Split breaks

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

DannyDoncaster:
http://www.transportsfriend.org/hours/rest.html

just read this and there is nothing about you have to be able to leave your vehicle on a REST period? I always took it the stipulation was you had to freely dispose of your time end of, and in a suitable vehicle. don’t know where this leaving your vehicle thing is coming from.

That would be the freely dispose of of your time bit. You don’t have to leave your vehicle, but should you choose to, you must be able to. Therefore to stay within the law you really ought to have been able to arrange that you wont be disturbed or asked to do anything during your 3 hour rest period.

I know I’m being pedantic here but it is the letter of the law, so if you are going to count three hours on a bay as rest then you need to be able to justify it to the authorities. :wink:

Any Gurus here to clear this up?

Just seen the post from Wildfire above before I post this.

So yes, as I have said, there is nothing to say you have to do anything, only that you cannot be denied to do anything, therefore if you want to spend your time in the truck then thats up to you, however if you want to bugger off and spend time in the pictures or play lawn bowls or go swimming etc that also must be up to you, thats what “make free use of your time” means. So you must establish that you can leave site for 3 hours or at least guarantee that you will not be disturbed for three hours (should you choose to stay in your cab) before you can call it rest, if you can’t do this then it has to be break even if it goes over three hours as if you can’t guarantee that during that undisturbed time you will not be free to dispose of your time as you wish.

22

DannyDoncaster:
http://www.transportsfriend.org/hours/rest.html

just read this and there is nothing about you have to be able to leave your vehicle on a REST period? I always took it the stipulation was you had to freely dispose of your time end of, and in a suitable vehicle. don’t know where this leaving your vehicle thing is coming from.

If I’m on rest parked on loading bay I would be freely able to walk off into town and do some food shopping.

If I take a break on a customers loading bay they might not be impressed if they tip me earlier than they thought and I’ve wandered off into town.

Nobody said that you have to leave the vehicle unattended but to be a proper Rest you have to be able to.

God, I miss Coffeeholic…

W

23

When I arrive at my collection place there is no one there to ask not to disturb me, they will all be at home in bed until the start of their shift, and my trailer is empty so if I chose to have a wonder down the road to get something to eat (not going to happen because its a McDonalds ) I am more than free to do so. But I choose to turn my cab phone off and wrestle with my quilt and pillows for a few hours :smiley:

24

AlexWignall:

DannyDoncaster:
http://www.transportsfriend.org/hours/rest.html

just read this and there is nothing about you have to be able to leave your vehicle on a REST period? I always took it the stipulation was you had to freely dispose of your time end of, and in a suitable vehicle. don’t know where this leaving your vehicle thing is coming from.

If I’m on rest parked on loading bay I would be freely able to walk off into town and do some food shopping.

If I take a break on a customers loading bay they might not be impressed if they tip me earlier than they thought and I’ve wandered off into town.

Nobody said that you have to leave the vehicle unattended but to be a proper Rest you have to be able to.

God, I miss Coffeeholic…

W

Thank God theres another driver out there that understands the rules.

25

Driver of a high value load is paid not to leave it unattended unless absolutely necessary and they are on a night out tramping …

Would VOSA say that is not rest? - I doubt it very much

26

schrodingers cat:

DannyDoncaster:
http://www.transportsfriend.org/hours/rest.html

just read this and there is nothing about you have to be able to leave your vehicle on a REST period? I always took it the stipulation was you had to freely dispose of your time end of, and in a suitable vehicle. don’t know where this leaving your vehicle thing is coming from.

That would be the freely dispose of of your time bit. You don’t have to leave your vehicle, but should you choose to, you must be able to. Therefore to stay within the law you really ought to have been able to arrange that you wont be disturbed or asked to do anything during your 3 hour rest period.

I know I’m being pedantic here but it is the letter of the law, so if you are going to count three hours on a bay as rest then you need to be able to justify it to the authorities. :wink:

Any Gurus here to clear this up?

Just seen the post from Wildfire above before I post this.

So yes, as I have said, there is nothing to say you have to do anything, only that you cannot be denied to do anything, therefore if you want to spend your time in the truck then thats up to you, however if you want to bugger off and spend time in the pictures or play lawn bowls or go swimming etc that also must be up to you, thats what “make free use of your time” means. So you must establish that you can leave site for 3 hours or at least guarantee that you will not be disturbed for three hours (should you choose to stay in your cab) before you can call it rest, if you can’t do this then it has to be break even if it goes over three hours as if you can’t guarantee that during that undisturbed time you will not be free to dispose of your time as you wish.

thats what i have been saying in my earlier posts, i have turn up at places to load and its not ready, going to be another 3 hrs, not a problem i will go to bed, now if the load is ready in 2 1/2 hrs i won’t tell them to get me in 30 mins because i am on a split break its the luck of the draw in that case, but if they knock on my door at 3 hrs and 5 mins to tell me its ready then thats a split break :wink:

27

Darb:
When I arrive at my collection place there is no one there to ask not to disturb me, they will all be at home in bed until the start of their shift, and my trailer is empty so if I chose to have a wonder down the road to get something to eat (not going to happen because its a McDonalds ) I am more than free to do so. But I choose to turn my cab phone off and wrestle with my quilt and pillows for a few hours :smiley:

That’s very similar to us. The unloading staff at one of our most regular customers go home at five in the evening and come in at seven the next morning.

There is limited space in the yard and they prefer us to reverse on to the loading bay ready for the morning. After that we are free to dispose of our time but what exactly can you do on a remote warehouse in Linconshire is beyond me…

Looks like I might of answered the old ‘can you take a break on a loading bay…’ question by accident too?

W

28

There are only two things to consider her, you cannot take a REST period on a moving vehicle

And if you take a split Legal Daily Rest you have only worked a 12 hour shift :stuck_out_tongue:

29

DannyDoncaster:
http://www.transportsfriend.org/hours/rest.html

just read this and there is nothing about you have to be able to leave your vehicle on a REST period? I always took it the stipulation was you had to freely dispose of your time end of, and in a suitable vehicle. don’t know where this leaving your vehicle thing is coming from.

For it to count as rest you must be able to “freely dispose of your time”. If you have a 3h break where you are required to stay with the vehicle then you are quite clearly not able to freely dispose of your time and therefore technically it cannot count as rest and cannot be used as the first part of a split daily rest period.

Now of course in the real world you would just put it in break and call it a rest as the chance of being caught is virtually zero.

Paul

30

So answer to the original question is yes you can do 15 hours everyday with a split break if you get paid by the hour. If you work for a company that don’t pay for daily rest you will be getting paid a 12 hour shift. And its up to the driver to decide if they think the 3 hours will be counting as rest or break as VOSA will never get to the bottom of whether it was or not.

just to put a question out there!. i ended up parking up in Wansford layby just off the A1 once, i did not feel safe to leave my cab and freely dispose of my time due to fear of someone trying to probe my bum. would the 9 hours still count as a daily REST? :neutral_face: :blush:

31

Yes it would because you were free to do want you wanted except you were worried about it .

32

DannyDoncaster:
So answer to the original question is yes you can do 15 hours everyday with a split break if you get paid by the hour.

No the answer to the question is that you can do a 15 hour spread-over every day if you have a split daily rest regardless of whether or not you get paid for the 3 hour rest period.

Look, if you park up for a 9 hour reduced daily rest period how freely can you dispose of your time, theoretically you are completely free but in reality you need to get some sleep so you can drive safely the following day, so in reality you are to some extent at-least confined to the unit for most of the time unless you’re going to sleep in B&B or on a park bench.
Now how different is that to how much freedom you have when parked on a bay for 3 hours or more, I would say not so very different at-all :wink:

33

DannyDoncaster:
So answer to the original question is yes you can do 15 hours everyday with a split break if you get paid by the hour. If you work for a company that don’t pay for daily rest you will be getting paid a 12 hour shift. And its up to the driver to decide if they think the 3 hours will be counting as rest or break as VOSA will never get to the bottom of whether it was or not.

just to put a question out there!. i ended up parking up in Wansford layby just off the A1 once, i did not feel safe to leave my cab and freely dispose of my time due to fear of someone trying to probe my bum. would the 9 hours still count as a daily REST? :neutral_face: :blush:

Getting paid or not has nothing to do with it, you either do it for free or you charge them.

As for the driving and rest periods the same thing applies, payment has nothing to do with it :wink:

There are hundreds of cases where you may be delayed more than 3 hours and the driver has nothing to do in that time. Waiting for a crane, or a groupage load. Sampling, loading or cleaning a road tanker, breaking down an exhibition, roadworks, accident, etc.

You would utilise that time if you could, you don’t have to sleep, you could spend it on trucknet or reading a good book. The main difference is if you took a 12 hour rest period you could use three hours as compensation if required, three hours on its own can only be used to qualify as a split daily rest period. You cannot split a weekly rest period, even using the ferry option.

Simple Example.
You arrive at a delivery in Leeds for 8am as requested, the driver is told to park on the bay and wait in his cab, during the night the plant had a fire which burnt out the conveyor system. The German engineer has been called but he is coming from Heathrow. His plane has just landed. You are not at the behest of anyone now, you cannot leave the trailer because you are driving a rigid, you can relax, play cards, sleep, watch ■■■■, paint your wheels or polish your dashboard. You do not have to be able to get to Marks and Spencer’s or Woolworth’s You do not even have to be able to leave the premises. All that counts is that your time is your own and you are not under any instruction to do any work.

Experience would tell me that a foreign driver who is driving from Heathrow to Leeds will probably not be here and have the system reprogrammed within 3 hours, so I will take a split daily rest, it will help me to get home tomorrow for our anniversary.

34

Agree. i claim 1 or 2 split breaks every week with the type of places i deliver to. and if saying the 3 hours break asleep on the bunk was rest i will continue to, gets me a extra 4 hours overtime and £70 in the bank.

35

From what I gather the reality is that VOSA are not too worried aboout the 3 hour part of a split daily rest as long as the driver has a sleeper cab which they have access to

I think if VOSA stopped a driver with a day cab who claimed a 3+9 then they might get a bit suspicious :laughing:

36

interesting reading all this.

I have one question though - where does POA come into it? or doesn’t it?

37

kevchalluk:
interesting reading all this.

I have one question though - where does POA come into it? or doesn’t it?

don’t use never have, thinks its a waste of time if someone tells me its going to be a certain amount of time for something i will put it on break. for POA you still have to be able to freely dispose of your time for it to be legal so might as well use break.

38

DannyDoncaster:
… for POA you still have to be able to freely dispose of your time for it to be legal

No you dont - POA simply means waiting a known time length but not driving or working

That means you could be confined to a waiting room for example on POA

39

DannyDoncaster:

kevchalluk:
interesting reading all this.

I have one question though - where does POA come into it? or doesn’t it?

don’t use never have, thinks its a waste of time if someone tells me its going to be a certain amount of time for something i will put it on break. for POA you still have to be able to freely dispose of your time for it to be legal so might as well use break.

How in a Period Of Availability (for work) are you freely able to dispose of your time?

The whole idea of POA is to cut down your average overall working time by not counting all the wasted hours drivers accumulate waiting in queues at RDCs and Borders or even spinning urban myths in Tesco waiting rooms…

What the Authorities failed to realise is that most sensible drivers were already using Break on those occasions (which is perfectly legal).

The huge amount of accumulated hours we do is down to all the other stuff we do.

Same thing again, Coffee was so much better at sweeping this rubbish aside…

W

40

transportsfriend.org/wtd/poa.html

go on here clearly says freely dispose of your time in the same way as break. if Im reading it wrong please let me know. thanks