Some clarity required

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Hi Folks, :smiley:

Looking for a bit of advise / some clarity on two things…

I was told when I done my DCPC courses that once you have your card, you don’t legally need to carry both parts of your licence with you, but it is a legal requirement to carry the DCPC card on you… Fine and so I have done. The other day some one from the office want a to photo copy my licence, when I didn’t produce it it got “A professional driver is legally suppose to carry their licence on them at all times!” I argued my point… but when other drivers stepped in and echo’d what the office worker was saying… I was like WTF!!! When I worked on the buses, still a professional driver, I had never heard anything about carrying both parts of my licence. What do you guys think or know about this issue?

I hold my hands up… I should know this… If you do 4.5 hours driving, have a 45 (or split it 15+30) then do another 4.5 hours driving, and you and needing to extend to 10 hours driving, Can you split your second 45mins? or does it need to be a full 45?

Thanks for any and all help :grimacing:

2

No you don’t need to carry both parts of your licence in the UK, but it makes sense to. Saves having to produce it later on at your inconvenience.

To go from 9 hrs to 10 hrs you would indeed need another 45 min break - same rules as any other 45 min break.

Hope this helps

3

I would agree why wouldn’t you carry both bits of your licence when you drive for a living?

4

Driving license is made up of paper counterpart and card (until June/July) therefore you should carry both although as stated most people don’t and if requested they produce it at a later date.

5

Not carrying either or both parts of the licence when driving is an offence for all drivers. The first way of dealing with this offence is to be issued with an HORT1, a ‘Producer’. It’s the same rules for all drivers regardless of whether you drive for a living or not.

The 45-minute break rules are the same regardless of when the break(s) are taken in the shift or if it is the first or second break.

6

For a driving day where the driving time is 10 hours then this can be done

drive 2 hrs
break 15 mins
drive 2 hrs
break 30 mins
drive 2 hrs
break 15 mins
drive 2 hrs
break 30 mins
drive 2 hrs

7

I leave paper counterpart and photocard at home, in case lose them. DCPC card stays in my Tacho card wallet.

8

Sooner the counterpart gets done away with the better! I’ve never carried it ever, I’ve been dug up a few times at various jobs, it always gets brought in the following day but they still moan and groan!! But most police forces even recommend you don’t carry it with you!!

9

I only carry my photocard , ■■ em if they want to check they can ring DVLA anyway.

10

ROG:
For a driving day where the driving time is 10 hours then this can be done

drive 2 hrs
break 15 mins
drive 2 hrs
break 30 mins
drive 2 hrs
break 15 mins
drive 2 hrs
break 30 mins
drive 2 hrs

Thanks very much for the help everybody, thanks ROG for a lovely presented example :grimacing:

The reason I never carry my licence around is because I like to keep it in a safe place. If I carry it around with me it would no doubt get wet, stolen or lost. I keep it in a folder in a metal case along with my V5c’s + mot certificates for my car and bikes, insurance documents for everything, passport, birth certificates ect… I like it being safe and right where I can find it.

Coffeeholic:
Not carrying either or both parts of the licence when driving is an offence for all drivers. The first way of dealing with this offence is to be issued with an HORT1, a ‘Producer’. It’s the same rules for all drivers regardless of whether you drive for a living or not.

Come to think of it Coffeeholic, I had a few of these over the years (Asked to produce my licence to a police station, usually of my choice and within 7 days) which, for me is more convenient than carrying it around with me :laughing:

merc0447:
Sooner the counterpart gets done away with the better!

Agreed :smiley:

11

Always carry both parts of my license in my wallet always have even before I was daft enough to drive for a “living”.
Got stopped by the rozzers few weeks back by Barnstaple coming up the M5 routine check,they said makes a change to see someone with both parts with them,was longer talking about idiots on the road than checking anything lol soon had me on my way.

12

In this day and age plastic part is enough.
Have always only carried the plastic part ,it has everything they need.
Never had a problem with it.

13

There is no legal requirement to carry your driving license (either part), however the Police can legally ask you to produce it at any time. If you cannot produce it at the road side the you are given a HORT1 form to show it to the police station of your choice within 7 days after midnight ie if you get stopped at 3am Monday morning, you have until Midnight the following Monday to produce it.

If you fail to produce your license to your police station of choice you will get charged for failing to produce your driving license, even if the one you have is currently valid.

On a side note. If your photo has expired, this does not mean your license is invalidated, it does mean that you can be charged with failing to have the correct information on the licence (s.99.5 RTA 1988). No points but upto £1000 fine.

14

I’ve never heard that you must, by law, carry your drivers licence with you when driving a lgv, yes, you must carry your cpc card (and adr certificate, where applicable) but not your driver licence as far as I’m aware.

All your driver licence details are instantly available to the authorities which can be taken from the info on the cpc card and tapped into their computer.

15

We have used this system for years .
Plastic part for roadside ,counterpart for insurance etc etc,job app .
Keep it safe won’t last long in your wallet!

16

Always carry the plastic part at least.
that’s the point of it!

17

alphonsohall:
I’ve never heard that you must, by law, carry your drivers licence with you when driving a lgv, yes, you must carry your cpc card (and adr certificate, where applicable) but not your driver licence as far as I’m aware.

All your driver licence details are instantly available to the authorities which can be taken from the info on the cpc card and tapped into their computer.

It is a legal requirement to carry your licence with you when driving/riding ANY motor vehicle regardless of whether or not it is an HGV. As Coffeholic pointed out earlier, although it is technically against the law not to carry it, the reality is that if you cannot produce it roadside you will be given a HORTI1 form and told to produce at a copshop of your choosing.

18

Coffeeholic:
Not carrying either or both parts of the licence when driving is an offence for all drivers. The first way of dealing with this offence is to be issued with an HORT1, a ‘Producer’. It’s the same rules for all drivers regardless of whether you drive for a living or not.

The offence is committed by failing to produce it when required to do so, not by driving whilst not carrying it. True, it is a subtle difference - but compare it with e.g. driving with no licence, insurance, MoT etc. In all those cases you are committing the offence whether or not you get stopped at the time (so you could be prosecuted after the event if someone grassed you up), but the fail to produce offence is only committed if you are actually stopped, the copper asks you to produce it and you fail to do so (even if you had it on you all the time).

The issue of form HO/RT1 is an administrative convenience - legally the copper does not have to issue one.

19

Roymondo:

Coffeeholic:
Not carrying either or both parts of the licence when driving is an offence for all drivers. The first way of dealing with this offence is to be issued with an HORT1, a ‘Producer’. It’s the same rules for all drivers regardless of whether you drive for a living or not.

The offence is committed by failing to produce it when required to do so, not by driving whilst not carrying it. True, it is a subtle difference - but compare it with e.g. driving with no licence, insurance, MoT etc. In all those cases you are committing the offence whether or not you get stopped at the time (so you could be prosecuted after the event if someone grassed you up), but the fail to produce offence is only committed if you are actually stopped, the copper asks you to produce it and you fail to do so (even if you had it on you all the time).

The issue of form HO/RT1 is an administrative convenience - legally the copper does not have to issue one.

What he said.

Also, the police can stop you at ANY time (ie when your in the shops) and ask you for your license, if they believe you may have committed a driving related offence.

The offence is “failing to produce” your license when required to do so. Hence why you are allowed by law to produce it within 7 days.

Power of constables to require production of driving licence
(1)Any of the following persons—
(a)a person driving a motor vehicle on a road,
(b)a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have been the driver of a motor vehicle at a time when an accident occurred owing to its presence on a road,
(c)a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have committed an offence in relation to the use of a motor vehicle on a road, or
(d)a person—
(i)who supervises the holder of a provisional licence while the holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road, or
(ii)whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe was supervising the holder of a provisional licence while driving, at a time when an accident occurred owing to the presence of the vehicle on a road or at a time when an offence is suspected of having been committed by the holder of the provisional licence in relation to the use of the vehicle on a road,must, on being so required by a constable, produce his licence for examination, so as to enable the constable to ascertain the name and address of the holder of the licence, the date of issue, and the authority by which it was issued.

RTA 1988 S164:-

(8) In proceedings against any person for the offence of failing to produce a licence it shall be a defence for him to show that—

(a) within seven days after the production of his licence was required he produced it in person at a police station that was specified by him at the time its production was required, or

(b) he produced it in person there as soon as was reasonably practicable, or

(c) it was not reasonably practicable for him to produce it there before the day on which the proceedings were commenced

It is an offence not to produce it when asked but a statutory defence to show that you produced it within 7 days as in (i) above.

20

Roymondo:

Coffeeholic:
Not carrying either or both parts of the licence when driving is an offence for all drivers. The first way of dealing with this offence is to be issued with an HORT1, a ‘Producer’. It’s the same rules for all drivers regardless of whether you drive for a living or not.

The offence is committed by failing to produce it when required to do so

That’s what I meant but, if you ain’t carrying it you can’t produce it. :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley: