If there is a low supply of drivers and if there is why have conditions not inproved
Answer, it has always been like that and will never improve
And the reason is any sector that employs unprofessional people will always go for the cheapest labour regardless of the outcome
Im fairly good at putting money on outcomes and if its a no deal then conditions might improve
Like who would want to work in a country in Europe that’s outside of all rules it would be like wanting to work in Turkey or the Lebanon
The hourly rate does seem gone up over the last couple of years,I remember a few years back,the agencies were only offering £9,its gone up to £13 now
Yep…when I joined this forum,glory boys,were earning £7.50.
Now they’re on £10.
The ones that “won’t get out of bed for less than £20ph” - present a bit of a paradox:
The top dollar rates come with the lower range vehicles, and visa-versa. So… If it’s good kit you’ve got, suitable for tramping to Vladivostok and all - then you won’t be getting out of that bed - because you’re not being paid to be IN it to start with!
I still think it’s a joke that a Tramper doesn’t get paid all the hours they are in that truck…
I also think it is hypocritical of the EU not to enforce the UK minimum wage for those drivers that are already spending the vast majority of their working hours on their tramps, in UK laybys, sliproads, under motorway bridges, and anywhere else they can park up without being kicked out of bed - but this time by Plod… 
I worked for a company that reduced the hourly rate and paid a tax-free meal allowance. The result was that if you worked over ten paid hours per day you were worse off, likewise if you weren’t away from your base for ten hours you didn’t get the allowance.
Fincham:
I worked for a company that reduced the hourly rate and paid a tax-free meal allowance. The result was that if you worked over ten paid hours per day you were worse off, likewise if you weren’t away from your base for ten hours you didn’t get the allowance.
Dropping in at another of the firm’s depots some distance from your base depot - also had the effect of re-setting the “10 hours away” to zero again.
I believe Stobarts make use of this particular rule…
Winseer:
I also think it is hypocritical of the EU not to enforce the UK minimum wage for those drivers that are already spending the vast majority of their working hours on their tramps, in UK laybys, sliproads, under motorway bridges, and anywhere else they can park up without being kicked out of bed - but this time by Plod…
It’s not up to the EU. It’s up to the ind8vudual country.
Drive in Germany and you need a declaration that you’re being paid at least the minimum wage for Germany. Same in France now.
Just because the UK doesn’t enforce something - like say immigration controls or the colour of a passport 
- it’s not the EUs fault by default.
Of course it’s not in the UK interest to go along the lines of France and Germany and ensure a level playing field in their country. I mean it’s not like UK industry has ever had an issue with paying the workers derisory amounts (apart from the industrial revolution onwards of course)
Why don’t drivers lobby their MPs to bring back the good old days.
Eg sleeping across a couple of planks of wood, carrying a couple of log books to fiddle the hrs so they can work 28hrs a day.
Sleep in a box with no heating.
Normal folk would call it poverty, but to the real drivers these were the good old days.
The industry’s never gonna change any time soon.
Winseer:
I still think it’s a joke that a Tramper doesn’t get paid all the hours they are in that truck…
:
Ffs mate not again…The old ‘Unpaid security guard’ ■■■■■■■■. 
Do contractors working away from home, some who sleep in caravans just carry their hours straight through? or the co.rep, does he get hourly pay for kipping in his Travel lodge? or even the top end of the food chain, the Co. Directors on jollies with their fit as butcher’s dog secretaries, do they get an increase in salary for slumming it at The Hilton ■■? …Do they ■■■■.
So what is the difference with truckers??
I personally don’t mind kipping in my ‘‘Tin Box’’ ( )
I’d rather have it with my maximized home comforts than stay in some crappy B&B, as long as I get exs/subsistence (granted should be a lot more than it is) I’m content…(‘Happy’’ is stretching it a bit.)
toonsy:
Winseer:
I also think it is hypocritical of the EU not to enforce the UK minimum wage for those drivers that are already spending the vast majority of their working hours on their tramps, in UK laybys, sliproads, under motorway bridges, and anywhere else they can park up without being kicked out of bed - but this time by Plod…It’s not up to the EU. It’s up to the ind8vudual country.
Drive in Germany and you need a declaration that you’re being paid at least the minimum wage for Germany. Same in France now.
Just because the UK doesn’t enforce something - like say immigration controls or the colour of a passport
Of course it’s not in the UK interest to go along the lines of France and Germany and ensure a level playing field in their country. I mean it’s not like UK industry has ever had an issue with paying the workers derisory amounts (apart from the industrial revolution onwards of course)
The EU doesn’t get on the UK’s back when the UK are too lazy to enforce laws that if done - would actually hurt the EU, and help the EU worker.
FFS Britain leaving the EU isn’t about any ill-feeling towards European workers who happen to come to Britain, or reside in Britain for their jobs.
It is about Britain paying billions per year to Brussels - for enforcing stupid socialist and liberal “PC” laws on us that do no one any good - but the Bureaucrats.
Our mainstream politicians must be all on the drip-feed backhander money from Brussels - “Not do get things done that bother them” - and visa-versa.
How easy it would be to Leave the EU, bring in any law we like, or repeal any law we didn’t like - our OWN laws that is… IF we had an establishment that didn’t give a toss about appeasing the EU, ever…
Look how the EU continue to treat other nations still very much in the EU… With utter contempt. Those nations are currently being used as “Cannon Fodder” to keep the UK in, and both UK and EU nation - get punished along the way…
Oh how Macron is hated in France now!
robroy:
Winseer:
I still think it’s a joke that a Tramper doesn’t get paid all the hours they are in that truck…
:Ffs mate not again…The old ‘Unpaid security guard’ ■■■■■■■■.
Do contractors working away from home, some who sleep in caravans just carry their hours straight through? or the co.rep, does he get hourly pay for kipping in his Travel lodge? or even the top end of the food chain, the Co. Directors on jollies with their fit as butcher’s dog secretaries, do they get an increase in salary for slumming it at The Hilton ■■? …Do they [zb].
So what is the difference with truckers??I personally don’t mind kipping in my ‘‘Tin Box’’ (
I’d rather have it with my maximized home comforts than stay in some crappy B&B, as long as I get exs/subsistence (granted should be a lot more than it is) I’m content…(‘Happy’’ is stretching it a bit.)
When you don’t get paid “right through” hours, then guess what? That is where the 56-84 hour working week gets between your ribs like a knife…
Where’s the tramping job where you do 3x15 hour shifts, 9 hours per day in a layby (even unpaid) - and have your full 45 hour working week done and dusted in shifts and only two nights out effectively?
No. It’s what? - 5x10 hours if you’re lucky, maybe 6x9 hours if you’re not. Not many more hours “on paper” - but more than DOUBLE the number of days at work in a week, not being at home, not having any leisure time. And all for an hourly rate that doesn’t even come close to supermarket work, which pays a reasonable hourly rate, and doesn’t deny you your hearth and home every night. 
Guy once told me stupid people become mechanics, really stupid people become drivers 
I should add I have met clever and stupid in both jobs, its just the stupid mechanics get paid more than even the smartest drivers.
Trickydick:
Guy once told me stupid people become mechanics, really stupid people become driversI should add I have met clever and stupid in both jobs, its just the stupid mechanics get paid more than even the smartest drivers.
Not so, I stopped being a mechanic because the drivers were getting paid more than me. About a year ago, I was offered a job in a flagship dealer of a major manufacturer. £26k a year. In London.
Why should these shysters get my experience and wear my tools out, when I can sit in a warm lorry all day, watching the scenery go by.
Drempels:
Trickydick:
Guy once told me stupid people become mechanics, really stupid people become driversI should add I have met clever and stupid in both jobs, its just the stupid mechanics get paid more than even the smartest drivers.
Not so, I stopped being a mechanic because the drivers were getting paid more than me. About a year ago, I was offered a job in a flagship dealer of a major manufacturer. £26k a year. In London.
Why should these shysters get my experience and wear my tools out, when I can sit in a warm lorry all day, watching the scenery go by.
26k is pretty much 2nd or 3rd yr apprentice money!
I dont think spannering on cars has ever paid that well.
Winseer:
The ones that “won’t get out of bed for less than £20ph” - present a bit of a paradox:The top dollar rates come with the lower range vehicles, and visa-versa. So… If it’s good kit you’ve got, suitable for tramping to Vladivostok and all - then you won’t be getting out of that bed - because you’re not being paid to be IN it to start with!
I still think it’s a joke that a Tramper doesn’t get paid all the hours they are in that truck…
I also think it is hypocritical of the EU not to enforce the UK minimum wage for those drivers that are already spending the vast majority of their working hours on their tramps, in UK laybys, sliproads, under motorway bridges, and anywhere else they can park up without being kicked out of bed - but this time by Plod…
My P60 and my truck don’t agree mate 
Drempels:
Not so, I stopped being a mechanic because the drivers were getting paid more than me.
Don’t deny that but I’m betting the drivers were doing a lot more hours for that extra money.
If I’m doing a job for 40hrs a week and getting £26k and a truck driver is earning £32k but doing 60hrs a week he’s not getting paid more than me but merely banging in what would be considered a mental amount of overtime for the majority of the 33 million working people in this country. Put that same driver on the same 40hrs a week I’m doing and he’s on just over £20k.
A lot of drivers say to me “it’s about how much I earn, I don’t think about the hours” and that mentality which is scarily widespread, especially with trampers, is what keeps the hourly rate down to that of a shelf stacker. They see the £600 or so a week going in their bank, they don’t see the fact they have to leave home Monday morning and not get back until Friday night or Saturday morning doing the same hours inbetween as others do in a fortnight as an issue.
Agency are in part to blame there are far too many all fighting for the same contract so they are undercutting each other so keeping wages down more companies using agency ( although some are moving away due to cost )
Yep the wages have gone up but not by much will they go up next year only time will tell
Trickydick:
Drempels:
Trickydick:
Guy once told me stupid people become mechanics, really stupid people become driversI should add I have met clever and stupid in both jobs, its just the stupid mechanics get paid more than even the smartest drivers.
Not so, I stopped being a mechanic because the drivers were getting paid more than me. About a year ago, I was offered a job in a flagship dealer of a major manufacturer. £26k a year. In London.
Why should these shysters get my experience and wear my tools out, when I can sit in a warm lorry all day, watching the scenery go by.
26k is pretty much 2nd or 3rd yr apprentice money!
I dont think spannering on cars has ever paid that well.
That’s why I left the motor trade, started at my first hgv job, and got a 50% pay rise, guy I worked for kept asking me to go back, “you pay me what I’m earning then yes”
“your earning how much!!!”
“Yup, can you match that”
“Er no”
There the conversation ended.
In most instances money is the ultimate decider whether we like it or not. Somehow we have to earn as much as we can to pay the bills, there is no other option and if that means working 80-90 hours a week then so be it.
Winseer:
robroy:
Winseer:
I still think it’s a joke that a Tramper doesn’t get paid all the hours they are in that truck…
:Ffs mate not again…The old ‘Unpaid security guard’ ■■■■■■■■.
Do contractors working away from home, some who sleep in caravans just carry their hours straight through? or the co.rep, does he get hourly pay for kipping in his Travel lodge? or even the top end of the food chain, the Co. Directors on jollies with their fit as butcher’s dog secretaries, do they get an increase in salary for slumming it at The Hilton ■■? …Do they [zb].
So what is the difference with truckers??I personally don’t mind kipping in my ‘‘Tin Box’’ (
I’d rather have it with my maximized home comforts than stay in some crappy B&B, as long as I get exs/subsistence (granted should be a lot more than it is) I’m content…(‘Happy’’ is stretching it a bit.)When you don’t get paid “right through” hours, then guess what? That is where the 56-84 hour working week gets between your ribs like a knife…
Where’s the tramping job where you do 3x15 hour shifts, 9 hours per day in a layby (even unpaid) - and have your full 45 hour working week done and dusted in shifts and only two nights out effectively?
No. It’s what? - 5x10 hours if you’re lucky, maybe 6x9 hours if you’re not. Not many more hours “on paper” - but more than DOUBLE the number of days at work in a week, not being at home, not having any leisure time. And all for an hourly rate that doesn’t even come close to supermarket work, which pays a reasonable hourly rate, and doesn’t deny you your hearth and home every night.
Ok, so now answer my question, (or better still refute it) set out in the second paragraph.
(And to answer yours, I rarely do 15 hour days, even rarer do I only take 9 hours off, and I never resort to lay by parking.
I know much better than you ever will about ‘not being at home’ so consequently I don’t need you to explain the ins and outs of it, as I’m guessing your driving career mostly consists of 100 mile radius runs on agencies which hardly makes you an expert.
I knew exactly what I was taking on when I started tramping all those years ago and being away from home was part of it.
It’s how you approach it and do it that makes the difference, if it had to be the combination of drudge and endurance excercise that some on here treat it as, I would not have lasted more than 6 months.
As for the 45/48 hr working week, pertaining to wtd that you touch on…
Well we all know it is both a nonescence and a non reality, but rather a smokescreen intertwined with poa etc to make it look on the surface that ridiculous hours are not worked by many in the haulage industry.(but is the same or as similar to any other…which it aint.)