Scenario is this:
Stint 1. I drive for 2 hours and then take a 15 minute break.
Stint 2. I then drive for 2.5 hours and take a 30 minute break (this resets my digital tacho).
Stint 3. I then drive for 2.5 hours.
Have I broken the law because I have driven 5 hours (stints 2+3) with only a 30 minute break, even though my tacho is happy?
I found myself in this situation yesterday so took a further 15 minute break 30 minutes before the end of stint 3, but did I need to?
You took a 30 so you could of drive another 4.5
I wouldn’t think so, i’ve often wondered this myself.
Thanks guys - you are right, of course. I don’t know how I let the doubt slip into my mind, I have to blame an over-active imagination…
I have now found it in the regulations (but it wasn’t here when I looked earlier, honest 
)
A driver ‘wipes the slate clean’ if he takes a 45-minute break (or qualifying breaks totalling 45 minutes before or at the end of a 4.5-hour driving period. This means that the next 4.5-hour driving period begins with the completion of that qualifying break, and in assessing break requirements for the new 4.5-hour period, no reference is to be made to driving time accumulated before this point.
Your 4.5 hours of allowed driving is reset by:
OnlyAlan - from the point of view of the 4.5 hour rule there was no need for the extra 15 minute break near the end of the shift.
OnlyAlan:
Scenario is this:Stint 1. I drive for 2 hours and then take a 15 minute break.
Stint 2. I then drive for 2.5 hours and take a 30 minute break (this resets my digital tacho).
Stint 3. I then drive for 2.5 hours.Have I broken the law because I have driven 5 hours (stints 2+3) with only a 30 minute break, even though my tacho is happy?
I found myself in this situation yesterday so took a further 15 minute break 30 minutes before the end of stint 3, but did I need to?
Hi Alan,
Stints 1 & 2 do not exceed 4.5 hrs, so you’re ok on driving time.
You took breaks totalling at least 45mins, which you decided to split, so you’re ok on breaks.
The minimum break is contained within the maximum driving time, so you’re OK and as you yourself said, “this resets my digital tacho.”
Stint 3 is irrelevant to the above, but obviously stints 1 & 2 must be counted towards your daily driving time.
Stint 3 in your scenario starts, and is included within, the calculation of the next 4.5hrs of driving time, during which you may take another break (or breaks) totalling at least 45mins to reset the driving time yet again if you or your boss so wished.
At the end of your 30mins break, you could also have driven a ‘straight’ 4.5 hrs, but then you’d have needed a 45mins break to be taken all in one go without the option of splitting it.
You did not actually need the extra 15mins of break before the end of stint 3 in your scenario, because you’d already reset the next 4.5hr calculation to begin afresh from the start of stint 3.
djw:
Your 4.5 hours of allowed driving is reset by:
- a continuous break of 15 minutes or more, then a later continuous break of 30 minutes or more, or
- a continuous break of 45 minutes or more
OnlyAlan - from the point of view of the 4.5 hour rule there was no need for the extra 15 minute break near the end of the shift.
And the extra 15 minutes taken after the 30 minutes would not count as a break in any case. It wouldn’t actually count for anything taken alone like that.
Just a little note personally i would take 50 mins altogether as i have taken 45 min breaks and they haven’t registered as full breaks since I changed to 50 i haven’t had a problem.
Interesting, I was also slightly unclear on this and so presumed a 45min break was required BEFORE any planned driving time of 4.5hrs regardless of what had been driven before hand be it 2hrs or 3hrs etc. Not including EDR of course at the start of your shift. So I take from this a 45m break is only required before a driving time of 4.5hrs if you have just driven for 4.5hrs straight?
NiceRoadTrucker:
Interesting, I was also slightly unclear on this and so presumed a 45min break was required BEFORE any planned driving time of 4.5hrs regardless of what had been driven before hand be it 2hrs or 3hrs etc. Not including EDR of course at the start of your shift. So I take from this a 45m break is only required before a driving time of 4.5hrs if you have just driven for 4.5hrs straight?
You must take 45 minutes of break (either at least 45 minutes in one period, or at least 15 minutes in one period and at least 30 minutes in a subsequent period) before reaching 4.5 hours of driving time.
If you have already driven since your daily rest and want to drive for 4.5 hours continuously, you must take 45 minutes of break first as you will have no opportunity to take it during your 4.5 hours continuous stint.
In general, however, it is much easier to think in terms of “by the time I reach 4.5 hours of driving, I must take 45 minutes break” than thinking about the break you need to take before doing something.
djw:
NiceRoadTrucker:
Interesting, I was also slightly unclear on this and so presumed a 45min break was required BEFORE any planned driving time of 4.5hrs regardless of what had been driven before hand be it 2hrs or 3hrs etc. Not including EDR of course at the start of your shift. So I take from this a 45m break is only required before a driving time of 4.5hrs if you have just driven for 4.5hrs straight?You must take 45 minutes of break (either at least 45 minutes in one period, or at least 15 minutes in one period and at least 30 minutes in a subsequent period) before reaching 4.5 hours of driving time.
If you have already driven since your daily rest and want to drive for 4.5 hours continuously, you must take 45 minutes of break first as you will have no opportunity to take it during your 4.5 hours continuous stint.
In general, however, it is much easier to think in terms of “by the time I reach 4.5 hours of driving, I must take 45 minutes break” than thinking about the break you need to take before doing something.
That is the most confusing piece of information I have ever read.
You cannot take a break before you have driven. Break means an interruption from driving and work. POA isn’t a break but could be counted as one.
If you have driven 2 or 3 hours after finishing a daily rest period, you can then only drive 2.5 or 1.5 hours before you require a break from driving.
So if you are driving less than 9 hours per day you can get away with one single 45 minute break either in full or in 15/30 increments.
As soon as you exceed 9 hours driving you need 90 minutes break in total
Wheel Nut:
djw:
NiceRoadTrucker:
Interesting, I was also slightly unclear on this and so presumed a 45min break was required BEFORE any planned driving time of 4.5hrs regardless of what had been driven before hand be it 2hrs or 3hrs etc. Not including EDR of course at the start of your shift. So I take from this a 45m break is only required before a driving time of 4.5hrs if you have just driven for 4.5hrs straight?You must take 45 minutes of break (either at least 45 minutes in one period, or at least 15 minutes in one period and at least 30 minutes in a subsequent period) before reaching 4.5 hours of driving time.
If you have already driven since your daily rest and want to drive for 4.5 hours continuously, you must take 45 minutes of break first as you will have no opportunity to take it during your 4.5 hours continuous stint.
In general, however, it is much easier to think in terms of “by the time I reach 4.5 hours of driving, I must take 45 minutes break” than thinking about the break you need to take before doing something.
That is the most confusing piece of information I have ever read.
I agree - I was trying to answer what I felt was an awkwardly worded scenario, but couldn’t find a less clumsy way of answering. It is very confusing to think of taking breaks before 4.5 hours of driving, as the only answer to that scenario has to be take 45 minutes, when the break may not be needed after all.
What I was trying to say is that if you’ve already driven for one minute (or more) and you want to drive continuously for 4.5 hours - which is the rather unlikely scenario I understood was being posed - you need to take a 45 minute break first.
It’s much easier to think “I must take 45 minutes break before I reach 4.5 hours of driving”, then remember than 45 minutes can be split into 15 and 30 minute breaks (in that order!).
NiceRoadTrucker:
Interesting, I was also slightly unclear on this and so presumed a 45min break was required BEFORE any planned driving time of 4.5hrs regardless of what had been driven before hand be it 2hrs or 3hrs etc. Not including EDR of course at the start of your shift. So I take from this a 45m break is only required before a driving time of 4.5hrs if you have just driven for 4.5hrs straight?
I’m sorry I don’t know what you mean by “Not including EDR of course at the start of your shift” so I’ll ignore that part 
NiceRoadTrucker:
So I take from this a 45m break is only required before a driving time of 4.5hrs if you have just driven for 4.5hrs straight?
That’s not quite correct, a 45 minute driving break or split driving break will always reset the available driving time back to 4½ hours regardless of how much driving time you did before the 45 minute break. (Obviously that’s assuming you have 4½ hours driving time left in the shift)
Example
Lets say you drive for 2 hours then take a 45 minute break, you can now drive for another 4½ hours before having another 45 minute break.
Example
You drive for 3 hours then have a 45 minute break, you then drive for 2 hours before having a 15 minute break, you can now drive for another 2½ hours before needing a 30 minute break.
This is because the 45 minute break reset the available driving time to 4½ hours, the 15 minute break after 2 hours driving was the first part of a split driving break and the 30 minute break was the second part of the split driving breaks which brought the total break to 45 minutes.
You could now drive for another 1½ hours on a 9 hours driving day or 2½ hours on a 10 hours driving day.
Example
You drive for 1 hour then have a 15 minute break, you then drive for another 2 hours before having a 30 minute break, you’ve now had a split 45 minute driving break and the driving clock is reset, so you can now drive for 4½ hours before having a 45 minute break.
Example
You start the shift and do 1 hour of other work then have a break of 15 minutes, you then drive for 1 hour before having a 30 minute break, you can now drive for 3½ hours but must then have a break of 30 minutes.
This is because the first 15 minute break was taken before any driving was done so doesn’t count as a driving break, the first 30 minute break will count as the first part of a split driving break and the second 30 minute break will count as the second part of a split driving break.
A split driving break must be taken as a break of at-least 15 minutes then a break of at-least 30 minutes and in that order, so the first 30 minute break in the example only counts as a 15 minute driving break.
One more thing which catches out a few drivers
If the first break reaches 45 mins or more then it is reset for a new 4.5 hours - that first break cannot be deemed a 15 min first break followed by a 30 min break as the second
LEGAL
drive 2 hrs
Break 44 mins
drive 2.5 hrs
break 30 mins
drive 4.5 hours
ILLEGAL
drive 2 hrs
Break 45 mins
drive 2.5 hrs
break 30 mins
drive 4.5 hours
This is one of those weird silly things where taking MORE BREAK becomes ILLEGAL 
tachograph:
NiceRoadTrucker:
Interesting, I was also slightly unclear on this and so presumed a 45min break was required BEFORE any planned driving time of 4.5hrs regardless of what had been driven before hand be it 2hrs or 3hrs etc. Not including EDR of course at the start of your shift. So I take from this a 45m break is only required before a driving time of 4.5hrs if you have just driven for 4.5hrs straight?I’m sorry I don’t know what you mean by “Not including EDR of course at the start of your shift” so I’ll ignore that part
NiceRoadTrucker:
So I take from this a 45m break is only required before a driving time of 4.5hrs if you have just driven for 4.5hrs straight?That’s not quite correct, a 45 minute driving break or split driving break will always reset the available driving time back to 4½ hours regardless of how much driving time you did before the 45 minute break. (Obviously that’s assuming you have 4½ hours driving time left in the shift)
Example
Lets say you drive for 2 hours then take a 45 minute break, you can now drive for another 4½ hours before having another 45 minute break.
Example
You drive for 3 hours then have a 45 minute break, you then drive for 2 hours before having a 15 minute break, you can now drive for another 2½ hours before needing a 30 minute break.
This is because the 45 minute break reset the available driving time to 4½ hours, the 15 minute break after 2 hours driving was the first part of a split driving break and the 30 minute break was the second part of the split driving breaks which brought the total break to 45 minutes.You could now drive for another 1½ hours on a 9 hours driving day or 2½ hours on a 10 hours driving day.
Example
You drive for 1 hour then have a 15 minute break, you then drive for another 2 hours before having a 30 minute break, you’ve now had a split 45 minute driving break and the driving clock is reset, so you can now drive for 4½ hours before having a 45 minute break.
Example
You start the shift and do 1 hour of other work then have a break of 15 minutes, you then drive for 1 hour before having a 30 minute break, you can now drive for 3½ hours but must then have a break of 30 minutes.This is because the first 15 minute break was taken before any driving was done so doesn’t count as a driving break, the first 30 minute break will count as the first part of a split driving break and the second 30 minute break will count as the second part of a split driving break.
A split driving break must be taken as a break of at-least 15 minutes then a break of at-least 30 minutes and in that order, so the first 30 minute break in the example only counts as a 15 minute driving break.
Thank You for your reply, I did word my post a bit confuddling but you have answered the question I was trying to ask. I had assumed that if having:
Drive 2hrs
Break 15min
Drive 2.5hrs
Break 30min
You would then only be able to drive for 2hrs before another break was due. So that at any point of the day any two driving periods between any two breaks would always be a maximum of 4.5hrs. But you’re saying the above is taken as one period of driving and break so now a new period begins allowing 4.5hrs of driving either split or in full with either two breaks as above or if driving the full 4.5hrs either you finish your shift and begin daily rest or if you are able, take a 1hr break before you use one of your two 10th driving hours?
As you now realise the driving time isn’t a rolling 4½ hours, once you’ve had a 45 minute break or a split 45 minute break you can then drive another 4½ hours before needing to have a break regardless of how much driving was done before the break.
Even if you only drive for 30 minutes then have a 45 minute break the driving time is reset and you can drive another 4½ hours or accumulated 4½ hours.
On a 10 hour drive day you could do the 10 hours driving in any sequence as long as you never go over 4½ hours driving without a 45 minute break.
You could for instance end up doing:
Other Work 20 minutes
Accumulate 3 hours driving time
Have a 45 minute break
Drive 2 hours
Have a 15 minute break
Other Work 30 minutes
Drive 2 hours
Have a 30 minute break
Other Work 1 hour
Drive 3 hours
Other Work 30 minutes
Really appreciate that, thank you.
Nothing wrong in being cautious I suppose but at least I can push on a bit more now!
NiceRoadTrucker:
Thank You for your reply, I did word my post a bit confuddling but you have answered the question I was trying to ask. I had assumed that if having:Drive 2hrs
Break 15min
Drive 2.5hrs
Break 30minYou would then only be able to drive for 2hrs before another break was due. So that at any point of the day any two driving periods between any two breaks would always be a maximum of 4.5hrs. But you’re saying the above is taken as one period of driving and break so now a new period begins allowing 4.5hrs of driving either split or in full with either two breaks as above or if driving the full 4.5hrs either you finish your shift and begin daily rest or if you are able, take a 1hr break before you use one of your two 10th driving hours?
Your original scenario is NOT legal because the rules say this…
the rules:
Alternatively, instead of taking a full 45 minute break every 4.5 hours, you can take two breaks within a 4.5 hour period. The first must be at least 15 minutes, followed by another of at least 30 minutes.
So you can’t drive for 4.5 hours with only a 15 minute break.
If you split the break, BOTH parts must take place BEFORE you reach 4.5 hours.
In your scenario, you would need a 45 minute break instead of the 30 minutes and the 15 minutes would have been wasted.
If your digital tachograph resets the driving period to 4.5 hours, it is because you have taken your second 30 minute break
at 4hrs and 20 something, not 4hrs and 30 minutes.
To put another way, it must take you 5 1/4 hours to drive the 4.5, just as it does if you drive for 4.5 and then have 45 minutes break.
After the second 30 minutes, you may then drive for up to 4.5 uninterrupted hours, if you wish,
provided that you then either take 45 minutes or your day is at an end.
Regards,
Nick.
No its ok, I got that bit ok but it was the time available to drive after that second break where I was slightly confused. Got the rules prinred off now for referring to, too. Thanks again fellas.
Understood, I have joined this thread late anyway. 
If I may offer one word of advice, there is usually no need to run your driving time and breaks “up to the wire”.
Spreading them through the day will often avoid the need to depart from the rules if delayed for any reason,
such as a traffic jam or being held up at a delivery and your records will look much better if you are unlucky enough to have them
inspected by VOSA.
Regards,
Nick.