Carryfast:
muckles:
.Instead the average driver on snow or ice in a RWD car just oversteers and ends up going off the road backwards.
Meanwhile in the real world check out the Morris pick up running up the hill v the stuck fwd’s at 3.19 - 3.25.Must have held a super Racing licence like all the others.
So are you saying that nobody has ever lost the rear end of a RWD drive car and ended up off the road in slippery conditons?
Carryfast:
muckles:
So we go back to skinny tyres on old tread patterns all year, so a few people who can’t drive can get a bit of grip on the half a dozen or so days a year we have snow?Don’t see any reason why the old Michelin XWX tread pattern couldn’t be applied to modern type wide tyres with the same decent V speed rating if not more for example.
Maybe because the modern tread pattern do a better job in the majority of conditions they were designed to operate in?
.
muckles:
If you’re going to compare driving in snow to a rally stage, shouldn’t you also be advocating we use 4wd cars instead of 2wd, as I don’t think a 2wd car has won the WRC for 30+ years?And I also doubt most modern drivers have any knowledge of Saab rally cars or even much of early mini rally cars and I know the modern varient of the Mini rally car was 4WD.
If we use the RAC (As was) and latterly the Rally Wales GB, no 2wd car has won it since 1980, and that was the late Henri Toivonen in a Talbot Lotus Sunbeam. The following year, Hannu Mikkola won it in the first Audi Quattro. Ironically, Mikkola was 2nd in 1980 in a Ford ■■■■■■. The blue oval last won it in 1979 with the rallying God that is Ari Vatenen, with Dave Richards as his co driver. Richards then went onto run the Subuaru rally programme a few years later.
Sorry to move off topic, but if you want to know about rallying, then ask someone who use to compete/marshal. 
Ken.
Quinny:
muckles:
If you’re going to compare driving in snow to a rally stage, shouldn’t you also be advocating we use 4wd cars instead of 2wd, as I don’t think a 2wd car has won the WRC for 30+ years?And I also doubt most modern drivers have any knowledge of Saab rally cars or even much of early mini rally cars and I know the modern varient of the Mini rally car was 4WD.
If we use the RAC (As was) and latterly the Rally Wales GB, no 2wd car has won it since 1980, and that was the late Henri Toivonen in a Talbot Lotus Sunbeam. The following year, Hannu Mikkola won it in the first Audi Quattro. Ironically, Mikkola was 2nd in 1980 in a Ford ■■■■■■. The blue oval last won it in 1979 with the rallying God that is Ari Vatenen, with Dave Richards as his co driver. Richards then went onto run the Subuaru rally programme a few years later.
Sorry to move off topic, but if you want to know about rallying, then ask someone who use to compete/marshal.
Ken.
Ah! Dave Richards a man to be admired and that you can put your trust in, 
well when I say trust, I mean I checked I still had my watch when he shook my hand.
eagerbeaver:
.
+1
Quinny:
muckles:
If you’re going to compare driving in snow to a rally stage, shouldn’t you also be advocating we use 4wd cars instead of 2wd, as I don’t think a 2wd car has won the WRC for 30+ years?And I also doubt most modern drivers have any knowledge of Saab rally cars or even much of early mini rally cars and I know the modern varient of the Mini rally car was 4WD.
If we use the RAC (As was) and latterly the Rally Wales GB, no 2wd car has won it since 1980, and that was the late Henri Toivonen in a Talbot Lotus Sunbeam. The following year, Hannu Mikkola won it in the first Audi Quattro. Ironically, Mikkola was 2nd in 1980 in a Ford ■■■■■■. The blue oval last won it in 1979 with the rallying God that is Ari Vatenen, with Dave Richards as his co driver. Richards then went onto run the Subuaru rally programme a few years later.
Sorry to move off topic, but if you want to know about rallying, then ask someone who use to compete/marshal.
Ken.
But we have. Carryfast is a noted rally driver, who developed his own race winning tyres, whilst singlehandedly driving to Southern Italy in one go via the Brenner Pass. This was of course after he re-wrote the complete socio-econo-fordo-marxo manifest that got Thatcher into power…
muckles:
Carryfast:
Meanwhile in the real world check out the Morris pick up running up the hill v the stuck fwd’s at 3.19 - 3.25.Must have held a super Racing licence like all the others.So are you saying that nobody has ever lost the rear end of a RWD drive car and ended up off the road in slippery conditons?
No.Just nothing like as many as who’ve given up on trying to steer/drive a fwd car and thereby bringing the country’s roads to a grinding halt. 
Quinny:
If we use the RAC (As was) and latterly the Rally Wales GB, no 2wd car has won it since 1980, and that was the late Henri Toivonen in a Talbot Lotus Sunbeam. The following year, Hannu Mikkola won it in the first Audi Quattro. Ironically, Mikkola was 2nd in 1980 in a Ford ■■■■■■. The blue oval last won it in 1979 with the rallying God that is Ari Vatenen, with Dave Richards as his co driver. Richards then went onto run the Subuaru rally programme a few years later.Sorry to move off topic, but if you want to know about rallying, then ask someone who use to compete/marshal.
Ken.
Remind us what wheel drive the Lotus Sunbeam was.
Carryfast:
Quinny:
If we use the RAC (As was) and latterly the Rally Wales GB, no 2wd car has won it since 1980, and that was the late Henri Toivonen in a Talbot Lotus Sunbeam. The following year, Hannu Mikkola won it in the first Audi Quattro. Ironically, Mikkola was 2nd in 1980 in a Ford ■■■■■■. The blue oval last won it in 1979 with the rallying God that is Ari Vatenen, with Dave Richards as his co driver. Richards then went onto run the Subuaru rally programme a few years later.Sorry to move off topic, but if you want to know about rallying, then ask someone who use to compete/marshal.
Ken.
Remind us what wheel drive the Lotus Sunbeam was.
Ah I see now, when it’s a FWD rally car winning races, it’s down to the amazinly talented driver, but when it’s a RWD drive car it’s down to it being a RWD car.
I must be one talented driver then as I’ve driven both RWD and FWD cars in snow and ice over the years and not had any majors issues with either version.
Carryfast:
Quinny:
If we use the RAC (As was) and latterly the Rally Wales GB, no 2wd car has won it since 1980, and that was the late Henri Toivonen in a Talbot Lotus Sunbeam. The following year, Hannu Mikkola won it in the first Audi Quattro. Ironically, Mikkola was 2nd in 1980 in a Ford ■■■■■■. The blue oval last won it in 1979 with the rallying God that is Ari Vatenen, with Dave Richards as his co driver. Richards then went onto run the Subuaru rally programme a few years later.Sorry to move off topic, but if you want to know about rallying, then ask someone who use to compete/marshal.
Ken.
Remind us what wheel drive the Lotus Sunbeam was.
In 1968 my Dad kicked Mikkola’s arse. Along with two other very famous ’ Flying Finn’s '…
Struggling to get a clear picture 
Rauno Aaltonen (Lancia Fulvia HF)-Arse kicked
Hannu Mikkola (Lancia Fulvia)-Same fate as above
Timo Makinen (Ford ■■■■■■ Twin Cam)-Same fate too
eagerbeaver:
Struggling to get a clear pictureRauno Aaltonen (Lancia Fulvia HF)-Arse kicked
Hannu Mikkola (Lancia Fulvia)-Same fate as above
Timo Makinen (Ford ■■■■■■ Twin Cam)-Same fate too
You can make it out in the main picture.
If I’m reading it right, not bad, 20th overall out of 32 finishers and 96 starters. 
muckles:
eagerbeaver:
Struggling to get a clear pictureRauno Aaltonen (Lancia Fulvia HF)-Arse kicked
Hannu Mikkola (Lancia Fulvia)-Same fate as above
Timo Makinen (Ford ■■■■■■ Twin Cam)-Same fate too
You can make it out in the main picture.
If I’m reading it right, not bad, 20th overall out of 32 finishers and 96 starters.
How the F do you know that!
eagerbeaver:
muckles:
eagerbeaver:
Struggling to get a clear pictureRauno Aaltonen (Lancia Fulvia HF)-Arse kicked
Hannu Mikkola (Lancia Fulvia)-Same fate as above
Timo Makinen (Ford ■■■■■■ Twin Cam)-Same fate too
You can make it out in the main picture.
If I’m reading it right, not bad, 20th overall out of 32 finishers and 96 starters.
I was the amazingly talented and very young, had to have a booster seat, driver of the FWD Saab that won, you didn’t know I was Finnish and neither did I.
Ok not really, the top picture is good enough to read the info.
muckles:
Carryfast:
Quinny:
If we use the RAC (As was) and latterly the Rally Wales GB, no 2wd car has won it since 1980, and that was the late Henri Toivonen in a Talbot Lotus Sunbeam. The following year, Hannu Mikkola won it in the first Audi Quattro. Ironically, Mikkola was 2nd in 1980 in a Ford ■■■■■■. The blue oval last won it in 1979 with the rallying God that is Ari Vatenen, with Dave Richards as his co driver. Richards then went onto run the Subuaru rally programme a few years later.Sorry to move off topic, but if you want to know about rallying, then ask someone who use to compete/marshal.
Ken.
Remind us what wheel drive the Lotus Sunbeam was.
Ah I see now, when it’s a FWD rally car winning races, it’s down to the amazinly talented driver, but when it’s a RWD drive car it’s down to it being a RWD car.
I must be one talented driver then as I’ve driven both RWD and FWD cars in snow and ice over the years and not had any majors issues with either version.
No it just proved that a talented driver in a good rwd car will get beaten by a talented driver in an as good or even better rwd car.The same as you’ll find that the Mk1/Mk2 ■■■■■■,or possibly Lotus Sunbeam if there are any around,are the weapon of choice among amateur rally drivers not SAAB’s or Minis.
Nor is there any mystery or anything new about old school rwd Fords being good on loose slippery surfaces.Don’t remember the the Mk 3 ■■■■■■ or Mondeo for any notable successes in that regard though regardless of driver.
eagerbeaver:
Struggling to get a clear picture
Hopefully this might help.Don’t see the Mk 3 ■■■■■■ or Mondeo in there for some reason.
the nodding donkey:
I have been using the cheapest economy tyres I can get, for the best part of 20 years. Getting winter tyres in this country is absolute snobbery. The problems on the road are not caused by a lack of ‘proper’ tyres. They are caused by numbskulls who can’t drive. Cheap tyres with good threads are fine in all but the most extreme circumstances.
I agree with that,a tyre is a tyre,if it’s cheap enough it’s on my car,not had any problems yet
Carryfast:
eagerbeaver:
Struggling to get a clear pictureHopefully this might help.Don’t see the Mk 3 ■■■■■■ or Mondeo in there for some reason.
Now why would you have a Mondeo in an article about the 40th Anniversary of the Ford ■■■■■■? The clue is in the title,
The Ford MK3 ■■■■■■ Rally car launch timed perfectly with the start of the ■■■■■■■■■■ of the 4WD cars, so Ford didn’t compete as a Works rally team until they had their own 4WD car.
As the Mondeo was a 2WD of the car in the 90’s it wouldn’t be developed as a Works rally car in an era of 4WD, it was developed as a BTCC race car, Ford used 4WD cars for their rally program.
P.S I don’t that’s what EB meant by clear picture.
