As most on here are probably aware, the HA are upgrading a few motorways to “Smart” Motorways, these differ to the “Managed” motorways that you see on the M62, M42, M6 and a few others. Instead of extending the road and running the hard shoulder during peak times, they have realised that they don’t need to spend anywhere near this amount of money by simply removing the hard shoulder altogether and making that into a permanent lane.
I have used the M25 section that is now a Smart motorway, and it works quite well, the section is monitored by lots of cameras and if a vehicle is stopped, they light up the signs to close the lane.
They are doing this on the M1 between 28 and 31/32 and what I really am struggling to get my head around is the fact that every Friday night when there is a minor shunt or a broken down vehicle, it causes 10 miles of queues through the roadworks, how on earth is that going to be any different to when it is 4 lanes with no hard shoulder?
Yes, I know the matrix signs are not up, but people can not even see a huge flashing arrow on the back of a IPV, so how on earth are they going to see a little sign all the way up there when they only look 3 foot in front of them?
Personally I don’t like the idea of either ! the hard shoulder is and should stay in case of emergencies personally if i broke down in a live lane ! would feel very vulnerable as you said its just a way of moving traffic without the cost of actually improving the road network the word dangerous springs to mind it will end in tears
Its a cheap way of doing things, Its only a matter of time till a mini bus full of kids is wiped out and then we will have much wailing and gnashing of teeth . As ive said before on this subject it isnt the answer , driving low loaders with overwidth plant ect on Im well aware of the fact that its the quart into a pint pot problem that makes any HGV drivers job even harder, using the M42 round Brum area when its busy there aint a lot of room get it wrong you can soon end up in trouble, and who gets the blame not the designers or
cheapskate goverments thats a fact.
Thing is if there’s a hard shoulder and your driving and something appears wrong you can roll into the hard shoulder but with no hard shoulder people are more likely to carry on till you find a place to stop that will eventually cause an accident without any doubt
Running down the 42,the other night,there was a van broke down in lane 1.no warnings displayed until after the incident.
in theory…there is no reason why these could’nt be a cost effective way to ease congestion.
However…the systems in place to control it,need to be bang on.
this is where it falls down.
norfolk:
Its a cheap way of doing things, Its only a matter of time till a mini bus full of kids is wiped out and then we will have much wailing and gnashing of teeth .
Well given its not happened on the M42 in the 8 years that it has been on the go its not like it is going to be a regular occurrence. In fact can you recall one single incident when there’s a been a serious shunt on the M42 managed section because it is a smart motorway?
bjd:
Thing is if there’s a hard shoulder and your driving and something appears wrong you can roll into the hard shoulder but with no hard shoulder people are more likely to carry on till you find a place to stop that will eventually cause an accident without any doubt
norfolk:
Its a cheap way of doing things, Its only a matter of time till a mini bus full of kids is wiped out and then we will have much wailing and gnashing of teeth .
Well given its not happened on the M42 in the 8 years that it has been on the go its not like it is going to be a regular occurrence. In fact can you recall one single incident when there’s a been a serious shunt on the M42 managed section because it is a smart motorway?
The M42 sections are only running hard shoulder in peak times, the Smart Motorway scheme involves making the hard shoulder a thing of the past and will have 4 live lanes at all times except when signs indicate otherwise (Red X on gantry)
I have only used the M25 section at night and you can see cameras every quarter of a mile or so (Infa Red spotlights attached to them), how effective the monitoring is? I couldn’t say. I passed through when the HATO’s and recovery vehicle was already in attendance to the broken down vehicle, obviously the HA had to set a 40mph limit for 3 miles before the incident and lane 1 closed indicated on the overhead signs.
The problem also stems from drivers i was on the 25 last week,the red x was on in the near side lane round by the a10 and yet people where still driving in the lane completely ignoring the warning ,why ? because they think as they cant see the hazard it might not be there the warnings might be wrong maybe the HA forgot to turn well i think that peoples thought train so i think we need the hard shoulder
A motorway with no hard shoulder is just the same as a major trunk road with no hard shoulder. If a broken down vehicle gets struck, then is it not down to drivers not paying attention, not reading the road ahead, travelling too close to the vehicle in front. From my point of view, it is not as safe as a hard shoulder, but then is the hard shoulder that safe?? Look at the M62 crash earlier this week. It is a cheap way of creating more lanes but it is here to stay, despite what any of us think.
You don’t need smart motorways, you need smarter drivers & matrix sign operators. The sign operators would have to be a lot quicker at getting relevant information up, and down, something they aren’t at the moment. Drivers do tend to ignore the overhead signs regardless of what’s going on, probably due to years of following signs about incidents that don’t exist anymore. I have recently started hearing info on the radio now telling drivers what a red arrow means on the overhead signs!
^^^^ beat me to it. There’s no problems with smart motorways it’s the not so smart users that cause the problems. I’ve long advocated a nationwide advertising campaign (anyone remember Reginald Molehusband?) to educate people about how to use these. We’ve all been undertaken by traffic using the h/s when no matrixs’ are lit up “because it was ok yesterday”. That’s the real problem we need to tackle.
I’ve been thinking about this a bit recently as they are working on some near me, and I have 2 major problems with them. First is as said above, breaking down in a live lane would scare the hell out of me, and sadly vehicles are not well trained enough to break down where the layby is.
Secondly, the other purpose of the H/S is to allow emergency services to get to an incident, so whats going to happen when a crash happens, all 4 lanes block solid and then the Fire and police can’t get through as everything is bumper to bumper?
I have thought for years that motorways should be done away with why waste space on a hard shoulder,there are lots of duel carrage roads with no hard shoulder we do 50 on them so whats another 6 mph for a m,way.Small parking point along the mway would be ok just treat it like other busy roads,it would stop this fear of ho god I am going onto the mway.
I,ve pointed out before in these discussions, next time the hard shoulder is running watch a doubledeck trailor pass under a bridge on the hard shoulder see if you dont cringe, with regard to there having never been an accident as a result of the hard shoulder being “live” I hope i never have to say " I told you so ". The hard shoulder is a shi… place to be at the best of times I know Ive delivered enough machines into roadworks with moters passing at 40/50 mph AND had professional drivers smash mirrors on the machines Ive been delivering. Or if you want up to 5yrs ago you could have spoke to a mate of mine put in a wheel chair for the last 10 years of his life when the waggon he was in was hit up the arse when he was broken down on the hard shoulder. So as far as Im concerned keep a lane for what it was made for IN CASE OF EMERGENCY . In the time it takes to spot and alter a matrix sign it can all be over its a cheap way of what they refer to upgrading a motorway it may be “SMART” but a lot of folk who drive on it arnt.
