Smart motorways (again).

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

Dr Damon:
Some need to get it through their thick skulls not everyone is in a hurry. Driving at 50 - 60 mph in normal conditions is quite acceptable in a car on a motorway (in the inside lane)

But it isn’t is it.
If everybody on the M.way adhered to the limit of 70 and the average speed was 60ish, yeh maybe so.
However, in Realworldland, the majority do not stick to limit 70, I would reckon most cars are doing 80 to 90 at a guess, so if some twonk is pootling around at 50 in his Rover 75, and then put into the equation that most trucks are on the limiter (and some beyond) it’s an ingredient for a recipe for disaster.

Not saying it’s right OR wrong, I’m saying it’s the way it is. :bulb:

62

Captain Caveman 76:

Dr Damon:

Captain Caveman 76:

Dr Damon:
Some need to get it through their thick skulls not everyone is in a hurry. Driving at 50 - 60 mph in normal conditions is quite acceptable in a car on a motorway (in the inside lane)

The thing is, my lorry is limited to 52mph. I often catch up to cars in lane 1 doing less than this, so I pull into lane 2 to pass them. Assuming they don’t speed up when they realise a lorry is overtaking them, it’ll take time for me to pass them. You now have two lanes of slow moving traffic in a high speed environment.

Unless there’s a reason, you shouldn’t be going slow enough on a motorway for a lorry to overtake you. If you’re not confident on a motorway, you shouldn’t be on one.

That is complete and utter rubbish. As I said any car driver is quite entitled to driver at 50 to 60 mph in the inside lane.

Any traffic Officer will agree they are doing nothing wrong apart from it seems annoying a few impatient truck drivers who seem to think everyone should drive at a speed which suits them. :unamused:

Perhaps you should explain that to the traffic officers who pulled someone over on th a63 for doin 40mph.

But in that case (the one recently reported in the press, at any rate) the driver concerned was doing 40mph in the righthand lane - with a few forays across the lane markings into the lefthand lane, plus the occasional application of brakes just to add to the mix.

63

robroy:

Dr Damon:
Some need to get it through their thick skulls not everyone is in a hurry. Driving at 50 - 60 mph in normal conditions is quite acceptable in a car on a motorway (in the inside lane)

But it isn’t is it.
If everybody on the M.way adhered to the limit of 70 and the average speed was 60ish, yeh maybe so.
However, in Realworldland, the majority do not stick to limit 70, I would reckon most cars are doing 80 to 90 at a guess, so if some twonk is pootling around at 50 in his Rover 75, and then put into the equation that most trucks are on the limiter (and some beyond) it’s an ingredient for a recipe for disaster.

Not saying it’s right OR wrong, I’m saying it’s the way it is. :bulb:

Or a young lady/lad recently passed her test going solo on the motorway first time?

“The way it is” is we arent all perfect all the time, that we control the speed of ONE vehicle: our own. If anyone cant adapt their driving to the fact, in RealWorldLand, that others choose different speeds they shouldnt be on the road. I dont tell anyone to drive differently. Why do some feel it`s OK for them to tell others how to behave? I may have opinions about the speed of others, too slow, too fast, whatever, but I can manage to adapt to their chosen speed.

Youre right that some people dont conform to what most of we professionals consider to be good standards. But thats "the way it is" too. As pros its for us to adapt, not point fingers and blame others.

64

robroy:

Dr Damon:
Some need to get it through their thick skulls not everyone is in a hurry. Driving at 50 - 60 mph in normal conditions is quite acceptable in a car on a motorway (in the inside lane)

But it isn’t is it.
If everybody on the M.way adhered to the limit of 70 and the average speed was 60ish, yeh maybe so.
However, in Realworldland, the majority do not stick to limit 70, I would reckon most cars are doing 80 to 90 at a guess, so if some twonk is pootling around at 50 in his Rover 75, and then put into the equation that most trucks are on the limiter (and some beyond) it’s an ingredient for a recipe for disaster.

Not saying it’s right OR wrong, I’m saying it’s the way it is. :bulb:

I know exactly what it is like robroy as I am up and down the country most weeks but the point I am trying to make is as you probably realise is that any car driver is completely allowed and legal to do 50 to 60 mph in the inside lane.Maybe it is a recipe for disaster but who is probably going to cause the disaster?
Yes I know it is not ideal from a truck drivers point of view but some need to wake up out of their selfish little worlds and realise the world does not revolve round them.
Unfortunately a lot cannot control their right foot these days.

Now I notice nobody has come back to me about pre speed limiter days? I think like me you remember them well. Correct me if I am wrong but I don’t remember any truck driver having a problem with cars doing 50 to 60 then although I know a lot has changed since then including attitudes!(and not for the better) Some really stink if you read back a bit.

65

Franglais:

robroy:

Dr Damon:
Some need to get it through their thick skulls not everyone is in a hurry. Driving at 50 - 60 mph in normal conditions is quite acceptable in a car on a motorway (in the inside lane)

But it isn’t is it.
If everybody on the M.way adhered to the limit of 70 and the average speed was 60ish, yeh maybe so.
However, in Realworldland, the majority do not stick to limit 70, I would reckon most cars are doing 80 to 90 at a guess, so if some twonk is pootling around at 50 in his Rover 75, and then put into the equation that most trucks are on the limiter (and some beyond) it’s an ingredient for a recipe for disaster.

Not saying it’s right OR wrong, I’m saying it’s the way it is. :bulb:

Or a young lady/lad recently passed her test going solo on the motorway first time?

“The way it is” is we arent all perfect all the time, that we control the speed of ONE vehicle: our own. If anyone cant adapt their driving to the fact, in RealWorldLand, that others choose different speeds they shouldnt be on the road. I dont tell anyone to drive differently. Why do some feel it`s OK for them to tell others how to behave? I may have opinions about the speed of others, too slow, too fast, whatever, but I can manage to adapt to their chosen speed.

Youre right that some people dont conform to what most of we professionals consider to be good standards. But thats "the way it is" too. As pros its for us to adapt, not point fingers and blame others.

Well said Franglais especially your last sentence.

66

Franglais:

robroy:

Dr Damon:
Some need to get it through their thick skulls not everyone is in a hurry. Driving at 50 - 60 mph in normal conditions is quite acceptable in a car on a motorway (in the inside lane)

But it isn’t is it.
If everybody on the M.way adhered to the limit of 70 and the average speed was 60ish, yeh maybe so.
However, in Realworldland, the majority do not stick to limit 70, I would reckon most cars are doing 80 to 90 at a guess, so if some twonk is pootling around at 50 in his Rover 75, and then put into the equation that most trucks are on the limiter (and some beyond) it’s an ingredient for a recipe for disaster.

Not saying it’s right OR wrong, I’m saying it’s the way it is. :bulb:

Or a young lady/lad recently passed her test going solo on the motorway first time?

“The way it is” is we arent all perfect all the time, that we control the speed of ONE vehicle: our own. If anyone cant adapt their driving to the fact, in RealWorldLand, that others choose different speeds they shouldnt be on the road. I dont tell anyone to drive differently. Why do some feel it`s OK for them to tell others how to behave? I may have opinions about the speed of others, too slow, too fast, whatever, but I can manage to adapt to their chosen speed.

Youre right that some people dont conform to what most of we professionals consider to be good standards. But thats "the way it is" too. As pros its for us to adapt, not point fingers and blame others.

You’re addressing my post as if it is me condoning all this kind of stuff, as the guy who had the ruck with Dr D seemed to be.
I aint,… I’m merely pointing out the reality of how things actually are on the motorway.

I fully understand there are different scenarios of how and why there are slow moving cars,.I was just saying in the present state of play today, on a Mway, it’s a dangerous practice

How many times have you been travelling blissfully and SAFELY in lane 1 on the limiter then suddenly you get an ‘‘Oh ■■■■ hell’’ moment, when the car in front suddenlly appears to be too close too soon, anybody who says they have not experienced that is a liar, it happens.
Nobody is humanly capable of a full 100% concentration rate for the entire duration to the last second of their 9 hours driving.
It doesn’t matter how professional and adaptable you are, a slow moving car is a potential danger…end of.

I did say ‘I’m not saying it’s right or wrong’’ on my last post.
Don’t shoot the messenger mate !

67

We drive like the Yanks now. 3 or 4 lanes width of homogenised tin boxes travelling at about 55…

68

Nothing more to say on the subject robroy. I did not think you were the type to ignore someone. I responded to your post but there we go.
Maybe you have been driving lorries too long and fallen into the trap like some others blaming everyone but yourself. Some drivers need to get things in perspective and forget about what suits lorry drivers and start thinking about what suits others.

69

A front offside puncture at 90kms instantly pulled me off the motorway into the scenery coming out of bilbao taught me a lesson for life 80 to 85kms you can accelerate with a better chance of keeping the truck on the road my view now is the load gets there when it gets there without stressing.

70

Dr Damon:
Nothing more to say on the subject robroy. I did not think you were the type to ignore someone. I responded to your post but there we go.
Maybe you have been driving lorries too long and fallen into the trap like some others blaming everyone but yourself. Some drivers need to get things in perspective and forget about what suits lorry drivers and start thinking about what suits others.

Who am I blaming exactly,.and what am I blaming whoever they are, for?
I am merely pointing out what happens in reality.

You say it is safe for a car to sit at 50 on a m.way, and yeh, so it should be ideally, but facts are facts…it aint. :bulb:
As for blaming everyone but myself…(again when did I do that?)
I even admitted that I have found myself in moments of concentration lapse,.as everybody else has, and it just takes one of those lapses to run up the arse of a slow moving car.
Of course I consider other road users, as my safety record will verify, but ■■■■ happens.
I fully understand the limit/target thing, but it’s an irrefutable fact that a car is far safer running with the speed of the flow of traffic, (and certainly running faster than the flow of trucks) than sitting at 50mph on a M.way.

I was not ignoring you btw, I felt I had made my point clearly already, so could add nothing to it.

71

Dr Damon:
Nothing more to say on the subject robroy. I did not think you were the type to ignore someone. I responded to your post but there we go.
Maybe you have been driving lorries too long and fallen into the trap like some others blaming everyone but yourself. Some drivers need to get things in perspective and forget about what suits lorry drivers and start thinking about what suits others.

You’re a total balloon knot, aren’t you?

A.

72

dri-diddly-iver:

ezydriver:

dri-diddly-iver:
The motorway isn’t for sight seeing

If you want to think that, you think that.

No way is a motorway a scenic route - ffs pull off and look

Well what are they then? They didn’t just randomly build them!!! They built them along scenic parts of the country for a reason!!

Often times I’ve been driving with my wife, and she’s grabbed at my arm and said “oh look, sheep”, and I’ve looked, and they’ve looked so tranquil. Then a couple of minutes later I’ll nudge her and say “look at those beautiful hills over there”, and I’ve pointed into the distance, and she smiles, and chirps “ooh yes, lovely”.

Driving at 50, everybody is overtaking me, so I don’t have to worry so much about the road ahead.

73

ezydriver:
Driving at 50, everybody is overtaking me, so I don’t have to worry so much about the road ahead, the road behind will be the potential problem when I eventually get rammed up the arse by somebody who sees me too late…

I realise you’re on a wind up bud, but I just thought I’d complete your sentence for you anyway. :wink:

74

robroy:

Dr Damon:
Nothing more to say on the subject robroy. I did not think you were the type to ignore someone. I responded to your post but there we go.
Maybe you have been driving lorries too long and fallen into the trap like some others blaming everyone but yourself. Some drivers need to get things in perspective and forget about what suits lorry drivers and start thinking about what suits others.

Who am I blaming exactly,.and what am I blaming whoever they are, for?
I am merely pointing out what happens in reality.

You say it is safe for a car to sit at 50 on a m.way, and yeh, so it should be ideally, but facts are facts…it aint. :bulb:
As for blaming everyone but myself…(again when did I do that?)
I even admitted that I have found myself in moments of concentration lapse,.as everybody else has, and it just takes one of those lapses to run up the arse of a slow moving car.
Of course I consider other road users, as my safety record will verify, but [zb] happens.
I fully understand the limit/target thing, but it’s an irrefutable fact that a car is far safer running with the speed of the flow of traffic, (and certainly running faster than the flow of trucks) than sitting at 50mph on a M.way.

I was not ignoring you btw, I felt I had made my point clearly already, so could add nothing to it.

Ok I totally understand what you are saying and I agree but what I am saying is quite correct as well. Is it not?

I and others (including highly trained police drivers) say a car should be able to sit at between 50 and 60 mph on the inside lane of a motorway.(for whatever reason they choose)

You agree but say it is not safe and I agree with you it probably is not.

I get the impression you think it is not safe because they are likely to get a big lorry ploughing into the back of them? I doubt the cars doing 80 to 90 in the outside lane will plough into them.(probably just themselves)

So if that happened it would be the lorry drivers fault and not the fault of the car because the car driver is doing nothing wrong. I am afraid some of these drivers do not see the dangers unfortunately then maybe they would speed up.

The problem now a days is a lot of drivers, cars, lorries and coaches travel too close and too fast a lot of the time and when a situation arises there is not enough time to react.(hence all the big pile ups)
As you have agreed many times driving standards are appalling and attitudes have changed for the worse.
So I reiterate a car doing 50 to 60 in the inside lane is quite within his or her right and should not be intimidated by any big angry trucker who thinks he knows better.

Would love to hear Rog’s view on this matter?

75

I’ll tell you what is safe; safe is cars using their speed advantage to quickly and efficiently overtake lorries. What is not safe is reducing this speed differential to 1 or 2 mph. Overtaking another lorry travelling 1 or 2 mph is not a problem as you know with almost complete surety how he/she is going to react. Do the same with overtaking a car and unless they are travelling on their cruise control then subconsciously they’ll increase their speed imperceptibly forcing one of two things; either you sit out there causing a rolling road block for mile after mile, or you back off, slot back in behind them only for them to ease off the gas once more.

To sum up; in an ideal world cars should be able to safely travel on busy roads at under the speed lorries travel at, but the harsh reality is that this isn’t 1950’s postwar Britain with gentle drives to the countryside, like it or not we live in a fast paced society where people have places to be and deadlines to meet.

On a personal note I’d be mortified to be driving my car on a free flowing m/way or d/c and see a lorry catching me.

76

Dr Damon:

robroy:

Dr Damon:
Nothing more to say on the subject robroy. I did not think you were the type to ignore someone. I responded to your post but there we go.
Maybe you have been driving lorries too long and fallen into the trap like some others blaming everyone but yourself. Some drivers need to get things in perspective and forget about what suits lorry drivers and start thinking about what suits others.

Who am I blaming exactly,.and what am I blaming whoever they are, for?
I am merely pointing out what happens in reality.

You say it is safe for a car to sit at 50 on a m.way, and yeh, so it should be ideally, but facts are facts…it aint. :bulb:
As for blaming everyone but myself…(again when did I do that?)
I even admitted that I have found myself in moments of concentration lapse,.as everybody else has, and it just takes one of those lapses to run up the arse of a slow moving car.
Of course I consider other road users, as my safety record will verify, but [zb] happens.
I fully understand the limit/target thing, but it’s an irrefutable fact that a car is far safer running with the speed of the flow of traffic, (and certainly running faster than the flow of trucks) than sitting at 50mph on a M.way.

I was not ignoring you btw, I felt I had made my point clearly already, so could add nothing to it.

Ok I totally understand what you are saying and I agree but what I am saying is quite correct as well. Is it not?

I and others (including highly trained police drivers) say a car should be able to sit at between 50 and 60 mph on the inside lane of a motorway.(for whatever reason they choose)

You agree but say it is not safe and I agree with you it probably is not.

I get the impression you think it is not safe because they are likely to get a big lorry ploughing into the back of them? I doubt the cars doing 80 to 90 in the outside lane will plough into them.(probably just themselves)

So if that happened it would be the lorry drivers fault and not the fault of the car because the car driver is doing nothing wrong. I am afraid some of these drivers do not see the dangers unfortunately then maybe they would speed up.

The problem now a days is a lot of drivers, cars, lorries and coaches travel too close and too fast a lot of the time and when a situation arises there is not enough time to react.(hence all the big pile ups)
As you have agreed many times driving standards are appalling and attitudes have changed for the worse.
So I reiterate a car doing 50 to 60 in the inside lane is quite within his or her right and should not be intimidated by any big angry trucker who thinks he knows better.

For some reason you sound as if you are arguing with me, but at the same time agreeing with me. :open_mouth:
I also agree with you, but I’m just being a realist here…so where are we going with this exactly?

It aint much compensation to the guy who was sat at 50, and then found himself being cut out of a car with serious injuries that ‘‘He was in the right’’ or that Traffic Police along with Tom, ■■■■ and Harry agreed with him though… is it?

It’s like the guy who hogs lane 3 at 70, with a stream of cars behind him, sitting safe in his perceived knowledge he is also ‘‘In the right’’ by sticking to the speed limit, what’s your view on that then?

77

‘Smart motorways’…

Perhaps we should address them correctly.

‘Motorways that we couldn’t be bothered to widen properly or put in proper junctions and then claim we’ve upgraded Britains motorway network with the added payroll bonus for the government of all those speed traps’

But that’s not very catchy is it.

78

the maoster:
I’ll tell you what is safe; safe is cars using their speed advantage to quickly and efficiently overtake lorries. What is not safe is reducing this speed differential to 1 or 2 mph. Overtaking another lorry travelling 1 or 2 mph is not a problem as you know with almost complete surety how he/she is going to react. Do the same with overtaking a car and unless they are travelling on their cruise control then subconsciously they’ll increase their speed imperceptibly forcing one of two things; either you sit out there causing a rolling road block for mile after mile, or you back off, slot back in behind them only for them to ease off the gas once more.

To sum up; in an ideal world cars should be able to safely travel on busy roads at under the speed lorries travel at, but the harsh reality is that this isn’t 1950’s postwar Britain with gentle drives to the countryside, like it or not we live in a fast paced society where people have places to be and deadlines to meet.

On a personal note I’d be mortified to be driving my car on a free flowing m/way or d/c and see a lorry catching me.

I totally agree maoster about speed advantage but in reality a lot of these car drivers have just passed the basic car test. They do not know any better and surely it is our duty as professional drivers to protect them instead of being aggressive and intimidating them on the road. I know the likes of you and I do not drive like that but day in day out I, as I am sure you do see some horrendous aggression from some of our fellow drivers.

I think in reality a lot of drivers, car and lorry need to be re trained on safety and make them realise how easy things can go wrong. Either that or do the autonomy thing.It looks like the latter to me. :smiley:

79

Autonomy! :smiley: :smiley: You and I are never going to agree on that one my friend. What we do agree on is bully boy tactics, there is no place on our roads for it. I also agree about nervous or inexperienced drivers driving too. My thinking is this though, any person driving on our roads is by extension at least 17 years old, that’s at least 17 years of developing and honing their self preservation instincts, so surely every instinct should be screaming at them that being the meat in an 88 tonne sandwich isn’t the place to be and by simply driving 5 mph faster they would remove themselves from that danger.

80

For some reason you sound as if you are arguing with me, but at the same time agreeing with me. :open_mouth:
I also agree with you, but I’m just being a realist here…so where are we going with this exactly?
It aint much compensation to the guy who was sat at 50, and then found himself being cut out of a car with serious injuries that ‘‘He was in the right’’ or that Traffic Police along with Tom, ■■■■ and Harry agreed with him though… is it?
It’s like the guy who hogs lane 3 at 70, with a stream of cars behind him, sitting safe in his perceived knowledge he is also ‘‘In the right’’ by sticking to the speed limit, what’s your view on that then?

Yes I suppose it does maybe sound like that but in reality I think you like maoster know the score very well. I do agree with you but as I say is it not our duty to protect these vulnerable drivers rather than be aggressive. I know you will agree with that but I just despise the ones that give them a hard time. It is totally wrong.

Re any car sitting in the outside lane at 70 mph. It is very bad driving and is classed as lane hogging. But just as bad are all the LGVs elephant racing.
We had none of this crap years ago, did we?