As far as i know it is illigal to run with the skel closed up with a box on 
Because its classed as a load and you would have the weight on the back end so you would lose traction and could create a jacknife scenario and it would handle bad when braking as well especily when it rain etc. However its ok with just the mt skel and no box 
Mrknowitall:
As far as i know it is illigal to run with the skel closed up with a box on
Maximum weights are determined by axle spacing using a known factor
If your axle weights are correct, then it cannot be illegal. 20’ containers were carried on 4 wheel rigids for many years. The “load” only weighs around 2200kg
Unless there are engineering or manufacturing reasons why they cannot be driven in the closed position, such as the locks are not robust enough and only used for shunting backwards.
When I started out the trailers just had pinholes where you placed the twist lock where you needed them, in fact before twistlocks, rope was used to secure a sea container 
Wheel Nut:
scanny77:
i was always told not only never run with the trailer shortened but try and avoid turning too. line up, shorten, back onto the bay and stretch it out again as soon as i can. apparently there are stability issues when it is closed up which does make sensei have pulled a 20 foot skellie once and havent even seen another 1 (not a split chassis with 5 axles). it was so old that it didnt have side markers and only had 3 suzie sockets
They used to be the in thing for shifting 20’ lift tanks, quite a few scary moments with them I can tell you
Petes Haulage out of Birmingham still use the 20ft Skellies out on the road. Used to seem them quite a bit when in FL
Its not advisable to run with a 40ft sliding trailer with a box on in the closed position 
i know people do and i have in the past but you are supposed to take notice of the intructions that should be on the trailer 
stay safe and dont be a plonker is the best advice i would give anyone
I think really the point of this discussion is that if there is a 20’ loaded position on your trailer and you have not used it then VOSA will fine you, and if you wanted to fight the fine what would your argument be?
Remember we’re all classed as professional drivers and if anything is found wrong we’re in the ■■■■.
Maximum weights are determined by axle spacing using a known factor
If your axle weights are correct, then it cannot be illegal. 20’ containers were carried on 4 wheel rigids for many years. The “load” only weighs around 2200kg
thats not 100% correct, in the past i have had new trailers made and also re furbished them myself to run on a certain job
(short flat trailers) these were built to carry maximum weight so they were 3 axle and as short as possible within the law!, 1 trailer i had the rear axle to pin centre was to short so even if the axle/s were not overloaded it still wont go to maximum weight legally
i can see your point about 20’ containers on 20’ tandum trailers at lower weights but i also remember a job i used to do a lot running from felixtowe with imported stone that was emptied out of the 20’ box on the dock and loaded onto a flat trailer and 27 ton was common out of a 20’ box i often thought how many overloaded 20’ boxes are on the road and how keen are they on the dock over weights? i never went over a weighbridge at the dock but often did at the delivery point!
i have never worked out of the docks on boxes but i have spent a lot of time with a slider with 30’ and 40’ flat racks/skids for the transport of concrete beams out of bisons,one of the ideas
is to close the trailer up from the 30’ running pos at the delivery point for tight access
moose
Moose:
Maximum weights are determined by axle spacing using a known factorIf your axle weights are correct, then it cannot be illegal. 20’ containers were carried on 4 wheel rigids for many years. The “load” only weighs around 2200kg
thats not 100% correct, in the past i have had new trailers made and also re furbished them myself to run on a certain job
(short flat trailers) these were built to carry maximum weight so they were 3 axle and as short as possible within the law!, 1 trailer i had the rear axle to pin centre was to short so even if the axle/s were not overloaded it still wont go to maximum weight legally
Maximum weight determined by axle spacing.(6x2 Tractor Unit)
The authorised weight (in kilograms) for the vehicles shown must equal the product of the distance measured in metres between the foremost and rearmost axles of the vehicle multiplied by the factor specified below. (rounded up to the nearest 10kg) The factor in this instance is 6000 3.8 wheelbase = 22800kg 3.6 wheelbase = 21600etc
Weight by reference to axle spacing.(Trailer)
The maximum authorised weight (in kilograms) for an articulated vehicle shall be the product of the distance measured in metres, between the kingpin and the centre of the rearmost axle of the semi trailer, multiplied by the factor specified, and rounded up to the nearest 10kg. The factor in this case is 5500. 7400mm x 5500 = 40700kg. 6500mm x 5500 = 35750kg
Obviously these are maximum design weights and we still have to keep under the magic 44000kg and also within the permitted turning circles of 12.5m outer & 5.3m inner radii
I haven’t got a trailer handy to measure but I think if you check your wheelbase and look at the plating certificates, these figures will be close.
I have been pulling 40ft sliding trailers since they 1st came out and 20ft sliders before that. And i can say for sure that if you drive with the trailer in the wrong position for the box that you have on depending on the make and spec of trailer, then you can get pulled by vosa and if you are involved in a rta and your trailer is set wrong you will be in trouble with the law and vosa. The closed position is for loading and unloading. The trailers are set to run in the correct positions for example brake sensors etc. At the end of the day experiance is the way forward
Mrknowitall:
I have been pulling 40ft sliding trailers since they 1st came out and 20ft sliders before that. And i can say for sure that if you drive with the trailer in the wrong position for the box that you have on depending on the make and spec of trailer, then you can get pulled by vosa and if you are involved in a rta and your trailer is set wrong you will be in trouble with the law and vosa. The closed position is for loading and unloading. The trailers are set to run in the correct positions for example brake sensors etc. At the end of the day experiance is the way forward
Correct. And that’s why I will continue driving with empty 20ft boxes in the closed position.
Mrknowitall:
I have been pulling 40ft sliding trailers since they 1st came out and 20ft sliders before that. And i can say for sure that if you drive with the trailer in the wrong position for the box that you have on depending on the make and spec of trailer, then you can get pulled by vosa and if you are involved in a rta and your trailer is set wrong you will be in trouble with the law and vosa. The closed position is for loading and unloading. The trailers are set to run in the correct positions for example brake sensors etc. At the end of the day experiance is the way forward
I am not saying you are wrong, if you look at the fifth post of this thread, I said almost the same. However when someone says VOSA will do you for it. I always want to know under which legislation, and what the offence code is.
VOSA and trailer manufacturers or even chassis modification workshops have to work to the same rules, in this case the Construction and Use regulations, but we are also bound by EC96/53 and Type Approval.
Two points have already been raised which may affect the risk of prosecution.
-
The weight borne by the driving axle or
driving axles of a vehicle or vehicle
combination must not be less than 25 %
of the total laden weight of the vehicle
or vehicle combination, when used in
international traffic. -
The distance between the rear axle of a
motor vehicle and the front axle of a
trailer must not be less than 3,00 m.
This only applies to roadtrains and not articulated vehicles.
As I said earlier, not extending the trailer again after unloading is sheer laziness, it may get you a look see from VOSA but I am very doubtful about a prosecution. If I was a VOSA man, I may think, look at that lazy zb, I wonder if he has put his dog clip and ABS lead in.
Its a good job i know what i am doing when it comes to sliding trailers you keep going on about axle weights etc, but its more about stability and safe handling and braking the axle weights are fine when you take into account whether the trailer is in the running position or not you just carry on doing it all wrong and i will carry on and do it the safe and legal way if any of you want a free lesson on the rights and wrongs of the sliding trailer i would be happy to show you how to work one safe and legal 
The only times I run with a twenty foot box on in the closed position is if I’m only travelling a short distance ie less than a mile, of course only if it’s empty. For the people who would accuse me of lazyness, spot on, your dam right it is.
I still want to know why I’m told I can’t run a forty foot box in the fortyfive foot position.
The 45ft position is the same hole on most trailers as the 20ft hole. Its all about weight and brake sensors why you should not put a 40ft box on the 45ft pins. But if you have a trailer where you only have the 40ft position then that is ok to put a 45ft on the trailer. Unless of course you have a headboard dont get me wrong i have carried 40ft box’s on the 45ft pins in the past with no problems but if vosa pull you in for a check and they notice they may well have something to say about it stay safe everyone
I am unsure of all this talk of brake sensors and VOSA
They have to have a fault, or a defect to prosecute either by court summons or by FPN
I have searched all my VOSA manuals and the only mention of sliding skeletals is to check the chassis for corrosion and that all locking pins are in position. It even mentions that if the locking pins are operated by air or hydraulics, these actuators are not part of the roadside check, unless detachment is likely.
I stopped buying glossy magazines with pictures of lorries with chrome bumpers and now waste my money and time by studying the legalities of operating road haulage vehicles.
Wheel Nut:
I am unsure of all this talk of brake sensors and VOSAThey have to have a fault, or a defect to prosecute either by court summons or by FPN
I have searched all my VOSA manuals and the only mention of sliding skeletals is to check the chassis for corrosion and that all locking pins are in position. It even mentions that if the locking pins are operated by air or hydraulics, these actuators are not part of the roadside check, unless detachment is likely.
I stopped buying glossy magazines with pictures of lorries with chrome bumpers and now waste my money and time by studying the legalities of operating road haulage vehicles.
So in actual fact mrknowitall doesn’t.
Rob K:
Wheel Nut:
I am unsure of all this talk of brake sensors and VOSAThey have to have a fault, or a defect to prosecute either by court summons or by FPN
I have searched all my VOSA manuals and the only mention of sliding skeletals is to check the chassis for corrosion and that all locking pins are in position. It even mentions that if the locking pins are operated by air or hydraulics, these actuators are not part of the roadside check, unless detachment is likely.
I stopped buying glossy magazines with pictures of lorries with chrome bumpers and now waste my money and time by studying the legalities of operating road haulage vehicles.
So in actual fact mrknowitall doesn’t.
It made me wonder how the Stiller driver got home when he tipped Rob He wouldnt be able to couple up to his bogie because of the brake sensors, stability, braking and safe handling.
He must be one brave puppy
When you put a 45ft in correct position the trailer would have been shortened slightly, and box would sit on the front pins ie like on a dennison slider… Thus moving the container forward slightly, this would then keep you in your over all length with the 45ft container and t/u… I would have thought…
As for running shortened with 20ft, I personally think as i said earlier that it maybe to do with air lines in the chassis of the trailer getting kinked and not giving the trailer brakes correct pressure… I don’t think running like it is illegal but it would be a pull by Vosa to see what else you cannot be bothered to do…
James
I am here: maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.187993,-1.347813
all this talk about brake sensors and kinking airlines is nowt to do with running in the closed position, if the airlines kinked every time the thing was closed up it would be pointless! and you would need a bucket full of fittings and length of spare airline 2 miles long!
can anyone explain where the brake sensors are fitted so as they wont work in the closed position but do in the normal running position?
the only real problem i can see was pointed out by shuttle spanker and that is lack of weight on the pin and the issue of traction and jacknife under braking when empty
Moose:
all this talk about brake sensors and kinking airlines is nowt to do with running in the closed position, if the airlines kinked every time the thing was closed up it would be pointless! and you would need a bucket full of fittings and length of spare airline 2 miles long!
can anyone explain where the brake sensors are fitted so as they wont work in the closed position but do in the normal running position?
the only real problem i can see was pointed out by shuttle spanker and that is lack of weight on the pin and the issue of traction and jacknife under braking when empty
I am with you, and if Shuttle Spanker is paying the wages and he wants the skeletal in running mode at all times he can have it, if he asks his drivers to wear pink pants, he still calls the shots
What I am always wary of is someone coming on here saying VOSA said this, or VOSA did that, it is scaremongering and some of the biggest fleets are guilty of passing on misinformation, generally through a lack of understanding.
You cannot get done for not winding your legs up completely, as long as they are not dragging on the floor, yet there are stories that say drivers have been fined for it.
You are right about weight on king pin… But giving up now…
I’m off to pull my dennison slider in the normal positions. Lol
I am here: maps.google.com/maps?ll=52.847696,-1.296115