starting an agency

Hi guys and girls, my name is Gareth I want to start a driver agency soon but need a little help if you can, first insurance what type of insurance would I need with drivers, driving other companies vehicles do I need to cover myself incase they damage it or worst case kill someone. Tax how do I work out the tax and national insurance I need to deduct from employees? Does an account work this out for me? To set myself apart from other agencies I’m going to do a driving assessment on them. I have worked for a few agencies and they have all made me do a written test but never have they bothered to see if I can drive or if I have a good driving attitude, however the assessment would be done in a car. I would like some feed back from you about this. Other agencies charge between 25% and 40% on top of the drivers wage one agency charge £12.50 (class 1) and pay there driver £7.50 this is in Manchester I think I will charge a little bit less and pay my hardworking driver more. Does any one know what other agencies charge and pay rates are? Please give me any feed back you have good or bad.

Many thanks Gareth

OK, i’ll ask first… are you a LGV driver looking to start an agency - I ask this as most agencies seem to be manned by salespeople who seem to know next to nothing about the LGV driver, the laws etc etc :question: :question:

Good point Rog, you’ll need to know about driver’s hours etc before you do anything (if you don’t already).

No offence intended, I think you’d do well to speak to one of those business advise thingys (some are free I think). I doubt there’s a great deal to running an agency, the ones I use have other companies do their accounts but it’ll be a 24/7 job, I’ve had calls at 2am on a sunday for example. Speak to someone about the business side of things to start with though :wink:

hi ROG, im a lgv 2 driver and a psv driver, i want to start a agency that gives respects drivers and doesnt treat them like dog dirt.

thanks for the advice darkseeker

Gareth86:
Hi guys and girls, my name is Gareth I want to start a driver agency soon but need a little help if you can, first insurance what type of insurance would I need with drivers, driving other companies vehicles do I need to cover myself incase they damage it or worst case kill someone. Tax how do I work out the tax and national insurance I need to deduct from employees? Does an account work this out for me? To set myself apart from other agencies I’m going to do a driving assessment on them. I have worked for a few agencies and they have all made me do a written test but never have they bothered to see if I can drive or if I have a good driving attitude, however the assessment would be done in a car. I would like some feed back from you about this. Other agencies charge between 25% and 40% on top of the drivers wage one agency charge £12.50 (class 1) and pay there driver £7.50 this is in Manchester I think I will charge a little bit less and pay my hardworking driver more. Does any one know what other agencies charge and pay rates are? Please give me any feed back you have good or bad.

Many thanks Gareth

Im sorry, but judging by your OP you seem VERY clueless about how to start up a basic business, let alone a (driver) recruitment agency. You really need to speak to a accountant & a book keeper before you do anyting else, otherwise with the business acumen above youll soon find yourself in over your head, shortly followed by personnel bankruptcy

Gareth86:
I want to start a agency that gives respects drivers and doesnt treat them like dog dirt.

In theory thats all well & good, but I suspect that it will come back on you and bite you in the ■■■.
The employer - employee relationship in an agency setup needs to be well defined.
Theres no point in being best buddy with an employee, only for them to turn on you.
As its hard enough for any agency to make a profit in the current financial climate, just look at the number of agencies going bust

i would start by talking to what will be your biggest asset, the drivers. i work for a good agency who pay well and value their drivers but i am leaving the profession due to lack of work and the endless costs and legislation. having spoken to other agency drivers, it seems a lot are planning to change trade too. the drivers CPC is going to be very damaging to driving agencies if these guys do leave before 2014. now probably isnt the best time unless you know you can supply work to your staff. some drivers are run off their feet, others, myself included are struggling to get more than 2 days a week during what is traditionally the busiest time of the year and dont forget that this is followed by the quietest time of year. it doesnt matter how well you treat your drivers, if you dont have the work for them and someone else does, you will lose them!

Duplicate posting removed from the O/D’s forum as it was unnecessary and irrelevant.

Gareth86:
Hi guys and girls, my name is Gareth I want to start a driver agency soon but need a little help if you can, first insurance what type of insurance would I need with drivers, driving other companies vehicles do I need to cover myself incase they damage it or worst case kill someone. Tax how do I work out the tax and national insurance I need to deduct from employees? Does an account work this out for me? To set myself apart from other agencies I’m going to do a driving assessment on them. I have worked for a few agencies and they have all made me do a written test but never have they bothered to see if I can drive or if I have a good driving attitude, however the assessment would be done in a car. I would like some feed back from you about this. Other agencies charge between 25% and 40% on top of the drivers wage one agency charge £12.50 (class 1) and pay there driver £7.50 this is in Manchester I think I will charge a little bit less and pay my hardworking driver more. Does any one know what other agencies charge and pay rates are? Please give me any feed back you have good or bad.

Many thanks Gareth

Gareth, the fact you’re asking those questions suggests you shouldn’t do it.

So you’ll charge less than the 25% the agencies are charging on top of the drivers wages and you’ll pay the drivers more. Planning on doing this for free are you.

Here’s a clue. In addition to what the driver is paid per hour, the employer has to pay employers NI and statutory holiday pay on that hourly rate. I’ll illustrate:

Drivers hourly rate £10/hr.
Employers NI (12.8% of hourly rate): £1.28
Statutory holiday pay (10.7% of basic rate - holiday pay not paid on overtime): £1.07

So for the £10/hr the driver gets, it actually costs the employer £12.35. So if you were to charge the client 25% above what the driver gets paid which is £12.50 per hour, you’d make 15p per hour. Out of that 15p per hour, you’ve got to draw a wage and cover all the overheads you’ll have. However you’ve said you’d like an accountant to do it all so your accountant has just swallowed that 15p profit and will probably want the same again.

Lets put a few more holes in this daftness.

The driving assessment. There is absolutely no point whatsoever in doing a driving assessment in a car. It bears absolutely no relation to driving a wagon other than there’s three pedals, a gearstick and a steering wheel.

Running costs. Running an agency, even from a room in your house is going to cost you £10,000’s a year before you’ve even drawn a wage. You can spend £500 just on ONE ADVERT in a local paper. 500 business cards will set you back another £100. You can easily use £150 a week in petrol running around visiting clients. If you’re planning on having driver negligence insurance, there’s another £3-£5k.

Wages. Clients aren’t going to pay you every week. Expect 60 day payment terms and monthly billing if you’re lucky. That means that you are going to have to stand the drivers wages for TWO MONTHS and that’s if you’re lucky and they pay you when they’re supposed to. Most don’t. If you’ve 5 drivers working fulltime earning £500 a week, you would need to have £25,000 just to cover two months wage bill until your invoices started rolling in and that £25,000 just meets their wage bill - it doesn’t pay your wages or any of the bills/costs, not even a postage stamp.

To sum it up: The costs are too high, the profit margin is too low and there’s far too many agencies already out there cutting each others throats. Clients rarely pay on time, if at all, and in the meantime you’ve got to pay the drivers.

A tale of caution:
A friend of mine had his own agency. did quite well and had plenty of work. Had 50 employees in various food factories and on farms locally. Hardly got a decent nights sleep, got let down by people not turning in and companies were slow to pay. Ultimately, even though he had the thick end of £100k outstanding in unpaid invoices, he ended up going bankrupt.

Your intentions are admirable Gareth but you’re swimming in the shark pool now mate. Take note of Conors post.

this has been done to death and to be honest with the basic questions you have asked i would say it’s a no go .

appreciate you wish to try something diffrent but it’s so easy to get into dept , the recruitment side is good sense at minute but they stand a high risk of non payers in the current climate .

put your money elsewhere something that dont matter about hard times pepole still require what your offering .

i have plenty of ideas and have been offerd the money by the bank for most but have decided tot to take them furtur at the minute as needs total commitment and stupied hours put in for little reward .

Apart from a very sensible contribution from Conor to these forums and in his reply to Gareth86, isn’t there also some powerful legislation that prevents anyone attempting to start an agency?

Gareth, how can you do a driver assessment on someone in a car? are you a driving examiner as well? Apart from the fact you will need to be out and about visiting clients, cold calling others on the phone and hoping you can get some staff to work in your garden shed for nothing or next to nothing.

You have a class 2 and a psv, go to see a proper agency and see if they will employ you.

Wheel Nut:
Apart from a very sensible contribution from Conor to these forums and in his reply to Gareth86, isn’t there also some powerful legislation that prevents anyone attempting to start an agency?

Sadly, no.

One thing Gareth could do, if he’s a good reputation and industry contacts, is to become a self employed driver basically becoming a one man agency like I did. What I used to do when asked to go to more than one place at the same time was to ring around my HGV licence holding friends to see if any of them wanted any work. I’d do one of the bookings, they’d do the other. I’d pay them the going rate (£7/hr at the time) and charge my rate (£10/hr at the time), paying my mate the following week which I could afford to stand due to the fact I used to just pay myself £150 a week even though I was earning £500+.

Conor:
So for the £10/hr the driver gets, it actually costs the employer £12.35. So if you were to charge the client 25% above what the driver gets paid which is £12.50 per hour, you’d make 15p per hour. Out of that 15p per hour, you’ve got to draw a wage and cover all the overheads you’ll have. However you’ve said you’d like an accountant to do it all so your accountant has just swallowed that 15p profit and will probably want the same again.

Would it be better to use self-employed drivers? Will that bring the agency’s costs down, as they will be only a contact box between employers and drivers and nothing more?

The driving assessment. There is absolutely no point whatsoever in doing a driving assessment in a car. It bears absolutely no relation to driving a wagon other than there’s three pedals, a gearstick and a steering wheel.

Come on! My car is specified nearly to lorry standard then! I have lights, seats, windscreen and doors fitted to it (and actually I have twice the number of doors and seats in my car than in average lorry :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing: )

hi guys, when ment using the car i ment it to see the driver had a good driving attitude like to see if the professional driver was tail gating, speeding or just rubbish in genral. they do this at First Bus when they interveiw you they start you off in a 8 seater mini bus and if you can drive that in a safe manner then they that you on. it was just an idear to set my self apart from the others.there are good agency drivers and we have all heard horror stories about the bad agency driver like we had one at ours and he put deisel in the ad blue tank, £2000’s worth of damage so trying to not take on the bad would be a plus in my book. coner i like the idear of being a s/e driver.

orys:

Conor:
Would it be better to use self-employed drivers? Will that bring the agency’s costs down, as they will be only a contact box between employers and drivers and nothing more?

It only saves you a portion of the employers NI and holiday pay as the hourly rate would be higher. It still wouldn’t stop you from having to have £10,000’s of startup funding to cover their wage bills.

Gareth86:
coner i like the idear of being a s/e driver.

It’s OK but it requires financial discipline (setting aside enough to not only cover your tax bill but also holidays and quiet periods) plus ideally being in a sound financial situation at home so you can weather any delays in being paid.

Conor:
One thing Gareth could do, if he’s a good reputation and industry contacts, is to become a self employed driver basically becoming a one man agency like I did. What I used to do when asked to go to more than one place at the same time was to ring around my HGV licence holding friends to see if any of them wanted any work. I’d do one of the bookings, they’d do the other. I’d pay them the going rate (£7/hr at the time) and charge my rate (£10/hr at the time), paying my mate the following week which I could afford to stand due to the fact I used to just pay myself £150 a week even though I was earning £500+.

youd also need employers liability insurance unless, a) your paying your mate in cash (no questions asked) b) your mate is also a s/e ltd/nova driver, and he invoices you, but youd also have to deduct 20% at source for the tax man

Gareth86:
we have all heard horror stories about the bad agency driver like we had one at ours and he put diesel in the ad blue tank, £2000’s worth of damage so trying to not take on the bad would be a plus in my book.

is this possible? … I doubt it, due to the difference in filler nozzles

peirre:
is this possible? … I doubt it, due to the difference in filler nozzles

why would i say it if it wasnt true, the agency driver put about 20liters in we found out 2 months later the mechanic said it when like porridge they had to replace some of the pumps and other bits

Gareth86:
why would i say it if it wasnt ture,

I presume you meant true, if so you will never make a living as an agency boss :laughing:

Truth and Agency in the same sentence :wink: