Ok carryfast, I’m going to type this slowly so you can read it properly. Go back & read the first three lines written in this thread, you will see he isn’t calling for the return of corporal punishment.
I did go to tough schools in Newcastle, you got that bit correct. I haven’t called for, or agreed with a return to corporal punishment, or a regime of the type you describe. As I stated I went to plenty schools of varying types, possibly more than most on this forum, but nowhere, NOWHERE in this or any other country did I see or experience the type of system you describe. I got into plenty trouble & got dealt with by teachers appropriately. Me being 6 foot at aged 13 didn’t seem to bother them too much. I just find it hard to believe that nothing would be said by parents in those days, or other teachers for that matter.
I have no solutions, my eldest is a married woman aged 36 with three of her own & I’m still learning, but I do know that it all starts at home.
Slackbladder:
Ok carryfast, I’m going to type this slowly so you can read it properly. Go back & read the first three lines written in this thread, you will see he isn’t calling for the return of corporal punishment.
I did go to tough schools in Newcastle, you got that bit correct. I haven’t called for, or agreed with a return to corporal punishment, or a regime of the type you describe. As I stated I went to plenty schools of varying types, possibly more than most on this forum, but nowhere, NOWHERE in this or any other country did I see or experience the type of system you describe. I got into plenty trouble & got dealt with by teachers appropriately. Me being 6 foot at aged 13 didn’t seem to bother them too much. I just find it hard to believe that nothing would be said by parents in those days, or other teachers for that matter.
I have no solutions, my eldest is a married woman aged 36 with three of her own & I’m still learning, but I do know that it all starts at home.
I think it’s you who needs to read the start of the topic again in which the OP states clearly that corporal punishment in schools was an effective deterrent with the obvious inference being that it should be brought back. 
I actually said that you obviously ‘think’ that you went to some so called ‘tough’ schools in Newcastle but then you’ve also stated that you can’t understand nor have experienced the type of regime which I’ve described.Therefore no you don’t know the meaning of a ‘tough’ school.The fact that you might have been 6 foot at 13 means absolutely nothing either when it’s the motivation which counts in terms of what’s tough or not.In your case it’s obvious that,as I’ve said,if the teachers weren’t scared of you more than you were scared of them and assuming you never hit the zb’s back a lot worse than they hit you and the teachers didn’t also know that,to the point of just victimising and fitting up the ones who weren’t that ‘tough’,then that doesn’t make either you or your so called ‘tough’ schools ‘tough’ in the way I know the meaning of the word.But then you need to remember that I’m talking about in and around London at the time not zb Newcastle and in that regard not much has changed in those places where such regimes can still take place.
independent.co.uk/news/crime … 88635.html
theguardian.com/society/2013 … youth-jail
As for it all ‘starting in the home’ or it being about parents’ that’s bs too.If you’d have been brought up in a really ‘tough’ school you’d know that really evil kids are born evil and nothing short of the death penalty will make the slightest difference to that and certainly not hitting the zb’s with a stick.Whereas being hit with a stick or whatever and being subject to the inevitable corrupt regime which applies wherever those really evil zb’s happen to be certainly does alienate and hurt those who are innocent and not born really evil. 
My school was harder then the one up the road, fact 
.
Carryfast, now your being silly again. The two examples you posted are from a young offenders institute, prisons for young offenders, they are not schools. We were talking about schools, that’s the things that all children go to, not institutions where you are sent for quite serious breaches of the law, and in most cases multiple breaches. You don’t believe it’s starts at home, that’s fine, I don’t believe children are born hating, as Mandela said, they have to learn how to hate, that starts in the home. I don’t believe children are born evil, that’s just crap.
As for the rest it’s pointless getting into a urinating contest about which location is tougher than the other, but I know that won’t stop you. Besides everyone knows its Newcastle.
Slackbladder:
Carryfast, now your being silly again. The two examples you posted are from a young offenders institute, prisons for young offenders, they are not schools. We were talking about schools, that’s the things that all children go to, not institutions where you are sent for quite serious breaches of the law, and in most cases multiple breaches. You don’t believe it’s starts at home, that’s fine, I don’t believe children are born hating, as Mandela said, they have to learn how to hate, that starts in the home. I don’t believe children are born evil, that’s just crap.
As for the rest it’s pointless getting into a urinating contest about which location is tougher than the other, but I know that won’t stop you. Besides everyone knows its Newcastle.
As I’ve said if you went to a school that wasn’t subject to ( very ) similar ‘issues’ as those which have historically applied in that example of an ‘offenders institution’ then you never went to a ‘tough’ school and you don’t have the experience to understand those issues.
As for where people are sent for ‘serious breaches’ of the law you obviously don’t see the difference between and problem with an ethnic foreigner who’s got 3 months for stealing razor blades being put in a cell with a violent psycopathic racist with inevitable results.
No I didn’t go to a school with similar issues to a young offenders institute, I don’t think anyone did. If you’re saying the school you went to was anything like the place mentioned in the piece then I would have to say you were exaggerating in the extreme.
As for putting a thief in with a violent racist well that’s simple, don’t steal. I wonder where he learned that, or where the racist learned to hate.
As a matter of interest how do you think these people should be dealt with? It’s obvious you don’t want them touched by their parents, or anyone else, so come on enlighten us.
Slackbladder:
No I didn’t go to a school with similar issues to a young offenders institute, I don’t think anyone did. If you’re saying the school you went to was anything like the place mentioned in the piece then I would have to say you were exaggerating in the extreme.
As for putting a thief in with a violent racist well that’s simple, don’t steal. I wonder where he learned that, or where the racist learned to hate.
As a matter of interest how do you think these people should be dealt with? It’s obvious you don’t want them touched by their parents, or anyone else, so come on enlighten us.
The inconvenient fact for your argument is that I certainly did go to a school with ‘similar’ ‘issues’ to that example the key word being ‘similar’ not same.IE no one suffered any serious life threatening injuries maybe more by luck than judgement.
However,as I’ve said,in most other respects similar types of ‘issues’ applied,in which the idea of ‘discipline’ got took to,as I’ve said,( often corrupt ) extremes by the teachers,in imposing a regime of disproportionate and unnecessary corporal punishment on those who didn’t need it.All based on some bs notion by those with your views that the really nasty minority could have so called ‘discipline’ beaten into them.When it was obvious to all concerned that they can’t.Which is why in general they were left alone and the innocent had to suffer instead.
As I’ve said the only way that you’ll deal with those really nasty zb’s is to hang them at worse or lock them away from society at best but in all cases hitting them with a stick won’t work it’ll just make matters worse.However it’s obvious that,like all the other raving so called ‘right wingers’,and those sadistic teachers etc,you’ve got a different agenda.In which you seem to think that it’s ok to put someone who’s been convicted of petite theft in the same cell and prison as a violent psycopath,on the basis that you think that’s a reasonable and proportionate response.In that regard it’s no surprise that you also seem to agree with the OP that it’s ok to allow teachers the freedom to effectively carry out what is assault on kids for nothing more than the bs ‘offence’ of so called ‘insubordination’.
As for where the petite thief got the motivation for his ‘crime’ who knows.However as I’ve said in the case of the murderous psychopath who killed him he was born that way he didn’t ‘learn’ to be one.Which just leaves the question of the motivation of anyone who’d want to put the former in the same prison,let alone cell,as the latter.
robroy:
It’s been on the news today that the lefty pc mob are trying to make smacking your kids illegal.
When I say smacking, I don’t mean beating up your kids,… that is child abuse and is quite rightly and unarguably illegal, end of.
I have 4 kids between 28 and 17, they have all had a swift slap on the leg or arse in the past, but only as a last resort when they deserved it, it has not done them any harm and they have all grown up knowing right from wrong, and with respect as we are all the best of friends together, so I must have been doing something right.
I am also old enough to remember getting the cane at school, it was an effective deterrent that worked, just compare the level of discipline in schools today compared to then, ok you got the odd sadist teacher but as I say it was an effective deterrent.
A lot of kids today are already out of control with no manners or respect, this is due to ■■■■ poor parenting skills by some deadlegs that should not be in charge of a hamster, let alone a child. so I reckon if this goes ahead it will only get worse.
What are your thoughts?
agreed with you rob. my mates 2yr old daughter runs rings round him and his OH and they dont do ■■■■ to nip it in the bud. no discipline whatsoever and shes their little darling. makes me sick watching them pull their hair out pandering to her every demand and i have to get up and leave before i say something i shouldnt. she needs a damned good hiding imho but doubt it will ever happen and she’ll just turn into just another feral teenager and chav scum later in life.
truckbling:
25 years of not having corporal punishment should be evidence enough as to why it should return. It has been proven that the tree hugging soft soaping approach has not worked when it comes down to young offenders and criminals so why not return to a system that at least taught some bloody manners and made you think twice before telling a teacher to eff off or thinking about assaulting them.!
well said.
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robroy:
It’s been on the news today that the lefty pc mob are trying to make smacking your kids illegal.
When I say smacking, I don’t mean beating up your kids,… that is child abuse and is quite rightly and unarguably illegal, end of.
I have 4 kids between 28 and 17, they have all had a swift slap on the leg or arse in the past, but only as a last resort when they deserved it, it has not done them any harm and they have all grown up knowing right from wrong, and with respect as we are all the best of friends together, so I must have been doing something right.
I am also old enough to remember getting the cane at school, it was an effective deterrent that worked, just compare the level of discipline in schools today compared to then, ok you got the odd sadist teacher but as I say it was an effective deterrent.
A lot of kids today are already out of control with no manners or respect, this is due to ■■■■ poor parenting skills by some deadlegs that should not be in charge of a hamster, let alone a child. so I reckon if this goes ahead it will only get worse.
What are your thoughts?agreed with you rob. my mates 2yr old daughter runs rings round him and his OH and they dont do [zb] to nip it in the bud. no discipline whatsoever and shes their little darling. makes me sick watching them pull their hair out pandering to her every demand and i have to get up and leave before i say something i shouldnt. she needs a damned good hiding imho but doubt it will ever happen and she’ll just turn into just another feral teenager and chav scum later in life.
truckbling:
25 years of not having corporal punishment should be evidence enough as to why it should return. It has been proven that the tree hugging soft soaping approach has not worked when it comes down to young offenders and criminals so why not return to a system that at least taught some bloody manners and made you think twice before telling a teacher to eff off or thinking about assaulting them.!well said.
So you’re effectively saying that a 2 year old child should be given a damned good hiding. 
Have you had the bottle to actually tell your ‘mate’ and the kid’s mother this yet.My advice would be that they should choose their ‘friends’ more carefully.While you should be on the law’s watch list.
Carryfast:
0a.:
robroy:
It’s been on the news today that the lefty pc mob are trying to make smacking your kids illegal.
When I say smacking, I don’t mean beating up your kids,… that is child abuse and is quite rightly and unarguably illegal, end of.
I have 4 kids between 28 and 17, they have all had a swift slap on the leg or arse in the past, but only as a last resort when they deserved it, it has not done them any harm and they have all grown up knowing right from wrong, and with respect as we are all the best of friends together, so I must have been doing something right.
I am also old enough to remember getting the cane at school, it was an effective deterrent that worked, just compare the level of discipline in schools today compared to then, ok you got the odd sadist teacher but as I say it was an effective deterrent.
A lot of kids today are already out of control with no manners or respect, this is due to ■■■■ poor parenting skills by some deadlegs that should not be in charge of a hamster, let alone a child. so I reckon if this goes ahead it will only get worse.
What are your thoughts?agreed with you rob. my mates 2yr old daughter runs rings round him and his OH and they dont do [zb] to nip it in the bud. no discipline whatsoever and shes their little darling. makes me sick watching them pull their hair out pandering to her every demand and i have to get up and leave before i say something i shouldnt. she needs a damned good hiding imho but doubt it will ever happen and she’ll just turn into just another feral teenager and chav scum later in life.
truckbling:
25 years of not having corporal punishment should be evidence enough as to why it should return. It has been proven that the tree hugging soft soaping approach has not worked when it comes down to young offenders and criminals so why not return to a system that at least taught some bloody manners and made you think twice before telling a teacher to eff off or thinking about assaulting them.!well said.
So you’re effectively saying that a 2 year old child should be given a damned good hiding.
i am yeah. problem? a slap across the legs when they start their tantrums and bawling is just what is needed. never did me any harm when i was a kid so whats your issue carryfast? seems from other replies that it worked just fine for many others from my era too and we all turned out alright. seems like you are one of the new breed of do-gooder ‘oooh no, you cant do that’ brigade that reads the daily mail and is outraged at the more thought of a damned good hiding to inject some discipline into todays youth. its people like you that are the reason this country is on its knees. 
0a.:
Carryfast:
0a.:
robroy:
It’s been on the news today that the lefty pc mob are trying to make smacking your kids illegal.
When I say smacking, I don’t mean beating up your kids,… that is child abuse and is quite rightly and unarguably illegal, end of.
I have 4 kids between 28 and 17, they have all had a swift slap on the leg or arse in the past, but only as a last resort when they deserved it, it has not done them any harm and they have all grown up knowing right from wrong, and with respect as we are all the best of friends together, so I must have been doing something right.
I am also old enough to remember getting the cane at school, it was an effective deterrent that worked, just compare the level of discipline in schools today compared to then, ok you got the odd sadist teacher but as I say it was an effective deterrent.
A lot of kids today are already out of control with no manners or respect, this is due to ■■■■ poor parenting skills by some deadlegs that should not be in charge of a hamster, let alone a child. so I reckon if this goes ahead it will only get worse.
What are your thoughts?agreed with you rob. my mates 2yr old daughter runs rings round him and his OH and they dont do [zb] to nip it in the bud. no discipline whatsoever and shes their little darling. makes me sick watching them pull their hair out pandering to her every demand and i have to get up and leave before i say something i shouldnt. she needs a damned good hiding imho but doubt it will ever happen and she’ll just turn into just another feral teenager and chav scum later in life.
truckbling:
25 years of not having corporal punishment should be evidence enough as to why it should return. It has been proven that the tree hugging soft soaping approach has not worked when it comes down to young offenders and criminals so why not return to a system that at least taught some bloody manners and made you think twice before telling a teacher to eff off or thinking about assaulting them.!well said.
So you’re effectively saying that a 2 year old child should be given a damned good hiding.
i am yeah. problem? a slap across the legs when they start their tantrums and bawling is just what is needed. never did me any harm when i was a kid so whats your issue carryfast? seems from other replies that it worked just fine for many others from my era too and we all turned out alright. seems like you are one of the new breed of do-gooder ‘oooh no, you cant do that’ brigade that reads the daily mail and is outraged at the more thought of a damned good hiding to inject some discipline into todays youth. its people like you that are the reason this country is on its knees.
That didn’t exactly answer the question as to wether you’ve said exactly what you’ve posted here to the child’s mother and father.So far things aren’t looking good for the OP’s case.
Carryfast:
0a.:
Carryfast:
0a.:
robroy:
It’s been on the news today that the lefty pc mob are trying to make smacking your kids illegal.
When I say smacking, I don’t mean beating up your kids,… that is child abuse and is quite rightly and unarguably illegal, end of.
I have 4 kids between 28 and 17, they have all had a swift slap on the leg or arse in the past, but only as a last resort when they deserved it, it has not done them any harm and they have all grown up knowing right from wrong, and with respect as we are all the best of friends together, so I must have been doing something right.
I am also old enough to remember getting the cane at school, it was an effective deterrent that worked, just compare the level of discipline in schools today compared to then, ok you got the odd sadist teacher but as I say it was an effective deterrent.
A lot of kids today are already out of control with no manners or respect, this is due to ■■■■ poor parenting skills by some deadlegs that should not be in charge of a hamster, let alone a child. so I reckon if this goes ahead it will only get worse.
What are your thoughts?agreed with you rob. my mates 2yr old daughter runs rings round him and his OH and they dont do [zb] to nip it in the bud. no discipline whatsoever and shes their little darling. makes me sick watching them pull their hair out pandering to her every demand and i have to get up and leave before i say something i shouldnt. she needs a damned good hiding imho but doubt it will ever happen and she’ll just turn into just another feral teenager and chav scum later in life.
truckbling:
25 years of not having corporal punishment should be evidence enough as to why it should return. It has been proven that the tree hugging soft soaping approach has not worked when it comes down to young offenders and criminals so why not return to a system that at least taught some bloody manners and made you think twice before telling a teacher to eff off or thinking about assaulting them.!well said.
So you’re effectively saying that a 2 year old child should be given a damned good hiding.
i am yeah. problem? a slap across the legs when they start their tantrums and bawling is just what is needed. never did me any harm when i was a kid so whats your issue carryfast? seems from other replies that it worked just fine for many others from my era too and we all turned out alright. seems like you are one of the new breed of do-gooder ‘oooh no, you cant do that’ brigade that reads the daily mail and is outraged at the more thought of a damned good hiding to inject some discipline into todays youth. its people like you that are the reason this country is on its knees.
That didn’t exactly answer the question as to wether you’ve said exactly what you’ve posted here to the child’s mother and father.So far things aren’t looking good for the OP’s case.
■■
nlo idea what youre on about. are you suggesting that i havent said this to the kids parents? well news for you fella, i have, as i speak my mind. they know im right too but are too scared to give the kid any discipline because theyd feel bad. wtf has the world come to ffs.
did you get disciplined by your parents when you were a kid carryfast? i wager so and it probably didnt do you any harm, despite your ravings about school heads in your other posts. whats the difference?
So carryfast, your way of dealing with these people is to hang them or lock them away from society? You don’t like the idea of children being smacked for bad behaviour but seem to be happy to string them up when they do something really nasty, You are a very odd fellow indeed? This post started talking about children being smacked, you’ve tried to turn it into something else, surprise surprise. Could you tell us how you dealt with your children when they we’re naughty, I’d like to know where I went wrong.
Slackbladder:
So carryfast, your way of dealing with these people is to hang them or lock them away from society? You don’t like the idea of children being smacked for bad behaviour but seem to be happy to string them up when they do something really nasty, You are a very odd fellow indeed? This post started talking about children being smacked, you’ve tried to turn it into something else, surprise surprise. Could you tell us how you dealt with your children when they we’re naughty, I’d like to know where I went wrong.
And maybe you could explain how giving a 2 year old child a ‘damned good hiding’ is going to help considering that it’s probably not even old enough to have the slightest clue as to why it’s being hit.
As for hanging the really nasty zb’s I didn’t say I’d be happy about it and I did say that locking them away from society is another option.But short of that all of your let’s hit anyone who,you and those knuckle draggers like you decide,has shown ‘insubordination’,with a stick is just likely to hurt and alienate the innocent while doing absolutely nothing to sort out the violent nutters of this world.
Carryfast, I know you cannot help yourself but please, don’t put words into my mouth. I never advocated giving a child a hiding of any sort, let alone a 2 year old. I see you have reverted to your normal stance of name calling, very mature. As we appear to be unable to do anything with kids other that beat them with sticks, me being a knuckledragger, for the slightest reason, then I will ask you again. How did you deal with your children when they were being bad, naughty or just plain insubordinate?
Slackbladder:
Carryfast, I know you cannot help yourself but please, don’t put words into my mouth. I never advocated giving a child a hiding of any sort, let alone a 2 year old. I see you have reverted to your normal stance of name calling, very mature. As we appear to be unable to do anything with kids other that beat them with sticks, me being a knuckledragger, for the slightest reason, then I will ask you again. How did you deal with your children when they were being bad, naughty or just plain insubordinate?
There can really be only two sides to this argument.That of the OP and it’s supporters,of which we’ve got the documented statements that (1) it’s ok to hit kids with a stick ( in my experience often a bit more than that ) for so called ‘insubordination’ and (2) it’s ok to give a 2 year old child ‘a damned good hiding’ for ‘bawling’ and tantrums which as any decent parent ‘should’ know is all just normal behaviour.
If you’ve read some of my other posts you’d know that I can’t tell you how I’ve ‘dealt’ with the issues in the case of my own kids because I haven’t had any.
However I can tell you from my own treatment at home that in general there’s a big difference between ‘insorbordination’ as opposed to evil criminal behaviour.In the case of the former if it comes to hitting kids then it’s usually more a parenting issue in the form of losing their temper and patience mostly for totally unconnected reasons like financial or work pressures etc etc.In which case,unlike being hit by the zb’s masquerading as teachers at school,in the ( very ) rare events where that happened my parents were good enough to admit that not blame me for it.
Whereas if it’s the latter case then the parents really would have a problem in which case,as I’ve said,it becomes an issue for the police and the prison system and no amount of hitting such kids will make the slightest difference in turning a violent criminal into a decent citizen.
Therefore in answer to your question ‘if’ I’d had any kids of my own I’d treat them in exactly the same way as I’d expect to be treated myself and treat others.That being according to the same laws as everyone else is subject to,in regards to assault.By that same yardstick I can assure you that ‘if’ my and many other parents had have known what was going on at my school and the ‘disciplinary’ regime that was being applied there then that rule probably would have been forgotten about when dealing with the teachers concerned.Which is one of the reasons why I and probably the many others who were on the wrong end of that said nothing.As I’ve said you’ve made it quite clear which side of the argument you are on and knuckle draggers seems as good a description as any.Therefore if the cap fits wear it.
Carryfast:
If you’ve read some of my other posts you’d know that I can’t tell you how I’ve ‘dealt’ with the issues in the case of my own kids because I haven’t had any.
Then may I suggest you shut your mouth you hypocrite. Too many experts at nothing on here for my liking and you sir seem to be one of them, an opinion on everything yet know nothing about most of it.
Truckbling:
Carryfast:
If you’ve read some of my other posts you’d know that I can’t tell you how I’ve ‘dealt’ with the issues in the case of my own kids because I haven’t had any.Then may I suggest you shut your mouth you hypocrite. Too many experts at nothing on here for my liking and you sir seem to be one of them, an opinion on everything yet know nothing about most of it.
Let me guess you’re just another one who thinks it’s ok to give a 2 year old a ‘damned good hiding’ for whatever reason you can dream up.If so I’d suggest it’s those like you who need to have your zb mouths shut.
Now, we all know that carryfast went to Auschwitz for his schooling, but I went in the 50’s and early 60’s to primary school in Clapham and secondary in Brixton. We weren’t allowed to run riot and me being more stupid than nasty had my arse and hands caned more than once. I didn’t get belted black and blue or caned so much and so hard that I lost skin and if I had, my parents would have been up there pronto ! I won’t ask where carryfast’s parents or guardians were because that’ll only start him off again. I just can’t imagine a school getting away with the treatment he describes.
Back on topic: I too think that parents and teachers should be able to discipline kids; not beat them up, but keep them under control. Letting them do as they like with no boundaries and giving them all rights and no responsibilities doesn’t do them any favours later in life and for many of them it certainly doesn’t turn them into responsible adults.
peterm:
Now, we all know that carryfast went to Auschwitz for his schooling, but I went in the 50’s and early 60’s to primary school in Clapham and secondary in Brixton. We weren’t allowed to run riot and me being more stupid than nasty had my arse and hands caned more than once. I didn’t get belted black and blue or caned so much and so hard that I lost skin and if I had, my parents would have been up there pronto ! I won’t ask where carryfast’s parents or guardians were because that’ll only start him off again. I just can’t imagine a school getting away with the treatment he describes.Back on topic: I too think that parents and teachers should be able to discipline kids; not beat them up, but keep them under control. Letting them do as they like with no boundaries and giving them all rights and no responsibilities doesn’t do them any favours later in life and for many of them it certainly doesn’t turn them into responsible adults.
To be fair we didn’t actually have a sign on the gates saying work will make us free,or the vicious guard dogs and gas chambers but I’d bet some of those teachers and the heads would have made good SS guards. 
My point is that you won’t beat the ‘boundaries’ of reasonable behaviour into kids they’ll learn them in their own time in their own way and the freedom to disagree and rebel against teachers and parents is all part of that learning process.IE the argument here is all about those documented comments that it’s ok to hit kids with a stick for ‘insobordination’ or give a 2 year old a ‘damned good hiding’ for bawling and tantrums.
However all that probably would have been expected in the raising of kids in ■■■■ Germany of course with obvious results. 