Straddling lanes on unknown roads

While i am bored sitting at palletline central hub, thought id throw another newbie question

Sometime ago i was stationary in a long queue of traffic in southampton. My satnav says turn left in x feet but i cant see the turn yet. The lanes were narrow, i decided to take the left lane and do not straddle both lanes. my ns was on the yellow line, same space on the os, two lanes each way.

No doubt when i approached the left turn it was too tight to take in my position so i had to wait while a gap develops on the os and i also had to take a bit of the road in the opposite direction. No drama happened.

Now the question is when you dont know the area should i have straddled both lanes from the very beginning for a turn which might or might not require that amount of space or should the lane discipline be in priority until you see the turn?

After that experience id probably take two lanes

Simple. If in doubt, straddle. Give it back in the turn if you’re too wide to prevent anyone sneaking up the inside.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

If in slow moving traffic where the lanes are moving at different speeds then wait and then take the space when needed but if in good moving traffic straddle early

What I do in unknown areas,stay in the left lane until you are near to the left turn then stick on my right indicator until someone flashed me out then you have the whole of the right lane to swing into to make the left turn,but I don’t do it until I’m right on top of the left turn and I’ve seen if I need to or not as sometime you don’t require the extra space.

Although straddling before entry is best as chris says staying left and indicating right then left can also work well. Signalling to others your intent by a thumbs up or sweeping arm motion can also rescue a potentially aborted turn.

Your surroundings will give clues as to what junctions are like except London where there mostly a tad on the tight side.

In the end slow it right down pay careful attention to your mirrors (especially nearside) and fudge her round. More room can be gained from exaggerating the turn but be careful of approaching traffic, give way to them until one leaves you room to get in.

If your sure you need to straddle be committed and ensure nothing’s sneaking up your inside, slow it down and youl be amazed how making a connection with other roadusers can turn a potential drama into a non event.

Course tail swing etc must also be considered that’s why they pay us the big bucks. :wink: Youl be surprised how often that tight turn ends up not being that tight at all by planning ahead.

Oh and don’t forget to thank everyone in sight, even that little old dear walking round the corner with the pushchair or that cyclist coming up your inside at speed, yep multiple hazards always appear when one is performing a tricky manouvre.

You can look out for clues on the road during your approach which will help decide if you need to start stealing more room.

A metal cone on the corner is a surefire sign that the corner has a cut-in reputation with artics.

Damaged railings, kerbstones, scraped poles, dented lampposts and the like tell you others have been before you…and failed. Tyre marks may also indicate that trailers want to scrub round, so more room on the turn is healthier for the tyres.

Incidentally, on the subject of thanks, I got a shocked look from a cyclist who had waited while I was trying to pull a rigid round a tight street corner in Hackney the other day. It was like a truck driver has never thanked him before! :smiley:

Straddling before entry can of course be a bonus as it may give you the choice of entry points. Straddling after entry can be difficult to achieve unless ones unit is of the longer type.

I’m surprised Dipper_Dave didn’t mention these points in his otherwise excellent post.

ORC:
You can look out for clues on the road during your approach which will help decide if you need to start stealing more room.

A metal cone on the corner is a surefire sign that the corner has a cut-in reputation with artics.

They’ve all been nicked mate! :open_mouth:

ORC:
Damaged railings, kerbstones, scraped poles, dented lampposts and the like tell you others have been before you…and failed. Tyre marks may also indicate that trailers want to scrub round, so more room on the turn is healthier for the tyres.

That’s all of Southampton! :laughing:

What road was it Priest, and why wasn’t I warned that you were in the area? :smiley:

Peter Smythe has it in one. ANY doubt-COMMAND the road.

Saves filling in accident forms.

Evil8Beezle:

ORC:
You can look out for clues on the road during your approach which will help decide if you need to start stealing more room.

A metal cone on the corner is a surefire sign that the corner has a cut-in reputation with artics.

They’ve all been nicked mate! :open_mouth:

ORC:
Damaged railings, kerbstones, scraped poles, dented lampposts and the like tell you others have been before you…and failed. Tyre marks may also indicate that trailers want to scrub round, so more room on the turn is healthier for the tyres.

That’s all of Southampton! :laughing:

What road was it Priest, and why wasn’t I warned that you were in the area? :smiley:

It was the left turn from a3024 to dorset road mate and was around june. No excuse for not trying to have a pint with you mate :slight_smile:

Thanks all for the great advice

I think i did something similar to what dave said.

Pete has a point while rog has a counter point so i am still trying to find the sweet spot between their posts

The object of the operation is simply to get the vehicle round the corner without causing physical damage to vehicle, street furniture, other vehicles etc and without causing nuisance to other road users.

Cant accept the bits about signalling right and moving over. Absolutely incorrect and amateur.

ROG has said the same as me but has made the point that the heavier the traffic, the earlier the move needs to be. It’s not contradictory at all.

I emphasise the need to take plenty on the approach, but giving it back in the turn if you’ve taken too much.

It only takes a few days of practice before this becomes second nature so it’s really not a huge issue. But very understandable that it causes concern in the early days.

Good luck all.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

I get where your coming from Pete but it’s not really amateur, a last resort, a sign you’ve cocked up and not straddled soon enough, or dictated by road width/traffic/unfamiliarity/being unsighted/. Perhaps even a test fail.

In the real world though drivers will encounter tight entrances, more likely to be small ind estates or customer premises entrances and they may not even be sure where that entrance is.

In these situations the right indicator then left slow sweep can work well. Although it’s wise to check with customer first if it’s OK to enter their yard before committing. Parking up short and walking to see them and ask works well.

Drivers need options and knowing there’s a trick or two they can use to create space is not a bad thing, amateurish perhaps but we spend our career dropping ■■■■■■■■, being able to rescue a potentially aborted turn or having to fudge a turn useing the limited road space available happens to the best of us.

Course natural preparation and forward planning for a sharp left is best, sometimes though events conspire against us.

We never stop learning and the first thing to learn is don’t panic.

…and if the worst happens and you can’t rescue it safely, just go round the block and have another go. If you’re lucky you might be able to do a 180 at the next roundabout, and approaching from the other direction may make accessibility easier.

Peter Smythe:
Cant accept the bits about signalling right and moving over. Absolutely incorrect and amateur.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

Nope,there is a set of lights I often frequent in Birmingham and on approach I want to turn left it’s permanently queueing the road I’m joining is as those in the lane to the right of me on approach who want to go straight on or right are joining a free flowing road ahead so if I were to straddle both lanes I would be blocking their way even though their road ahead is completely clear!!and would be doing so for a good few changes of lights before I got to the junction,which I’m pretty sure if you did on test you’d get a fail for holding up traffic for a good 5 or so minutes if you move over from “way back” and straddle both lanes!!!
So,because it doesn’t fit in with your way doesn’t means the rest of us are incorrect or indeed amateur it’s about reading the road ahead and making a judgement and seeing that if you straddle the lanes too early your gonna be causing chaos and stopping the flow of traffic unnecessarily.

Peter,

just to make sure i get you right

so you are saying that driving within narrow lanes, no matter how far your turn is the advice is to straddle both of them at the first available opportunity and give it back after the turn or if a narrow place does not materialise. correct?

If I understand Pete correctly Priest, he is suggesting that once you ’ decide ’ on a turning, dependant on the width of the road-you should straddle the lanes if performing the turn could endanger other road users ( for example tail swing on a 26 tonner or leaving a gap which could tempt a car to squeeze through an ever tightening gap ).

It’s a good question. As a newbie,‘road position’ is my biggest failing because i’ve got a 26-tonner with a ginormous tail-swing.I envy the tippers. If I don’t know the junction I usually either straddle when I didn’t need to and leave the inside/outside wide open,or stick to my lane and get boxed in until i let some cars go. It seems like a black-art to me. But then again I was taught to pass a test,not to drive. If the side I want to turn is wide open I indicate that way and hope the car behind is paying attention. Other trucks give me plenty of room (I think they know I’m wearing invisible ‘P’ plates) :laughing:

Dipper_Dave:
Although straddling before entry is best as chris says staying left and indicating right then left can also work well. Signalling to others your intent by a thumbs up or sweeping arm motion can also rescue a potentially aborted turn.

Your surroundings will give clues as to what junctions are like except London where there mostly a tad on the tight side.

In the end slow it right down pay careful attention to your mirrors (especially nearside) and fudge her round. More room can be gained from exaggerating the turn but be careful of approaching traffic, give way to them until one leaves you room to get in.

If your sure you need to straddle be committed and ensure nothing’s sneaking up your inside, slow it down and youl be amazed how making a connection with other roadusers can turn a potential drama into a non event.

Course tail swing etc must also be considered that’s why they pay us the big bucks. :wink: Youl be surprised how often that tight turn ends up not being that tight at all by planning ahead.

Oh and don’t forget to thank everyone in sight, even that little old dear walking round the corner with the pushchair or that cyclist coming up your inside at speed, yep multiple hazards always appear when one is performing a tricky manouvre.

Thats pretty well text book.

Acknowledging anyone who makes a space or helps you in any way works wonders, similarly if you show others that you are competent and aware by correct signalling and positioning a good percentage will help you for that moment to make all our lives easier.

As for commanding the road, there is a fine line between taking the room you need and using the size and weight of the vehicle to intimidate others, if people think you are a bully you lose all cooperation, and become another one who adds to the public misconception that all lorry drivers are arses.

Keep an eye on the way other traffic moves around you, competent drivers in other vehicles stand out, bicycles motorbikes cars vans lorries buses, even switched on pedestrians, if you act professional round competent drivers by driving defensively without overusing road commanding techniques you will find life is much easier overall in your driving life, good drivers instinctively can feel other good drivers, allow other good drivers to help you make normal progress for everyone.

One typical example here on the open road, using dual carriageways with roundabouts that are too small as many are for safe two lane driving around unless at snail pace, keep an eye on other traffic as you approach, you might well find that a car or van that was approaching and would be have been alongside you on the roundabout is actually hanging back possibly straddling both lanes a 100 yards behind you, you’ll get the feel for this type of competent other driver as you go on, he’s allowing you to take the easy swift line so do so if there’s no other traffic and its safe to do so, that way he’s as rewarded as you are by not having to slow to the aforesaid snail pace.

That way you both go through the roundabout swiftly and the car/van driver can follow your line but faster and be overtaking you very quickly a few yards after that roundabout in a semi slingshot manouever.
Note, always give that driver a wave/flash and/or pip on the hooter as thanks.

You’ll find that acknowledging others who help you does work out well in your driving lives, it’s a pity so many lorry drivers seem to lack any basic manners and courtesy these days, i suggest they are the ones who have to resort to bullying which trust me doesn’t work well in the long run.

eagerbeaver:
If I understand Pete correctly Priest, he is suggesting that once you ’ decide ’ on a turning, dependant on the width of the road-you should straddle the lanes if performing the turn could endanger other road users ( for example tail swing on a 26 tonner or leaving a gap which could tempt a car to squeeze through an ever tightening gap ).

that’s understood, however the original question is what the right positioning is if you are in queue of traffic and can’t see the turn yet:

  1. straddle as soon as you join the queue, even if you wont need that much space (remember - you still cant see the turn) and even if lanes move with different speed, which means you are blocking on of them. i suspect this is what Pete is suggesting

  2. exercise lane discipline and sit in your narrow lane and once you see the turn and realise you need to straddle indicate right, move over and then indicate left