the only thing that’s preventing an economic upturn…is the lack of being able to sack people more easily■■?
Quantative easing,has cut the rates that people get for their pension annuities,put £325billion into gov bonds,creating a lot of commission for ‘city boys’,today we’re told the cost of future energy bills will rise at least 200 quid a year to pay for the £110 billion investment needed to generate profits for foreign owned utilities co’s!
Could’nt some of the quantative easing money been used to build power generation plants,giving business to British engineering firms,British workers,and have something ‘solid’ to show for this ‘money’?
Not when the ‘political class’ of all colours is made up with greedy pigs desperate to get their snouts back into the corporate trough when their parliamentary interlude is done?
You’re making the classic mistake of thinking that our Lords and Masters could give a ■■■■ about us 
Believe the same was true in Cromwell’s day 
Watched a program about giant machines couple of nights ago, one of which was a drilling machine in Finland, being used to cut a tunnel some 30 miles long for a new metro.
They then panned to the factory where the machine was made…now where do you think that was, yep further up the country in Finland of course.
They then showed the huge salt cutter under Cheshire…now i wonder where that was made, Glasgow, Birmingham, Lancaster?..not on your bloody nelly it wasn’t, soddin imported just like all the bloody short life vehicles we drive in our line of work.
As said above, the people who lead this country do not give a toss, nor the people who own them.
British voters, ha, turkeys voted for Christmas for bloody years, they deserve whats coming.
There was a school of thought that a country could survive on trading and service economy alone- unfortuantly on the trading side we got undercut, and that left the service side, which only works if someone is making money somewhere else.
Britain had a lot of skills but lets look at one I know, heavy engineering. Britain had the lead for many in producing heavy engineered peices, but it is a dirty industry and got no investment - so it died, the only real company left is Sheffield Forge Masters and they only survive contract to contract- we sold all the engineering, tooling and skills abroad- now when that heavy engineering expertise is in demand we dont have the facilities or skill set to even compete
The current price of coal means almost every pit we had would now be competitive(If only we hadnt shut them) the current price of slab steel means that Sheerness. Llawnwern Sheffield and Scunthorpe would now be making money for Britain- but we have teesside owned by a Thai company exporting to Thailand and the profits not going to UK PLC
Juddian:
British voters, ha, turkeys voted for Christmas for bloody years, they deserve whats coming.
Every mainstream party is Pro EU. Not that our inclusion of its legislation has ever been democratic. But to side with any party that is anti EU would carry a certain stigmatism as they all appear (or are labelled) as far right groups !!! There’s plenty of research to believe that the mainstream populace does not want to rock the boat or been seen as odd or outlandish and will follow the rest. You can see vids of the research on you tube. S|o i’m not so sure that they ‘deserve whats coming’, but they are going to get it !!!
Whetever the political problem,the state this country is in today can in my opinion be laid at the door of our willingness to allow professional politicians,men and women elected without any actual life experience allowed to rule with an incredible level of incompetence.For these professionals the EU is an Eldorada,the trough of troughs so it is in their interests to keep it going no matter what the cost to us peasants.Life is tough today and it will be tomorrow and the day after,they don’t know what to do.
Armagedon:
Whetever the political problem,the state this country is in today can in my opinion be laid at the door of our willingness to allow professional politicians,men and women elected without any actual life experience allowed to rule with an incredible level of incompetence.For these professionals the EU is an Eldorada,the trough of troughs so it is in their interests to keep it going no matter what the cost to us peasants.Life is tough today and it will be tomorrow and the day after,they don’t know what to do.
And by the way - I don’t believe anyone has been sent to prison because they couldn’t pay their bills?
lynchy:
the only thing that’s preventing an economic upturn…is the lack of being able to sack people more easily■■?
The proposals outlined in the Beercroft report are little more than a return to the “Victorian values” that seem to be the tory ideal.
The right to sack people more easily is one of these proposals, as is the child labour reforms that are suggested. A company that employs children (13-16) has to have a council permit, however the proposal is that this should be relaxed for small firms.
Beercroft himself admitted his plans would mean some people were sacked “simply because their employer didn’t like them”. But he said the measures were a “price worth paying”. (Daily Mirror)
The Daily Telegraph publishes the whole report which among other things recommends:
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Delaying laws which will force companies to provide pensions for their workers from this autumn. The report states: “It is unclear why introducing from 2012 a measure that will costs employers £6 billion per year, individuals £7 billion per year and government £2 billion per year is sensible in the current economic climate”.
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Stopping the planned spread of flexible working to allow all employees to request changes to their standard working week. It recommends a new voluntary code of conduct rather than laws.
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A watering down of the so-called “Tupe” rules that mean that a supplier taking over another’s firm’s contract and workers must respect the existing terms of employment for workers. This is a particular issue when private firms take over roles previously conducted by the public sector.
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Scrapping plans for firms to introduce equal pay audits.
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Allowing larger firms to make so-called “collective redundancies where more than 100 workers are dismissed with only 30 days notice. This notice period is currently only available for smaller firms, which means that larger firms have to pay people an extra 60 days worth of wages.
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A new online immigration system which allows employers to check a potential workers’ legal employment status. At the moment, firms have to keep paper records for up to two years after an employee has left.
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A modest amount of one-off work by the Home Office…would eliminate any risk of well-meaning employers fearing or facing prosecution for honest mistakes.,” the report warns.
Rikki-UK:
There was a school of thought that a country could survive on trading and service economy alone- unfortuantly on the trading side we got undercut, and that left the service side, which only works if someone is making money somewhere else.Britain had a lot of skills but lets look at one I know, heavy engineering. Britain had the lead for many in producing heavy engineered peices, but it is a dirty industry and got no investment - so it died, the only real company left is Sheffield Forge Masters and they only survive contract to contract- we sold all the engineering, tooling and skills abroad- now when that heavy engineering expertise is in demand we dont have the facilities or skill set to even compete
The current price of coal means almost every pit we had would now be competitive(If only we hadnt shut them) the current price of slab steel means that Sheerness. Llawnwern Sheffield and Scunthorpe would now be making money for Britain- but we have teesside owned by a Thai company exporting to Thailand and the profits not going to UK PLC
Nothing to do with greedy union bosses leading workers to the precipice like lambs to the abbatoir then?
Nothing to do with lazy employees doing the minimum they can get away with, knowing they can’t be sacked so long as they turn up on time every day?
Nothing to do with the common British attutude that workers and bosses are on different sides of some sort of class war?
Santa:
Rikki-UK:
There was a school of thought that a country could survive on trading and service economy alone- unfortuantly on the trading side we got undercut, and that left the service side, which only works if someone is making money somewhere else.Britain had a lot of skills but lets look at one I know, heavy engineering. Britain had the lead for many in producing heavy engineered peices, but it is a dirty industry and got no investment - so it died, the only real company left is Sheffield Forge Masters and they only survive contract to contract- we sold all the engineering, tooling and skills abroad- now when that heavy engineering expertise is in demand we dont have the facilities or skill set to even compete
The current price of coal means almost every pit we had would now be competitive(If only we hadnt shut them) the current price of slab steel means that Sheerness. Llawnwern Sheffield and Scunthorpe would now be making money for Britain- but we have teesside owned by a Thai company exporting to Thailand and the profits not going to UK PLC
Nothing to do with greedy bosses leading workers like lambs to the abbatoir then? FTFY>
Nothing to do with lazy employees doing the minimum they can get away with, knowing they can’t be sacked so long as they turn up on time every day? I’d suggest that’s incompetent management really?Nothing to do with the common British attutude that workers and bosses are on different sides of some sort of class war?
That’s a two way street in my experience!
Santa:
Rikki-UK:
There was a school of thought that a country could survive on trading and service economy alone- unfortuantly on the trading side we got undercut, and that left the service side, which only works if someone is making money somewhere else.Britain had a lot of skills but lets look at one I know, heavy engineering. Britain had the lead for many in producing heavy engineered peices, but it is a dirty industry and got no investment - so it died, the only real company left is Sheffield Forge Masters and they only survive contract to contract- we sold all the engineering, tooling and skills abroad- now when that heavy engineering expertise is in demand we dont have the facilities or skill set to even compete
The current price of coal means almost every pit we had would now be competitive(If only we hadnt shut them) the current price of slab steel means that Sheerness. Llawnwern Sheffield and Scunthorpe would now be making money for Britain- but we have teesside owned by a Thai company exporting to Thailand and the profits not going to UK PLC
Nothing to do with greedy union bosses leading workers to the precipice like lambs to the abbatoir then?
Nothing to do with lazy employees doing the minimum they can get away with, knowing they can’t be sacked so long as they turn up on time every day?
Nothing to do with the common British attutude that workers and bosses are on different sides of some sort of class war?
There is far more to the British laziness than meets the eye, I concede that laziness is a problem, but it has been brought about by a certain amount of unfairness by those who are supposed to lead.
My recent experience in management was quite depressing, I had managers working for me who thought a good days work consisted of trying to do the least amount of work possible and perusing the internet for holidays etc.
When I made a move to re-educate these people, I was told by the directors that I was being unreasonable 
I now know why, because the directors were lazy, useless incompetent gits(They have since gone broke 
) As I told them they would…Sometimes it seemed that I was the only one who wanted to work and progress, the whole thing just got on my nerves and was instrumental in my resigining.
Anyone who doesn`t want to work, but get paid, should be shot in front of their families, not sacked 
Along with those who bleed companies dry and put everybody elses job in danger I think this is what the Govt. are trying to combat.
There will always be a job for a good man/woman
A lot of how we view each others working practices is primarily down to the opinions and agendas of the likes of the Murdoch/D.Mail corporate biased media.
Thankfully the working population are beginning to see through this propaganda…and not before time.
Come the next election, too many of those saying “Tory, Labour? - Never again!” will in fact go back to the fold when they look at the mainstream opinion going to one of the main parties at the last minute, like a Labour candidate talking about Tory stuff, or Tories talking about “A bigger piece of the cake” as if he were sprouting labour ideals.
Either way, enough of the public will buy it on election day so that the minor parties don’t even get a seat, just like last time. 
The next election will most likely be another hung parliament, with the independents holding the balance of power, since the Libdems by that point will have less seats than some of the single entities within the independent block! Gordon Brown, if you remember was unable to form a “government of the losers” because there were not enough of them to run down the ConDem block.
Blair won 3 terms because he promised to be Tory-like, and ditch clause 4.
Cameron will lose because he’s been too Clegg-like (Clegg being a devout European), and hasn’t done any of the things necessary to help the economy along with law & order, BUT has instead done plenty of the unnecessary hurt like destroy jobs in the name of “cuts”. This is all whilst borrowing even more money than Gordon Brown!
Deficit reduction my arse!
Bad stuff has already been implemented, leaving the vaguely-promised “jam tomorrow” stuff only “talked about” two years into the parliament.
Milliband won’t get enough for a win, because the wrong one is head of the red show.
Santa:
Nothing to do with greedy union bosses leading workers to the precipice like lambs to the abbatoir then?
Nothing to do with lazy employees doing the minimum they can get away with, knowing they can’t be sacked so long as they turn up on time every day?
Nothing to do with the common British attutude that workers and bosses are on different sides of some sort of class war?
+1
A job is, IMO, a privilege and not a right. It is something you have to earn, something you have to work hard at to keep. As an employer if you have created a job for someone you should be able to do whatever you like with that job without worrying about excessive red tape and the danger of being taken to court if you don’t dot every i and cross every t when it comes to getting rid of a lazy or incompetent employee. I think for far too long employees have been increasingly given more rights at the expense of employers and I can certainly understand why in the current climate a lot of employers are very reluctant to take on more staff as they are worried that if it turns out they’re no longer needed that they won’t be able to get rid of them.
Paul
repton:
Santa:
Nothing to do with greedy union bosses leading workers to the precipice like lambs to the abbatoir then?
Nothing to do with lazy employees doing the minimum they can get away with, knowing they can’t be sacked so long as they turn up on time every day?
Nothing to do with the common British attutude that workers and bosses are on different sides of some sort of class war?+1
A job is, IMO, a privilege and not a right. It is something you have to earn, something you have to work hard at to keep. As an employer if you have created a job for someone you should be able to do whatever you like with that job without worrying about excessive red tape and the danger of being taken to court if you don’t dot every i and cross every t when it comes to getting rid of a lazy or incompetent employee. I think for far too long employees have been increasingly given more rights at the expense of employers and I can certainly understand why in the current climate a lot of employers are very reluctant to take on more staff as they are worried that if it turns out they’re no longer needed that they won’t be able to get rid of them.
Paul
You’re on day release from some institution aren’t you? keep taking the pills…
44 Tonne Ton:
repton:
Santa:
Nothing to do with greedy union bosses leading workers to the precipice like lambs to the abbatoir then?
Nothing to do with lazy employees doing the minimum they can get away with, knowing they can’t be sacked so long as they turn up on time every day?
Nothing to do with the common British attutude that workers and bosses are on different sides of some sort of class war?+1
A job is, IMO, a privilege and not a right. It is something you have to earn, something you have to work hard at to keep. As an employer if you have created a job for someone you should be able to do whatever you like with that job without worrying about excessive red tape and the danger of being taken to court if you don’t dot every i and cross every t when it comes to getting rid of a lazy or incompetent employee. I think for far too long employees have been increasingly given more rights at the expense of employers and I can certainly understand why in the current climate a lot of employers are very reluctant to take on more staff as they are worried that if it turns out they’re no longer needed that they won’t be able to get rid of them.
Paul
You’re on day release from some institution aren’t you? keep taking the pills…
A job is a privilage■■? Well I’m gutted!!!
I wrongly thought that it was an offer of employment by a business (or commercial enterprise or public body) that needed a person (worker/workforce etc) to make a success of it for the good of the enterprise (or community if a public body) to make a profit (or make life better for the community that it serves) for the social and economic benefit of the people of the country?
In doing so an enterprise and it’s investors received a share of the profits (dividend) and put some of those profits back into said enterprise and therefore grew it to perpetuate itself over time and therefore of course more dividends! The worker or workforce was paid a ‘wage’ in return for his/her labour or efforts which made those profits for the investors. A side product of this enterprise carrying on this business was something called ‘taxation’. Now taxation was/is needed to support those workers that were working in non profit making roles that were required by the people (education, hygiene services, disabled services etc etc) as part of the processes of having a MORAL democracy. This is what wars have been fought for and not only the ‘greenback’ although it will be there somewhere!
As such, workers/workforces have, over time negotiated terms and conditions of employment which, rightly or wrongly are those that are offered at the time those workers are offered said jobs and accept them in good faith. The problems arise when those T&C’s are deemed unacceptable for whatever reason and either side thinks they can just ‘park’ them and start again!No one should be forced to work with the threat of dismissal for spurious reasons hanging over them - it would just be a charter for bullies!Companies already have the ultimate sanction - they do not need any more!!! All of the red tape and rules were instigated by the powers that be with advice from ‘think tanks’, experts and business leaders!
Just think, if you apply for a loan or mortgage etc, the question comes, how long have you been there? Answer: A week Sir! Erm, he says, and is this a permanent job? I think so Sir! Erm, he says again. Then he says: At this time we are unable to consider your application due to the unknown length of time ABC Business Enterprises Ltd intend to employ you - good day!
What a great way to get the economy moving!Somehow I don’t think so.
The law should not be used as a business tool - if the current T&C’s are deemed to be no longer relevent then NEGOTIATION should be the tool of choice to ammend them. If this fails then of course other courses of action would need to be considered.
If management can’t select appropriate staff, and realise it within 3 months (trial period) and even more so before 12 months elapses (the time an employee has to be with a company before they gain any protection from the employment laws)then I think british management needs to re-appraise it’s own abilities and they may just find the cause of the problems that they perceive are afflicting business!
I’m willing to suggest that if we got rid of a couple (not too generous) of layers of management and got on with the actaul job then business would be more efficient and profitable! Statisticians can make any numbers look how they want them to look but it takes a real business man (or woman) with their finger on the pulse to make money!
fredthered:
I wrongly thought that it was an offer of employment by a business (or commercial enterprise or public body) that needed a person (worker/workforce etc) to make a success of it for the good of the enterprise (or community if a public body) to make a profit (or make life better for the community that it serves) for the social and economic benefit of the people of the country?
In some left wing paradise that might be the case but in the world we live in today the “good of the enterprise” and the “social and economic benefit of the people of the country” sadly count for nothing. For 99%+ of employees and businesses it is simply about the money.
fredthered:
Just think, if you apply for a loan or mortgage etc, the question comes, how long have you been there? Answer: A week Sir! Erm, he says, and is this a permanent job? I think so Sir! Erm, he says again. Then he says: At this time we are unable to consider your application due to the unknown length of time ABC Business Enterprises Ltd intend to employ you - good day!What a great way to get the economy moving!Somehow I don’t think so.
If you’ve only been in a job 3 weeks then the situation wouldn’t change under the new rules that have been suggested. As you correctly point out further down your post if you’ve been in a job less than 12 months then you already have next to no protection.
fredthered:
I’m willing to suggest that if we got rid of a couple (not too generous) of layers of management and got on with the actaul job then business would be more efficient and profitable! Statisticians can make any numbers look how they want them to look but it takes a real business man (or woman) with their finger on the pulse to make money!
That’s a good idea but sadly the current laws protect the management just the same as they do the people who they manage so it isn’t as easy as just “getting rid” of them… Certainly most if not all public services are full of far too many layers of management created by the government trying to buy votes and improve unemployment figures by borrowing money to pay for all the middle management non-jobs. As far as private companies go if they want lots of layers of middle management then that’s up to them, it’s their business they can do what they like with it as far as I’m concerned.
Paul