I spent it in said town in B&B or with friends, and I leave motor for service prior to rest period commencing, it would not be as solid as a defence as the first scenario if VOSA was suspicious that I was lying, as technically (maybe not legally) I am responsible for the motor from the operator’s point of view, until I do drop it off. That is how I rightly or wrongly figure it.
That’s a good point about the 9 hour break. Its not possible to judge without all of the facts and you know how these stories go. For all we know he left his card in and someone moved it.
Still, an interesting one judging by the differing opinions.
I once left my card in while I was at home on rest, left on break as well then a few hours later a shunter moved the truck to load it, didn’t realise my card was still in, loaded it so card would still read other works then after a few hours moved it back. then after a few hours the driver who was taking that truck out came in and found my card in it. took it out and handed it in to transport office, a few hours later (11 hours after I had clocked out and gone home) I come in to work. TM asked me if I had my things for work with a smile on his face, I said yes then asked why, he said he had my card lol. anyway all I did was put the card into the truck I was using that day and did a printout of the day before and wrote on the back what had happened. then did the same in my diary, the TM also noted it down. I have never been pulled but im sure vosa or dvsa will understand and wouldn’t give me a fine or infringement. where human and these things happen, as long as its not a repeat offence it should be ok, I hope
viking7000:
That’s a good point about the 9 hour break. Its not possible to judge without all of the facts and you know how these stories go. For all we know he left his card in and someone moved it.
Still, an interesting one judging by the differing opinions.
If the driver left his card in the tachograph and the vehicle was moved it would of course be an entirely different situation, in those circumstances I can imagine him being parked up if he refused to play nicely with the DVSA bod, though I still don’t understand why it would be for 9 hours.
In the opening post you talked of a scenario where the vehicle was moved without a card which I can’t see being a problem for the driver.
To be honest i suspect the Irish bloke in question was probably just spreading nonsense stories about the DVSA 
Seems you need to be careful with these digi cards. I got talking to a driver where I work through agency, he’s with the same one. He told me he’d been there since last year & they had offered him a job full time last February. He went on holiday & when he came back all had changed, the TM refused to take him on, or even have him back through agency alleging he had been working elsewhere over the weekend, thereby driving illegally. He took his card to the local dvsa location, sandy lane Newcastle, & asked them to see if there was a problem. Seems that when he started on Mondays he would do a manual entry to update his finish time Friday & start time Monday. Problem was he was doing it wrong & putting in other work from fri to mon looking like he was working all weekend. TM still refused to take him on though.