shunters

[coffeeholic]

MolePower:

Coffeeholic:

MolePower:

merc0447:
This is the daftest thing ive heard in a while

can only tell you what was told to me by the driver who was stopped

I suspect the driver was talking ■■■■■■■■. I know that may come as a shock but it does happen occasionally.

It wouldn’t have been the first time !
I too thought it was a bit strange , but stranger things have happened , ive once been asked to produce the blank but used scribe card from the second drivers part of the tacho as well

Most of the drawer type tacho heads shouldn’t even have a ‘blank’ disc in the second drivers bit anyway, it can’t do automatic time changes when there is a disc in there. I guess he noticed there was a card in there and wondered why.

[8wheels]

I’m sure that no shunter would find themself inthis position as there must be a lot of stop time but if you worked a long shift and did loads of small movements you could run out of driving time before your shift was over. What would happen then? Go home early or go over hours on the card. All very well until you get tasked with some duty taking you out of the gates.

[coffeeholic]

8wheels:
I’m sure that no shunter would find themself inthis position as there must be a lot of stop time but if you worked a long shift and did loads of small movements you could run out of driving time before your shift was over. What would happen then? Go home early or go over hours on the card. All very well until you get tasked with some duty taking you out of the gates.

For a shunter who never goes out on the road the hours rules don’t apply. This will be more about not having a vehicle showing as being driven without a card in, even though it isn’t a problem, than shunters hours.

[toowise]

Like Molepower, we sometimes leave our trucks in a customers premises, (private land ,no public access) to be loaded overnight.
The guys that load them do not have HGV licences (or Digicards)but have received manouvering training from a qualified driving instructor / assessor.
The vehicles are only driven for about 30 yards/metres in reverse, then loaded and parked up. maximum movement is probably about 100 yards/metres.
Occasionaly this movement can be immeadiately prior to us picking up the vehicle, and as such could look suspiciously like the driver has loaded “off the card”, even though that doesnt happen.(boss is a stickler for hours regs.)

Maybe one of our VOSA brethren on this site could post a clarification about this,…are we innocent til proven etc or the other way round…If this could cause problems in a check it may be that we need a night shunter to load the vehicles and therefore eliminate the problem of vehicles being moved without a card

[sea_frog]

toowise:
Like Molepower, we sometimes leave our trucks in a customers premises, (private land ,no public access) to be loaded overnight.
The guys that load them do not have HGV licences (or Digicards)but have received manouvering training from a qualified driving instructor / assessor.
The vehicles are only driven for about 30 yards/metres in reverse, then loaded and parked up. maximum movement is probably about 100 yards/metres.
Occasionaly this movement can be immeadiately prior to us picking up the vehicle, and as such could look suspiciously like the driver has loaded “off the card”, even though that doesnt happen.(boss is a stickler for hours regs.)

Maybe one of our VOSA brethren on this site could post a clarification about this,…are we innocent til proven etc or the other way round…If this could cause problems in a check it may be that we need a night shunter to load the vehicles and therefore eliminate the problem of vehicles being moved without a card

same as above with the exception of the distance which could be as much as 1km four movements

[billybigrig]

toowise:
Like Molepower, we sometimes leave our trucks in a customers premises, (private land ,no public access) to be loaded overnight.

I’d be more concerned with any potential O licence issues than missing mileage

[simon]

sea frog:

toowise:
Like Molepower, we sometimes leave our trucks in a customers premises, (private land ,no public access) to be loaded overnight.
The guys that load them do not have HGV licences (or Digicards)but have received manouvering training from a qualified driving instructor / assessor.
The vehicles are only driven for about 30 yards/metres in reverse, then loaded and parked up. maximum movement is probably about 100 yards/metres.
Occasionaly this movement can be immeadiately prior to us picking up the vehicle, and as such could look suspiciously like the driver has loaded “off the card”, even though that doesnt happen.(boss is a stickler for hours regs.)

Maybe one of our VOSA brethren on this site could post a clarification about this,…are we innocent til proven etc or the other way round…If this could cause problems in a check it may be that we need a night shunter to load the vehicles and therefore eliminate the problem of vehicles being moved without a card

same as above with the exception of the distance which could be as much as 1km four movements

Are you saying that a truck could do 4km, off the card, in one night?
That seems a bit excessive to me.
100m I would expect to be ok, especially when there are people employed and trained to do the job. Presumably the company who do that loading will also generate the paperwork, showing where the load came from. It’s a two minute job to make a phone call and clear up any potential problem created by a missing 100m, if they’d even bother. 2 minutes is only provided that the pulled driver passes the attitude test, otherwise getting round to making the call then getting round to letting the driver go could easily take half an hour or more.

[simon]

billybigrig:

toowise:
Like Molepower, we sometimes leave our trucks in a customers premises, (private land ,no public access) to be loaded overnight.

I’d be more concerned with any potential O licence issues than missing mileage

What potential ‘O’ licence issues ?
A truck left to be loaded overnight generates no issues, potential or otherwise, that I can see.
Logistics companies do it all day with one set of wagons and all night with another set.

[trukkertone]

indeed…it is not a legal requirement…but my boss insists on it?..the groups trainer had never heard of this and said that it was as we said a pointless excersise…its just a silly idea the desk jockey has dreampt up,but as the last poster said…hes calling the shots.

play the boss at his own game… every time you start on a fresh vehicle do at least 15 minutes walk around checks, and when you are finished with it do another check just to make sure it is ok for the next driver.
…

[wheel_nut]

MolePower:
few months ago one of our drivers was pulled by VOSA & when his card & tacho was all looked at there was extra kms on the vehicle tacho the driver couldn’t account for , but knew it had been loaded by the yard shunter, but VOSA then asked him if he could prove it wasn’t him working off the card , so maybe it’s more to do with keeping the vehicles kms accounted for

It isn’t up to him to prove anything, it is a VOSA job to prove he was working.

There is no reason to have to use a card off road and the boss is just being a prick

[toowise]

billybigrig:

toowise:
Like Molepower, we sometimes leave our trucks in a customers premises, (private land ,no public access) to be loaded overnight.

I’d be more concerned with any potential O licence issues than missing mileage

No O licence issues as we already hold a licence for the customers premises as well as our own base

[8wheels]

Coffeeholic:

8wheels:
I’m sure that no shunter would find themself inthis position as there must be a lot of stop time but if you worked a long shift and did loads of small movements you could run out of driving time before your shift was over. What would happen then? Go home early or go over hours on the card. All very well until you get tasked with some duty taking you out of the gates.

For a shunter who never goes out on the road the hours rules don’t apply. This will be more about not having a vehicle showing as being driven without a card in, even though it isn’t a problem, than shunters hours.

My hypotheotical scenario involved a shunter who may occasionally need to drive off the site to do a local run or summat.

[flip]

Coffee & Wheelnut will probably clarify this but when shunting for JS we recorded our work on the rear of paper discs ( no tacho’ in the old Terberg) & when moving digi equipped vehicles round site (over 2 kms to do a complete circuit) we always set the tacho to out of scope mode. Don’t know if that was the right thing to do but it’s what our VOSA training course bloke told us to do.

[simon]

8wheels:

Coffeeholic:

8wheels:
I’m sure that no shunter would find themself inthis position as there must be a lot of stop time but if you worked a long shift and did loads of small movements you could run out of driving time before your shift was over. What would happen then? Go home early or go over hours on the card. All very well until you get tasked with some duty taking you out of the gates.

For a shunter who never goes out on the road the hours rules don’t apply. This will be more about not having a vehicle showing as being driven without a card in, even though it isn’t a problem, than shunters hours.

My hypotheotical scenario involved a shunter who may occasionally need to drive off the site to do a local run or summat.

As soon as you drive on a public road, you loose the off-road lack of controls.
A tacho will have to be in for the whole shift, all tacho rules will have to be complied with.
Although I THINK, if the on-road journey is within 50km range of the depot then UK domestic rules can apply, instead of EU rules.

[wheel_nut]

Simon:

billybigrig:

toowise:
Like Molepower, we sometimes leave our trucks in a customers premises, (private land ,no public access) to be loaded overnight.

I’d be more concerned with any potential O licence issues than missing mileage

What potential ‘O’ licence issues ?
A truck left to be loaded overnight generates no issues, potential or otherwise, that I can see.
Logistics companies do it all day with one set of wagons and all night with another set.

How about the time taken to get back to the depot in the car Simon, or the time taken in a morning to go to work. How about the operators licence and the declaration about where the trucks are based overnight, how about the neighbours objections?

[trukkertone]

too much of this …

[happy_keith]

Simon:
‘…I THINK, if the on-road journey is within 50km range of the depot then UK domestic rules can apply, instead of EU rules…’

So:

a) How come ‘…km…’ within Imperially bound UK?

b) Where are the pro-EU cabbages/advocates when a simple explanation of how and why their foreign prioritised nonsense is clouding domestic expert understanding of how the UK is supposed to function beneath their bureaucracy is sought? Hiding their heads in shame; busy in committee discussing - over our tax-funded expenses - how to ■■■■■■■ us elsewhere or not giving a toss is my guess.

Shoot or ignore the messenger as required, but doesn’t choosing to capitulate getting clarity for how we are to work leave the nation open for more, overly complex damnation?

[banquo]

Vosa rules on drivers hours and tachographs page 9
Exemptions Quote;

“Vehicle operations that take place off the public road or vehicles that are never used to carry goods on a public road are out of scope of EU rules”

Therefore Domestic rules apply;

Thus GB domestic rules page 24
Exemptions Quote ;
“drivers who always drive off the public road system”

As i read it If you always shunt then there is no requirement to use a card or keep records
If you drive occasionally (therefore Mobile worker) you are required to make a record ( on tacho roll or analogue disks for the last 28 days).
Stating that on non driving days- in warehouse, in yard, etc

[lovlyperson]

shunter1:
my employer has told us shunters that we have to put our digi card into a rigid to move it 100 yards,can anyone shed some light on the subject for me,also we all opted out of the WTD & not sure on the law governing this.

As long as you don’t leave the Yard counts Shunting as other Work and not as Driving.Just like Forklift or other Machinery. Shunters are not build to travel on Road,but you can if you need. Its a Machine without Tacho,so you don’t need of use one.
Then,
Shunting has no POA Just Working Time and Break Think on that if you use your Digi card,as you may run over the 48Hour/Week

[lovlyperson]

FLIP:
Coffee & Wheelnut will probably clarify this but when shunting for JS we recorded our work on the rear of paper discs ( no tacho’ in the old Terberg) & when moving digi equipped vehicles round site (over 2 kms to do a complete circuit) we always set the tacho to out of scope mode. Don’t know if that was the right thing to do but it’s what our VOSA training course bloke told us to do.

Yep,Yep,Yep,i know
Got Assessment last December and he started talking a lot.Even about that al.
I just said "You are an idiot! and Assessment was done
Well,he complained about just everything and had the Idea i shall tell the Company Staff how to do it properly. Well,now im not for Shunting good enough,and no Problem with that anymore