I guess that there will be a big demand for hgv licence holders to sit in with trainee drivers in order to address the shortage. So old/retiree drivers might be advised to maintain there licences in order to pick up pocket money for minimal effort. On reflection, sitting in may be more harrowing than I imagine.
Does the qualified driver, sitting in with the provisional driver, have to hold a valid CPC even if he is not driving?
Optimum:
Does the qualified driver, sitting in with the provisional driver, have to hold a valid CPC even if he is not driving?
Provisional 
… do you mean newly qualified LGV pass driver
They wouldn’t need a CPC to sit in the passenger seat all day, but they would as soon as they sat in the drivers seat. Not really any different to going out with a second man who does the loading and unloading but doesn’t have a licence
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Technically you do not need a DQC as long as you don’t do any driving and can be sure that you will not need to do any driving.
Having said that, the prospect of hundreds of retired HGV drivers supervising learner HGV drivers is somewhat daunting to say the least, the fact that a HGV driver may have decades of HGV driving experience does not mean he/she would be a competent supervisor of learner HGV drivers.
I am an old b… I would not like to be in a passenger seat with a new driver no thanks “unless it was someone I know” 
tachograph:
Technically you do not need a DQC as long as you don’t do any driving and can be sure that you will not need to do any driving.Having said that, the prospect of hundreds of retired HGV drivers supervising learner HGV drivers is somewhat daunting to say the least, the fact that a HGV driver may have decades of HGV driving experience does not mean he/she would be a competent supervisor of learner HGV drivers.
Yeah i wouldn’t want most of the old stress heads i work with training new drivers.
Companies should be training people properly not just leaving it to experienced drivers to do it.
Who’s training the trainer’s■■?
It’s a real problem in the industry, probably not just this industry but all companies just expect someone else to do the training…
Interesting to see one of our managers recently get C&E & realise just how stressful it can be for a new driver. So much so, said person only lasted a week before begging to go back in the office because they couldn’t sleep because of the stress
I took great satisfaction in telling this person that they are now a professional driver & so should be able to over come it. Just like they tell all of us 
Anyway point is the company thought 1 week with one of the old hands would be enough…
Have had to accompany lots of drivers new to the companies, almost all of the new drivers were already accomplished drivers so no problems with the driving (only the foolish would take on complete novices to drive car transporters, hard enough to learn when you have years of lorrying under your belt), just a case of teaching them the job itself.
Only once have i refused to further train a bloke after one terrifying day out with him, he literally hadn’t got a clue how to drive a lorry because he’d never been out in a lorry since passing the test, dunno how he managed that by the way, but if he was typical of what new drivers are like then no way would i put myself up for accompanying, certainly not for pocket money rate.
Mate of mine once had to teach a complete numpty, i’ll regale that story sometime, a catalogue of disaster leading to two wrecked clutches plus load damage.
Juddian:
Have had to accompany lots of drivers new to the companies, almost all of the new drivers were already accomplished drivers so no problems with the driving (only the foolish would take on complete novices to drive car transporters, hard enough to learn when you have years of lorrying under your belt), just a case of teaching them the job itself.Only once have i refused to further train a bloke after one terrifying day out with him, he literally hadn’t got a clue how to drive a lorry because he’d never been out in a lorry since passing the test, dunno how he managed that by the way, but if he was typical of what new drivers are like then no way would i put myself up for accompanying, certainly not for pocket money rate.
Mate of mine once had to teach a complete numpty, i’ll regale that story sometime, a catalogue of disaster leading to two wrecked clutches plus load damage.
Two wrecked clutches? Either that company was foolhardy, or your recollection is a bit suspect.
the nodding donkey:
Juddian:
Two wrecked clutches? Either that company was foolhardy, or your recollection is a bit suspect.
The company concerned was small, one hired lorry no full time driver, my mate used to to do a regular run around once or twice a week for them, boss was under intense pressure to employ family member who proved to be a liability in a wagon, and yes he destroyed one clutch leading to recovery and a replacement vehicle which he also wrecked the clutch on after my mate had washed his hands of him.
Another fool a bit like the one i refused to further train who are the reason why virtually every new lorry is now automatic because they can’t cope with even a synchro lorry gearbox having no concept of anything other than a 4 or 5 speed car gearbox everyone else is assumed to be of their level of competence***, and like every other answer the brains come up with, instead of getting shut of such bods who will never be lorry drivers, instead they make it simpler for such people by fitting automatic clutches, all this does is allow people who should never be out in a wagon to do further and more expensive damage, as the family bod managed with the second replacement vehicle by failing to leave the fridge running and by the time the vehicle was recovered from the delivery point it was abandoned in and the back doors opened the remaining parts of the load had melted or were melting and flooding the fridge deck.
Nearly forgot, also left the pallet trauck, raised, under a full pallet, the picture doesn’t need painting any further surely.
I have no idea what the outcome was financially re the burned out clucthes and recovery/loss of hire costs to the hirer because my mate never went back and they would probably have kept any claims resulting from the relative’s incompetence to themselves anyway, no doubt the hire company sought to mitigate their losses.
The episode despite being some 10/12 years ago is etched in my memory.
Why i’m explaining the episode further when someone suggests my tale might be other than the truth i have no idea, but answering your loaded question , yes the boss may well have been foolish looked at coldly but in some diverse family run businesses the pressure to employ family or same culture is strong, the factory and family themselves hadn’t a clue about lorries or necessary driver competence hence the rented vehicle as and when required, no doubt some question were raised when the claims from the hire company dropped on the doormat.
**this is one part of the many reasons why driver wages stagnated over the past 15 years, it wasn’t just the EU opening the floodgates to former eastern block countries (the people of whom i don’t blame one bit for taking a chance on bettering themselves), automation of lorries transmissions heralded an influx of those who would otherwise not have made the grade and soon been found lacking and sent packing.
Company driver going out with a new driver has been going on for years , not sure why you’d need a driver trainer to show how to do a bit of paperwork , how the job gets done etc , it’s not rocket science is it
Similar scenario of a licence holder training learner Drivers. The individual concerned got his class 1 licence in the army 12 years ago, never ever driven a class 1 since his test, never done commercial driving and not driven a rigid for over 10 years, by his own admission has never had the confidence to drive a class 1 commercially, and yes he has just secured a job as a HGV driving instructor in the private sector…I suppose from the employers point of view desperate times make for desperate measures.
Juddian:
the nodding donkey:
Juddian:
Two wrecked clutches? Either that company was foolhardy, or your recollection is a bit suspect.
The company concerned was small, one hired lorry no full time driver, my mate used to to do a regular run around once or twice a week for them, boss was under intense pressure to employ family member who proved to be a liability in a wagon, and yes he destroyed one clutch leading to recovery and a replacement vehicle which he also wrecked the clutch on after my mate had washed his hands of him.
Another fool a bit like the one i refused to further train who are the reason why virtually every new lorry is now automatic because they can’t cope with even a synchro lorry gearbox having no concept of anything other than a 4 or 5 speed car gearbox everyone else is assumed to be of their level of competence***, and like every other answer the brains come up with, instead of getting shut of such bods who will never be lorry drivers, instead they make it simpler for such people by fitting automatic clutches, all this does is allow people who should never be out in a wagon to do further and more expensive damage, as the family bod managed with the second replacement vehicle by failing to leave the fridge running and by the time the vehicle was recovered from the delivery point it was abandoned in and the back doors opened the remaining parts of the load had melted or were melting and flooding the fridge deck.
Nearly forgot, also left the pallet trauck, raised, under a full pallet, the picture doesn’t need painting any further surely.I have no idea what the outcome was financially re the burned out clucthes and recovery/loss of hire costs to the hirer because my mate never went back and they would probably have kept any claims resulting from the relative’s incompetence to themselves anyway, no doubt the hire company sought to mitigate their losses.
The episode despite being some 10/12 years ago is etched in my memory.
Why i’m explaining the episode further when someone suggests my tale might be other than the truth i have no idea, but answering your loaded question , yes the boss may well have been foolish looked at coldly but in some diverse family run businesses the pressure to employ family or same culture is strong, the factory and family themselves hadn’t a clue about lorries or necessary driver competence hence the rented vehicle as and when required, no doubt some question were raised when the claims from the hire company dropped on the doormat.
**this is one part of the many reasons why driver wages stagnated over the past 15 years, it wasn’t just the EU opening the floodgates to former eastern block countries (the people of whom i don’t blame one bit for taking a chance on bettering themselves), automation of lorries transmissions heralded an influx of those who would otherwise not have made the grade and soon been found lacking and sent packing.
Yeah, my question was a little bit loaded, maybe a bit unfair, you are usually quiet the sensible chap. I could not understand why anybody would send out a driver again after he has been observed burning out a clutch through sheer incompetence and probably bloodymindedness.
To be honest, I find the oft repeated argument that automatic gearboxes have caused an influx of incompetent drivers, and thereby held back wages, somewhat vacuous. There were many idiots driving around in trucks with gearboxes, the fact that you can dip a clutch and move a stick does not make you a beter driver. I worked in South Wales in the 90’s, and the driving standards were often abysmal. The road from Port Talbot to Queensferry was a racetrack for one, with steel lorries overtaking each other narrow A roads and blind bends. I see probably as many young drivers, in yards and services, nailing reverses or being good drivers, as I have seen gnarly veterans, who cant drive, but always trot out the “I’ve done this for 40 years”, “I’ve been reversing since before you where born”, etc. Its not the equipment that makes the driver, its what’s between the ears.
I didnt mean to imply that you made up the story (christ, you, as many of us, have seen to much to have the need to make things up… 
).
ND, no it wasn’t the bloke being bloody minded he was after all family inlaw from what my mate could gather so wifey’s side putting pressure on the company owner to employ him rather than an outsider, it was simply once up in high range he (and the bod i only spent one day of terror with 
) had no concept of what low or high range meant was and couldn’t work out how, or why, one would shift to low range, hence constant massive clutch slipping to maintain drive.
The bloke i took out you’d be entering already busy roundabouts at 20+ mph because he didn’t want to come to a halt or merge at a timed roll-on as anyone with an ounce of common tries, why i didn’t bail out and give the Mrs a come-and-rescue-me call i still don’t know, wouldn’t make that same mistake again i’d be out the passenger door at the first sign.
What changed when the autos and easy to drive/load lorries came about, in my humble, is that many who didn’t want the job before because there’s was graft involved suddenly found it was easy money, where all the skill needed for so many operators (especially as the logictics giants grew so no truck owners/buyers to witness the daily returns of vehicle with panels and lights hanging off) was to steer the thing on a route already planned or which pratnav instructed and back it onto a bay or pull a set of curtains back…witness the wailing since they’ve had to strap a load down.
The other big thing was the closures of so many factories etc, so people who never had any intentions or desires to becaome lorry drivers used their redundancy pay to change careers mid life, and anyone might surmise that someone who never actually wanted to be a lorry driver in the first place wasn’t going to take a great interest or pride in perfecting their skill set.
Maybe i’m wrong here.
Optimum:
I guess that there will be a big demand for hgv licence holders to sit in with trainee drivers in order to address the shortage.
Will there? Apart from literally a handful of companies I’ve come across in the last 26 years none ever have done that.
Juddian:
ND, no it wasn’t the bloke being bloody minded he was after all family inlaw from what my mate could gather so wifey’s side putting pressure on the company owner to employ him rather than an outsider, it was simply once up in high range he (and the bod i only spent one day of terror withOnly once have i refused to further train a bloke after one terrifying day out with him, he literally hadn’t got a clue how to drive a lorry because he’d never been out in a lorry since passing the test, dunno how he managed that by the way, but if he was typical of what new drivers are like then no way would i put myself up for accompanying, certainly not for pocket money rate.
So just like every other driver who has just passed their test then? No doubt that was you when you first started and I expect you weren’t exactly a beacon of driving prowess either when you went out in your first truck in your first job. I bet you didn’t have much concept of range changes and splitters either and no doubt spent a fair bit of the first week or so slipping the clutch when you buggered up a gearchange trying to keep it moving. I would expect that anyone sat with you might have had the same feeling as that.
So why didn’t you teach him given he’d never driven a lorry since passing his test and that was what you were there for? Might have saved two clutches and a callout if you had done what they’d asked you to. When I went for a job interview at DPD back when it was Geopost and they were running Merc Actrosses with the EPS gearbox even before going out for the pre-interview assessment drive the driver trainer doing it asked if you wanted some training on the gearbox because they recognised not everyone had driven an EPS box. As it happens being agency I had done so was fine with it but if a company is prepared to offer that training just for a job interview assessment drive then surely someone who is riding shotgun for someone during their training on their first few weeks in the job should maybe do the same? After all it’s not a given he drove trucks with range changes, especially if he’d just come up from Class 2.
Maybe it’s a good thing you only spent one day with him as clearly you’re not someone who should be training anyone because you obviously have the attitude that they should already know it. On the odd occassion I’m asked to “look after a new starter”, aka train someone and show them how to do the job, I go in with the assumption they’ve just passed their test and know nothing and whilst I won’t teach them to ■■■■ eggs whilst I gauge what they know if I see they’re struggling I’ll give them some instruction. That’s included everything from teaching a guy how to couple up an artic trailer as I saw him going in and out trying to hook up the trailer several times then standing there wondering why the pin wouldn’t lock in (turns out he’d passed his test in wagon and drag) to showing someone how to correctly use a ratchet and strap so we don’t have to cut the straps off when they do it wrong. You on the other hand seem to be the kind of driver I’ve come across before who is more interested in figuring out how to maximise the time spent inspecting the inside of your eyelids than actually showing someone the ropes as you’ve been asked to.
^^ try reading the posts
For the hard of reading at the back.
The bloke i was supposed to train was specifically on a car transporter, no one in their right mind would consider employing a driver who couldn’t drive a wagon to be a trasnporter driver, especially a semi trailer design with peak…look it up if you don’t know what one of those is, would like to see you manage one.
I’m not a lorry driving instructor, and no way am i going to teach a clueless bloke to drive a lorry in order to put my name to him, sending him out with a full height car transporter artic with peak, disaster beckons…and it did several weeks later with that bod at a cost well into 6 figures, i told them he’d never be a lorry driver and he proved me right.
If i’d signed him off i would have been implicated in the later inquiries.
It was a mate of mine with the other case who burned out two clutches, plus the other damage and ruined load, he was only supposed to be showing the bod the routes and delivery points, not teaching a bod to drive from scratch.
Take your clever ■■■■ attitude and do with it what you like.
Juddian:
^^ try reading the posts
I did. You shouldn’t be anywhere near a training role.
What you have to take into account Juddian is that Conor is a complete useless, lazy, know sod all, scruffy herbert.
Juddian:
ND, no it wasn’t the bloke being bloody minded he was after all family inlaw from what my mate could gather so wifey’s side putting pressure on the company owner to employ him rather than an outsider, it was simply once up in high range he (and the bod i only spent one day of terror withThe bloke i took out you’d be entering already busy roundabouts at 20+ mph because he didn’t want to come to a halt or merge at a timed roll-on as anyone with an ounce of common tries, why i didn’t bail out and give the Mrs a come-and-rescue-me call i still don’t know, wouldn’t make that same mistake again i’d be out the passenger door at the first sign.
What changed when the autos and easy to drive/load lorries came about, in my humble, is that many who didn’t want the job before because there’s was graft involved suddenly found it was easy money, where all the skill needed for so many operators (especially as the logictics giants grew so no truck owners/buyers to witness the daily returns of vehicle with panels and lights hanging off) was to steer the thing on a route already planned or which pratnav instructed and back it onto a bay or pull a set of curtains back…witness the wailing since they’ve had to strap a load down.
The other big thing was the closures of so many factories etc, so people who never had any intentions or desires to becaome lorry drivers used their redundancy pay to change careers mid life, and anyone might surmise that someone who never actually wanted to be a lorry driver in the first place wasn’t going to take a great interest or pride in perfecting their skill set.
Maybe i’m wrong here.
I can sympathise with that scenario. I once had to show a new driver the farms and how to collect the milk from farms, I o e of our articulated tanks. He had attained his licence in the army, and had recently finished working for Dynorod…
Despite my protestations, he insisted o driving like a van, braking hard into roundabouts and corners, trying to shift down to second gear on approach to junction s, you know the type. I half jokingly told him that if he was going to roll it over, to do so onto his side, and not mine. On return to the depot, the supervisor asked me what he was like, and I told him that he was going to roll one over. Three weeks later he rolled one at Cleyhill roundabout (A36 Warminster). Still kept his job too (but he, that was for Turners )
don’t normally retaliate, will resume ignoring