I am under the impression if u start befor 4am we are limited to 10 hours is this true seems a bit unfair if I put card in at 03.45 to leave at 4 I am limited can we opt out indervidually or is it a group thing
IIRC, it has to be company wide
An agreement across the workforce must be signed to opt out. Otherwise, yes, you are limited to 10 hours if your shift commences between 00:00 & 04:00.
Is that 10 hours straight or 10:45 to include you break? (ie 3am-1pm or 3am-1:45pm)
Alzy:
An agreement across the workforce must be signed to opt out. Otherwise, yes, you are limited to 10 hours if your shift commences between 00:00 & 04:00.
Start time is irrelevant - if you work between midnight and 4am then you are a “night worker” and are subject to the 10hr limit. e.g. If you start at 4pm and are still at work at midnight, the 10 hour limit applies.
stewie1:
Is that 10 hours straight or 10:45 to include you break? (ie 3am-1pm or 3am-1:45pm)
The 10 hours applies to working time, not breaks or POA.
The 10 hour limit is for working time not shift/duty time which makes it possible to do a 15 hour shift if breaks and POA in that shift total at least 5 hours
Was told it only takes two to optout in a firm for you all to be opted out . And you can still do a 15 if you start b4 4 as your only classed as a night worker if you normaly start before 4am not if you do it now and again
chester1:
Was told it only takes two to optout in a firm for you all to be opted out . And you can still do a 15 if you start b4 4 as your only classed as a night worker if you normaly start before 4am not if you do it now and again
If not opted out then doing one shift including any period between midnight and 4am the driver will be under the 10 hour working time rule
There is no exemption for an occasional night worker
chester1:
Was told it only takes two to optout in a firm for you all to be opted out . And you can still do a 15 if you start b4 4 as your only classed as a night worker if you normaly start before 4am not if you do it now and again
Then whoever told you that was wrong. The rules regarding “relevant agreements” (whether they are agreed by the workforce or by e.g. a trade union on their behalf) do not allow an opt-out by only two workers to mean that all workers are opted-out (unless there are only three workers in total).
And the 10 hour limit does apply even if you only do one shift that includes some “night work”.
In general employers and workers can agree to exceed the 10 hour limit for night work. These agreements can be made by “collective agreement” between the employer and trade union or a “workforce agreement”.
If a worker has any part of their conditions determined by a collective agreement they cannot be subject to a workforce agreement. Wether a collective agreement entered into by trade union reps with a particular employer will apply to all the workers,union and non-union doing the relevant work,depends on the arrangements at the individual workplace and the terms of the workers contracts.
A workforce agreement is made with elected representatives of the workforce in most cases. A workforce agreement can apply to the whole workforce or to a group of workers. The conditions relating to a workforce agreement are as follows.
. An election must be conducted and those voting must be able to do so in secret.
. The votes must be fairly and accurately counted.
. Candidates for election must be relevant members of the workforce, or in the case of a group of workers they must be members of the group.
. Workers must be able to vote for as many candidates as there are representatives to be elected.
. The number of representatives to be elected is to be determined by the employer.
To be valid a workforce agreement
. Must be in writing and have effect for a specific period(not exceeding 5 years)
. Have been circulated in draft to all workers to whom it applies together with the guidance to assist their understanding of it
. Be signed before it comes into effect either
By all the representatives of the members of the workforce or group of workers or if there are 20 workers or fewer employed by a company, either by all representatives of a workforce or by a majority of the workforce.
to be honest WHO KNOWS and is anyone gonna take you to court 
nick2008:
to be honest WHO KNOWS and is anyone gonna take you to court
Well, from what we know so far, the authorities won’t bother and if it suits the company then they aint gonna invoke any internal misconduct procedures
ROG:
nick2008:
to be honest WHO KNOWS and is anyone gonna take you to courtWell, from what we know so far, the authorities won’t bother and if it suits the company then they aint gonna invoke any internal misconduct procedures
No one knows yet, but with Tachos being checked it might come to light, and if you have a serious RTA it will definately come to light…Then its explain yourself to Superbitch time !
and if you venture abroad you must take a copy of the agreement with you as this optout is a uk thing…you need to prove to the foreign police that you have a valid agreement or they may fine you!!..its only the uk that dont bother about the rtd rules.
xamtex:
its only the uk that dont bother about the rtd rules.
Really ? - There was a post on this site by a Spanish driver who said differently …
I could imagine say Germany and France adhering strictly to it but not so sure about the rest …
It really baffles me why people want to opt out of laws put there to protect them.
I never sign them and I very rarely work more than 10 hours in a night, every time I have it seems I am the idiot loosing out in the equation. 
The only thing needed in the RTD is the 6 hour workbreak rule as all others are covered by the tacho rules rest and break requirements
Roymondo:
Alzy:
An agreement across the workforce must be signed to opt out. Otherwise, yes, you are limited to 10 hours if your shift commences between 00:00 & 04:00.Start time is irrelevant - if you work between midnight and 4am then you are a “night worker” and are subject to the 10hr limit. e.g. If you start at 4pm and are still at work at midnight, the 10 hour limit applies.
Sorry, yes you are absolutely right.
ROG:
The only thing needed in the RTD is the 6 hour workbreak rule as all others are covered by the tacho rules rest and break requirements
All of them? I’m pretty sure it is easily possible to exceed the average 48 hours work per week (RTD requirement) or the 60 hours limit in any one week by quite some margin without falling foul of tacho rest and break rules.