Snow driving

[robroy]

Evil8Beezle:

Dipper_Dave:
Concentrate can be tricky stuff especially if its not in a vacum bag and sloshing about all over the shop. The trick is (which im sure everyone realises) is to drive to the load, different loads give different handling characteristics from driving like you stole it to driving miss daisy.

No matter what though on roundabouts always go for the miss daisy option unless empty skel then you can really throw the bugger about.
Snow should never be underestimated as one second you can have traction then the next a ring peice twitching moment akin to a rabbits nose in a carrot factory.

I’m not sure if it was vacuum bagged, as it was in grey plastic cubes which I assume were about 800mm, as they fitted 3 wide on the trailer. I couldn’t feel it sloshing, but certainly knew it was there on the corners and roundabouts, as the whole truck rolled as I changed direction. Hence slow and smooth steering! I’m sure I was doing a Miss Daisy, but when you haven’t got the experience, you have to drive on the side of caution! I’d rather be late than making a call to the office saying the trucks in the ditch, and can you bring some vodka to go with the coke! lol:

Never be embarrassed about setting a speed for youself depending on the nature of a load,… however slow it is.

None of us were born with experience, we all had to learn.
You done right, and exactly as how most of us would.

Glad you seem to have listened to my advice btw(as well as others no doubt) about avoiding being pushed which does lead to tearsrsing and likely disaster.

[evil8beezle]

robroy:
Glad you seem to have listened to my advice btw(as well as others no doubt) about avoiding being pushed which does lead to tearsrsing and likely disaster.

Yes daddy, I love you daddy!

[robroy]

Evil8Beezle:

robroy:
Glad you seem to have listened to my advice btw(as well as others no doubt) about avoiding being pushed which does lead to tearsrsing and likely disaster.

Yes daddy, I love you daddy!

Oh ■■■■! …So you actually KNOW then?

[carl_usher]

newmercman:

Carl Usher:

Carryfast:

Juddian:
Maybe i’m overcautious too, but an artic starting to fold up on you at a decent speed is frightening.

^ This.Whatever the judgement call at the time.It also needs to be remembered that artics,especially euro spec artics, contain some inherent very nasty potential traits in regards to loss of traction or grip at the drive axle and resulting lightning fast unrecoverable jacknifing at the slightest provocation.On that note let’s just say the forces trying to fold the thing up outweigh any superiority in grip levels over the average car and if I was going to be doing much overtaking in slippery conditions then preferably it would be while driving a 4x4 car or a rigid or decent A frame drawbar outfit using a 6 wheeler prime mover,rather than the average euro spec artic.

That will only happen if you’re driving like a nob. Very gentle acceleration, braking and steering inputs combined with keen observation of what’s going on in front, underneath and to the sides of you will keep you just fine driving on snow.

I’m sorry but that is ■■■■■■■■, the conditions can change so quickly, a change in temperature or road surface will make a huge difference to the type of snow under your tyres and you can suddenly turn into a passenger heading straight to the scene of the accident.

Slightly deeper or slushier snow on one side, a big bump in the road, a sudden camber or a gust of wind and you can lose control.

This is the UK driving forum, not Canada. We don’t have the kind of extreme weather here that can be found in Canada so your argument is moot. At the very worst it’s 3" of wet snow and you would have to be a monumentally crap driver if you manage to lose it whilst driving along a motorway at a steady speed with smooth inputs on the controls. Yes you could have someone swerve out in front of you and lose control but that can happen when it’s wet, dry or otherwise and produce the same end results.

However I don’t possess pics of my truck in a snowy garage in an attempt to prove my superiority and Driving God status so I’ll just crack on with what’s works fine for me and you do your thing trundling along in single file at 5mph because you’re too scared of hitting “a big bump” or “sudden camber” and ending up on your roof in a ditch.

[newmercman]

robroy:

newmercman:

Carl Usher:

Carryfast:

Juddian:
Maybe i’m overcautious too, but an artic starting to fold up on you at a decent speed is frightening.

^ This.Whatever the judgement call at the time.It also needs to be remembered that artics,especially euro spec artics, contain some inherent very nasty potential traits in regards to loss of traction or grip at the drive axle and resulting lightning fast unrecoverable jacknifing at the slightest provocation.On that note let’s just say the forces trying to fold the thing up outweigh any superiority in grip levels over the average car and if I was going to be doing much overtaking in slippery conditions then preferably it would be while driving a 4x4 car or a rigid or decent A frame drawbar outfit using a 6 wheeler prime mover,rather than the average euro spec artic.

That will only happen if you’re driving like a nob. Very gentle acceleration, braking and steering inputs combined with keen observation of what’s going on in front, underneath and to the sides of you will keep you just fine driving on snow.

I’m sorry but that is ■■■■■■■■, the conditions can change so quickly, a change in temperature or road surface will make a huge difference to the type of snow under your tyres and you can suddenly turn into a passenger heading straight to the scene of the accident.

Slightly deeper or slushier snow on one side, a big bump in the road, a sudden camber or a gust of wind and you can lose control.

Here’s a couple of pictures from my last couple of trips, trust me I do know what I’m talking about when it comes to snow…
0
1

As I said to robinhood, I would not be in you guy’s league when it came to driving in snow.
I have done most stuff in transport over the years, but still take a back seat, and have a lot of respect when it comes to guys like yourselves that have done stuff that I have not, whatever it may be. So there is no way I would attempt to argue with you on this.

If I could just re.iterate, it was nothing like Arctic blizzard conditions or anything like that, but a bit of wet snow, and/or slush on a wet road surface.

Who knows,… maybe the car drivers were in the right and I was as accused earlier, a bit inconsiderate and blase, but it was an on the spot decision, and given a second chance in an entirely identical situation, I WOULD do the same.

I’m not pointing a finger at you driver, every situation is different, I did 500 miles Friday, it was snowing like an illegitimate child, I was sat on the cruise at 100km/h most of the time, on another day I could be parked up because it’s not worth the risk, or progress is going to be that slow that it isn’t work the hassle and seat clenching moments.

I do pass people that are causing a hold up, I like plenty of room around me so that I don’t get caught up in someone else’s mistake, but only if they are going stupidly slow. Not because I’m in a hurry, but more because others will pass them and again, I don’t want to get caught up in someone else’s mistakes.

You have to weigh up the odds, if there are a bunch of nervous drivers out there, passing is one option, but so is getting off the road for a bit and letting them get out from under your feet.

[newmercman]

Carl Usher:

newmercman:

Carl Usher:

Carryfast:

Juddian:
Maybe i’m overcautious too, but an artic starting to fold up on you at a decent speed is frightening.

^ This.Whatever the judgement call at the time.It also needs to be remembered that artics,especially euro spec artics, contain some inherent very nasty potential traits in regards to loss of traction or grip at the drive axle and resulting lightning fast unrecoverable jacknifing at the slightest provocation.On that note let’s just say the forces trying to fold the thing up outweigh any superiority in grip levels over the average car and if I was going to be doing much overtaking in slippery conditions then preferably it would be while driving a 4x4 car or a rigid or decent A frame drawbar outfit using a 6 wheeler prime mover,rather than the average euro spec artic.

That will only happen if you’re driving like a nob. Very gentle acceleration, braking and steering inputs combined with keen observation of what’s going on in front, underneath and to the sides of you will keep you just fine driving on snow.

I’m sorry but that is ■■■■■■■■, the conditions can change so quickly, a change in temperature or road surface will make a huge difference to the type of snow under your tyres and you can suddenly turn into a passenger heading straight to the scene of the accident.

Slightly deeper or slushier snow on one side, a big bump in the road, a sudden camber or a gust of wind and you can lose control.

This is the UK driving forum, not Canada. We don’t have the kind of extreme weather here that can be found in Canada so your argument is moot. At the very worst it’s 3" of wet snow and you would have to be a monumentally crap driver if you manage to lose it whilst driving along a motorway at a steady speed with smooth inputs on the controls. Yes you could have someone swerve out in front of you and lose control but that can happen when it’s wet, dry or otherwise and produce the same end results.

However I don’t possess pics of my truck in a snowy garage in an attempy to prove my superiority and Driving God status so I’ll just crack on with what’s works fine for me and you do your thing trundling along in single file at 5mph because you’re too scared of hitting “a big bump” or “sudden camber” and ending up on your roof in a ditch.

I apologise, I hadn’t realised that you were a supertrucker, my mistake…

[dolph]

How bad(snowy) are UK winters, can you compare them to other country winter, a continental European one for example. From what I read/hear you have snow in northern Scotland and just for a while, is that true? Do you have black ice in the winter with all this rainfall, during nights when is around 0C?

[carl_usher]

newmercman:
I apologise, I hadn’t realised that you were a supertrucker, my mistake…

It’s you that’s claiming that, not me.

newmercman:
trust me I do know what I’m talking about when it comes to snow…

LOL!

And you’re a hypocrite too. You lambast me for saying to plod on with smooth inputs, good observation all around - including underneath your wheels - and sensible speed, claiming that “that is ■■■■■■■■” because a bump, camber or gust of wind could put you in a ditch, yet in your own post after it you’ve just claimed to have done 500km in snow, at 100km/h and not only that, but with the cruise control on too . Yeah you definitely know what you’re talking about newmercman, don’t ya!

newmercman:
I did 500 miles Friday, it was snowing like an illegitimate child, I was sat on the cruise at 100km/h most of the time

[weeto]

Carryfast:

Juddian:
Maybe i’m overcautious too, but an artic starting to fold up on you at a decent speed is frightening.

^ This.Whatever the judgement call at the time.It also needs to be remembered that artics,especially euro spec artics, contain some inherent very nasty potential traits in regards to loss of traction or grip at the drive axle and resulting lightning fast unrecoverable jacknifing at the slightest provocation.On that note let’s just say the forces trying to fold the thing up outweigh any superiority in grip levels over the average car and if I was going to be doing much overtaking in slippery conditions then preferably it would be while driving a 4x4 car or a rigid or decent A frame drawbar outfit using a 6 wheeler prime mover,rather than the average euro spec artic.

Totally agree, and as i mentioned in a different post, why the fifth wheel needs to be in the right place to impose as much weight as legally possible on the drive axle on a 3 axle unit, even in the wet the fifth wheel in the wrong position can cause so much loss of grip on the most important axle on the whole outfit, grip that could cause a driver serious problem even in the wet.
I was much more confident in a 2 axle unit than a modern 3 axle, especially now when you cant even be trusted to be able to raise the mid lift to give you extra grip when you need it, the most your allowed to do is dump the air in it, but only for a short time.

[juddian]

Dolph:
How bad(snowy) are UK winter, can you compare them to other, a continental Europe for example. From what I read hear you have snow in northern Scotland and just for a while, is that true? Do you have black ice in the winter with all this rainfall, during nights when is around 0C?

Its so bloody unpredictable here Dolph, and cos everyone thinks/hopes it isn’t going to come when it does the whole of the south especially goes to pieces, no lorries are fitted with winter drive axle tyres, nearly all artics are now 6x2 mid lifters which can get stuck on a damp mole hill.
Most company cars come shod on stupid 19" summer tyres so utterly useless in the cold and can’t move in the snow at all, only a very small minority of car owners/drivers have winter tyres fitted so even the cars can’t move and it all turns to bedlam if we get 6" of the white stuff.

We don’t get anything like the amount of snow of central or eastern europe and when we do its wet and cos its salted almost immediately if it refreezes it turns to treacherous black ice very quickly, black ice and summer tyres too big for the car spell big trouble.
Doesn’t help that the driving skill set is low due to the irregularity of the weather, plus this country isn’t like yours, nobody seems to give a toss here if office wallahs and admin don’t come to work cos the weathers bad, though arguably those of us that are actual productive workers are better off if the idiots/managers/admin/pen pushers all stay at home and cry off work the job usually runs better without that lot anyway, be weeks before anyone noticed they were missing anyway. .

[juddian]

weeto:

Carryfast:

Juddian:
Maybe i’m overcautious too, but an artic starting to fold up on you at a decent speed is frightening.

^ This.Whatever the judgement call at the time.It also needs to be remembered that artics,especially euro spec artics, contain some inherent very nasty potential traits in regards to loss of traction or grip at the drive axle and resulting lightning fast unrecoverable jacknifing at the slightest provocation.On that note let’s just say the forces trying to fold the thing up outweigh any superiority in grip levels over the average car and if I was going to be doing much overtaking in slippery conditions then preferably it would be while driving a 4x4 car or a rigid or decent A frame drawbar outfit using a 6 wheeler prime mover,rather than the average euro spec artic.

Totally agree, and as i mentioned in a different post, why the fifth wheel needs to be in the right place to impose as much weight as legally possible on the drive axle on a 3 axle unit, even in the wet the fifth wheel in the wrong position can cause so much loss of grip on the most important axle on the whole outfit, grip that could cause a driver serious problem even in the wet.
I was much more confident in a 2 axle unit than a modern 3 axle, especially now when you cant even be trusted to be able to raise the mid lift to give you extra grip when you need it, the most your allowed to do is dump the air in it, but only for a short time.

Spot on Weeto and CF, one of the many reasons i’m a fan of the boxyshape Axor (manual box), driver has total control of the mid lift regardless of speed or load, with the rest of the electronic modern garbage the mid lift dump/lifter won’t function loaded above 20mph.

[dolph]

Juddian:

Dolph:
How bad(snowy) are UK winter, can you compare them to other, a continental Europe for example. From what I read hear you have snow in northern Scotland and just for a while, is that true? Do you have black ice in the winter with all this rainfall, during nights when is around 0C?

Its so bloody unpredictable here Dolph, and cos everyone thinks/hopes it isn’t going to come when it does the whole of the south especially goes to pieces, no lorries are fitted with winter drive axle tyres, nearly all artics are now 6x2 mid lifters which can get stuck on a damp mole hill.
Most company cars come shod on stupid 19" summer tyres so utterly useless in the cold and can’t move in the snow at all, only a very small minority of car owners/drivers have winter tyres fitted so even the cars can’t move and it all turns to bedlam if we get 6" of the white stuff.

We don’t get anything like the amount of snow of central or eastern europe and when we do its wet and cos its salted almost immediately if it refreezes it turns to treacherous black ice very quickly, black ice and summer tyres too big for the car spell big trouble.
Doesn’t help that the driving skill set is low due to the irregularity of the weather, plus this country isn’t like yours, nobody seems to give a toss here if office wallahs and admin don’t come to work cos the weathers bad, though arguably those of us that are actual productive workers are better off if the idiots/managers/admin/pen pushers all stay at home and cry off work the job usually runs better without that lot anyway, be weeks before anyone noticed they were missing anyway. .

Thanks for the informative reply.
We here suffer from (like everywhere) corrupted politicians+bad management, combine this with 2-3 feet of snow=disaster. Some small town and villages were cut off up to a week because of the snowfall recent years. 2012 January and February were big time bad, up to 3-4m of snow at certain places and 30 below zero.
The only good think is that 99% of the drivers are driving on winter tires.
It seems nice and easy driving in UK.

[evil8beezle]

Dolph - Speaking to some of eastern European cousins at work about winter here compared to their home countries, and while they said it was colder back home, it was a dry cold, where here it’s a wet cold and in their opinion nastier here!
Sorry I can’t expand anymore on that, just relaying what I was told when i asked…

[dolph]

Evil8Beezle:
Dolph - Speaking to some of eastern European cousins at work about winter here compared to their home countries, and while they said it was colder back home, it was a dry cold, where here it’s a wet cold and in their opinion nastier here!
Sorry I can’t expand anymore on that, just relaying what I was told when i asked…

Well probably everyones viewpoint is correct, because people like what they grew up with and live with. On your note, I can relate as well, since Im from the Balkans, I like winters, does i lived in Chicago in US and hated Florida heat and humidity. Actually I don’t like 30 below zero, but I prefer -15C instead of 1-2C.
I have been told in UK you don’t feel cold weather so much,smoother I guess, the air is better, people with asthma breath better etc.

Off topic.
Here is some interesting info and video if you have time to waste , my car doors were frozen that day. All friends with diesels couldn’t start.

novinite.com/articles/136272 … pell+Peaks

youtube.com/watch?v=KN9zi63eezs countryside
youtube.com/watch?v=7c9kFgQm2qk capitol

[evil8beezle]

LOL, I can’t imagine what -30 is like!
I guess the coldest place I’ve been is the Alps skiing in winter, but that was probably only -10 or so. However that wasn’t that bad, and only felt bitter when the wind got up. Then it felt like hell on earth!
But I’ve never driven in anything like the conditions in the video as I’m in the softie southern end of England, where we might get heavy snow one every few years. Yet as said above, everything grinds to a halt as we simply aren’t prepared for it. Everyone complains when that happens, but as it’s such a freak event down here, we can’t expect the councils to have an army of gritters and snow plough’s on stand by, just on the off chance of heavy snow…

[newmercman]

Carl Usher:

newmercman:
I apologise, I hadn’t realised that you were a supertrucker, my mistake…

It’s you that’s claiming that, not me.

newmercman:
trust me I do know what I’m talking about when it comes to snow…

LOL!

And you’re a hypocrite too. You lambast me for saying to plod on with smooth inputs, good observation all around - including underneath your wheels - and sensible speed, claiming that “that is ■■■■■■■■” because a bump, camber or gust of wind could put you in a ditch, yet in your own post after it you’ve just claimed to have done 500km in snow, at 100km/h and not only that, but with the cruise control on too . Yeah you definitely know what you’re talking about newmercman, don’t ya!

newmercman:
I did 500 miles Friday, it was snowing like an illegitimate child, I was sat on the cruise at 100km/h most of the time

I obviously didn’t hit any big bumps, cambers, slushy snow or high winds then did I…

It may well have been snowing, but that doesn’t mean much really, what’s coming out of the sky is not what dictates how you drive, that will be the road surface.

Yes you will be OK if you drive smoothly and alert to the changing conditions, most of the time, but instant changes do not give you a chance to react smoothly, you can be clipping along nice and steady, the next thing the vehicle in front of you is spinning out of control, if you’re just about to pass them then you’re up excrement creek, obviously the same applies if it’s you that starts spinning around in circles.

I have driven in plenty of snow, as I said, so yes I do know what I’m talking about, if that comes across as showing off then maybe your interpretation is somewhat wrong, I’m sharing my experience, that’s all, that’s one way we learn, from other people’s experience.

Many of the people reading this will be driving lorries in snow and ice for the first time, if all they read on here is that it is nothing to worry about as long as you are driving smoothly then there will be a few red faces, at the very least, when they get caught out by any number of things that can go wrong.

[robinhood_1984]

Dolph:
How bad(snowy) are UK winters, can you compare them to other country winter, a continental European one for example. From what I read/hear you have snow in northern Scotland and just for a while, is that true? Do you have black ice in the winter with all this rainfall, during nights when is around 0C?

The UK often feels much colder than it is because of the damp/humid air that can make a windy day at or around 0’c feel terrible, whereas in Canada and the northern US as you well know, which is possibly similar to Bulgaria and inland Europe in general its much drier and you can often walk around outside in lets say -20’c without any real discomfort unless you stand still for too long.

The problem with the UK is that there is absolutely no preparation for actual winter weather. As others have said, no trucks will have winter tyres on, we used to get sent to Germany every year with our basic summer tyres and hoping that we didn’t get caught…and didn’t crash. No cars have winter tyres, people panic over the smallest amount of snow because its so unusual you never get a chance to get used to it. Just like here, when it snows badly for the first time of the winter, even the locals panic and drive slow and this is Canada, but after a while everyone gets used to it and it becomes normal, you don’t get that in the UK because you might only get a few days a year or proper snow fall so each time is a unique event in its own right.

The other thing to understand is how densely populated the UK is, there is constant traffic chaos is many places and huge amounts of traffic just about everywhere else. You get the same situation as Chicago, or Toronto or anywhere else here that gets bad winters, because there are just so many people, there are always going to be enough bad, panicked or inexperienced drivers thrown in to the equation to ■■■■ things up which then results in chaos in general. As you know, you only have to have one car crash, and the other 99 are stuck behind it in the queue.

Winter in New Brunswick can be quite nasty at times, but because there are only about 800,000 people in the whole province, the roads are not busy and even in very bad weather, you can usually make reasonable progress and if its too bad, you just park it up.

[carryfast]

Evil8Beezle:
LOL, I can’t imagine what -30 is like!
I guess the coldest place I’ve been is the Alps skiing in winter, but that was probably only -10 or so. However that wasn’t that bad, and only felt bitter when the wind got up. Then it felt like hell on earth!
But I’ve never driven in anything like the conditions in the video as I’m in the softie southern end of England, where we might get heavy snow one every few years. Yet as said above, everything grinds to a halt as we simply aren’t prepared for it. Everyone complains when that happens, but as it’s such a freak event down here, we can’t expect the councils to have an army of gritters and snow plough’s on stand by, just on the off chance of heavy snow…

There was a time in the 1980’s when silly winter weather wasn’t that unusual here.

weatheronline.co.uk/reports/ … d-snow.htm

That’s a train in Kent in 1987.

2.bp.blogspot.com/_AEKdheDtCHw/S … /F0951.jpg

I remembered that winter because I was doing a regular night trunk from our depot at Feltham to Harrietsham and it was the only run I ever did anywhere in the country in 15 years where the guvnor agreed that it was bad enough to swap the artic for a 16 tonner rigid and leave the rest of the load behind.

[newmercman]

Evil8Beezle:
LOL, I can’t imagine what -30 is like!
I guess the coldest place I’ve been is the Alps skiing in winter, but that was probably only -10 or so. However that wasn’t that bad, and only felt bitter when the wind got up. Then it felt like hell on earth! [emoji38]
But I’ve never driven in anything like the conditions in the video as I’m in the softie southern end of England, where we might get heavy snow one every few years. Yet as said above, everything grinds to a halt as we simply aren’t prepared for it. Everyone complains when that happens, but as it’s such a freak event down here, we can’t expect the councils to have an army of gritters and snow plough’s on stand by, just on the off chance of heavy snow…

Minus 30, or even 40 isn’t so bad, unbelievable as it may sound as all the humidity has gone, obviously it’s cold, cold enough to freeze your snot and taking a deep breath will hurt as it won’t have warmed up much by the time it hits your lungs, but you could walk around the truck in just a t shirt and not be too uncomfortable, as soon as you get inside again you instantly warm up.

When there’s a wind though, now that’s a different story, any exposed skin goes hard in seconds and frostbite comes after a few moments, it is a painful experience that you can’t explain, it has to be experienced to be appreciated. In the correct clothes though it is manageable, but you have to slow right down if you do anything physical as the deep breath thing can get you in trouble pretty quick, a couple of degrees drop in your core temperature and you go into hypothermia.

The good thing about that kind of cold is that ice is no longer slippery as the film of water that sits on top of it is what makes it slippery and that goes at -15c or so, it’s not quite as grippy as a bare road as it’s smooth, unlike a road, but you would be shocked by how much grip is available.

The hard to drive on stuff is the 0c to -10c stuff, that’s what we’re getting here now as it’s unseasonably warm and it’s what you get in Britain most of the time, it’s awful to drive on and you really do have to have your wits about you when driving in it.

[immigrant]

If it goes wrong will no one say “Thanx for trying”