8 legger:
I maybe wrong but i though that the UK had a narrow gauge compaird to the rest of europe thats why the tunnel trains dont carry on to other cities?
You are wrong. Scotland and England, as a homeland of Rail, dictated the standard dimensions, which is 1435 mm. Most european countries are using that on most lines.
Just a slight variation to this thread, but why can.t we use the canal system we have in major citys like London, Manchester and Birmgham(more canals than Venice) to deliver various types of cargo especially sand and gravel ?
Does any Truck Driver have any views on this■■?
It would take some traffic of the road, but like rail you will always need trucks to get it to the end…
It is slow but if you have 24 boats leave 1 an hour and it takes say 2 days from Northampton to London, and you can get say 30t of sand or gravel then eventually you will have a steady stream of goods being delivered,(720t per 24 hours■■?) a very crude explanation I know but hopefully you get the gist of what I’m saying.
orys:
8 legger:
I maybe wrong but i though that the UK had a narrow gauge compaird to the rest of europe thats why the tunnel trains dont carry on to other cities?You are wrong. Scotland and England, as a homeland of Rail, dictated the standard dimensions, which is 1435 mm. Most european countries are using that on most lines.
Thanks Orys. For some odd reason i always thought the tunnel and other highspeed lines where a wider track. 
8 legger:
orys:
8 legger:
I maybe wrong but i though that the UK had a narrow gauge compaird to the rest of europe thats why the tunnel trains dont carry on to other cities?You are wrong. Scotland and England, as a homeland of Rail, dictated the standard dimensions, which is 1435 mm. Most european countries are using that on most lines.
Thanks Orys. For some odd reason i always thought the tunnel and other highspeed lines where a wider track.
Becouse that true in some cases. AFAIK the TGV have wider tracks. But in Britain your highs speed trains are Pendolino one, they use normal track, but they tilt on the bends like the motorbikes, that’s why they can go so fast!
I am not sure about the tunnel, but the Eurostar is a TGV one, it might me wider.
the container trains used to leave willesden and go to perpignan so they must use the same size tracks but not sure if willesden had different size to the rest of uk.
the eurostar leaves london for the tunnel then on to paris using the same track in france as the tgv so are the tgv tracks wider or not? because the eurostar used to run on normal tracks before they built the high speed link in kent?
jj72:
I’m sure all you oldies remember Transfesa and their rail service into Paddock Wood
Indeed jj72, the strangest thing in my recolection of Transfesa in Paddock Wood was tipping a load of Spanish onions I’d loaded at Silla there, I suppose the trains had been held up or whatever. This was back in the days when we didn’t know where we were tipping until the import clearence agent in Newhaven gave us the paperwork.
Ross.
Wikipedia says
Info
Type High-speed railway
Locale United Kingdom
Termini London St Pancras
Channel Tunnel
Stations 4
Operation
Opened 2003 (Phase 1)
2007 (Phase 2)
Owner London & Continental Railways
Operator(s) Eurostar, Southeastern, DB Schenker
Rolling stock British Rail Class 373
British Rail Class 395
British Rail Class 92 (from 2010)[1]
Technical
Line length 108 km (67 mi)
No. of tracks Double track throughout
Track gauge 1,435 mm (4 ft 8+1â„2 in) standard gauge
so if it’s standard gauge then it must be the same for the tgv’s in france cos as soon as the eurostar comes out of the tunnel it uses the same line
orys:
8 legger:
I maybe wrong but i though that the UK had a narrow gauge compaird to the rest of europe thats why the tunnel trains dont carry on to other cities?You are wrong. Scotland and England, as a homeland of Rail, dictated the standard dimensions, which is 1435 mm. Most european countries are using that on most lines.
The Spanish rail gauge is wider than standard gauge, apart from the newly constructed AVE lines which are standard gauge and conform with the rest of Eurpoe, including the UK.
A major consideration of Herr Adolf Hitler in contemplating the possible invasion of Spain in the early 1940’s with the aim of taking control of Gibraltar and thence the Straits of Gibraltar and the mediterranean was the different railway guage used in Spain - 1668mm, Germany and most of the rest of the World run on 1435mm.
Spains railways run on 1668mm, if the AVE (alto velocidad) is different then it really makes no difference as this is an entirely new network and whilst massively impressive in every way, covers very little of the country in real terms.
In order for any operator to rail freight goods from Spain to any other EU country except Portugal they would need to build or use an existing facility (should it exist) to tranship containers from one gauge carriage to another prior to leaving the Iberian peninsula.
The concept sounds very expensive and innefficeint to me - maybe thats why Llacer & Navarro road haul fridges to the SNCF rail terminal just across the border from La Junquera near Perpignan.
Anyway, the gauge is not the problem. They just move the cars up and replace the wheel sets. It’s very common on the Polish eastern border, whole operation for whole train can take as short as 20 minutes and passengers don’t even need to leave the train.
There are also some projects of trains which can change their gauge on the run, if I am not wrong, there already are some operating, running between Berlin and Moscow.
And as Polish wikipedia told me (sorry, can’t find English version), they already builded some normal gauge lines in Spain: pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historia_k … beryjskich
Just found this (sorry, Polish only again): airport-on-rails.org/port/cplwnk.htm
They write there, that modern trains can change gauge “on the fly” - just slow down to 15 km/h and drive over special facility and it’s changes without stopping
orys:
Just found this (sorry, Polish only again): airport-on-rails.org/port/cplwnk.htmThey write there, that modern trains can change gauge “on the fly” - just slow down to 15 km/h and drive over special facility and it’s changes without stopping
That is part of what I read about Cerbere and Port Bou too.
this could be illegal under EU drivers hours regulations.
the regulations were brought in to create fair competition in the road haulage industry.
if stobart monopolises this, then he will be deemed to have an unfair advantage over other hauliers. the germans will then send in some aircraft to bomb the tracks.
Your posts are always funny phil. However… I can’t see the deutschlanders bombing the tracks while db schenkers are providing the trains… Mein gott!! 
just off the top off my head…
i cant really see andrew tinkler and head of shenkers working things out on the back of a ■■■ packet in their local tap room.
i think this would have taken months of planning taking into account a number of different scenarios with plan a,b,c,d and even e up their sleeves.
problems that could arise…
accident on the tracks
breakdown
weather
driver illness
i would have thought they would have answers for all these questions.
I have the answer alex… Send me to Valencia! 
they will no doubt make it work. Tink isn’t a multi millionaire through luck.
(all these expansion plans are great and stobarts are a succesfull company, however my wage rate belongs in the 80’s and you need to look at it asap!)
It would be far better if we pulled up the tracks and put the trucks on them, no cars, twin trailers, no slowing down through towns, bring it on.
8 legger:
I maybe wrong but i though that the UK had a narrow gauge compaird to the rest of europe thats why the tunnel trains dont carry on to other cities?So wont they need to change the boxes over to another train once it comes through the tunnel?
You are correct when you say the UK has a smaller gauge than the rest of europe. But it’s not the the track gauge, it’s the loading gauge.
Just like over here we operate taller trucks than europe; the opposite is true when it comes to railways!
Because of this 8’6" containers can be carried on the railways in the UK but 9’6" boxes can’t; although they can throughout most of europe.
Deepinvet:
Just a slight variation to this thread, but why can.t we use the canal system we have in major citys like London, Manchester and Birmgham(more canals than Venice) to deliver various types of cargo especially sand and gravel ?
Does any Truck Driver have any views on this■■?
It would take some traffic of the road, but like rail you will always need trucks to get it to the end…
It is slow but if you have 24 boats leave 1 an hour and it takes say 2 days from Northampton to London, and you can get say 30t of sand or gravel then eventually you will have a steady stream of goods being delivered,(720t per 24 hours■■?) a very crude explanation I know but hopefully you get the gist of what I’m saying.
The problem with the British canal system is that it’s too small to be commercially viable.
The canals where built / dug over 200 years ago, to a scale suitable for a horse to pull a loaded boat. A fully freighted pair of boats can carry about 80t. That’s a motor and butty, a floating wagon n drag, but you have to unhook the drag at narrow locks and pull it through by hand.
In the post WW2 period, the British Transport Commission was created to Nationalise all freight transport. They tried to totally dismantle the canal system. It was saved by volunteers, but is no longer suitable for commercial working. For starters, the whole system as it stands now would have to be dredged, just to get the depth required to run the boat pairs at 80 tonnes load.