Should I mention

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS OWNER AND FLEET OPERATORS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Dear All,

I hope you don’t mind me asking on this side of the forum and not the traditional lorry drivers side of it.

As you are all owners and majority must be employers of some variety in the industry. I was wondering if you could help me understand the other side of the fence, on how I can become truly employable in haulage.

I’ve applied for a small amount of jobs (one’s that seriously interest me in sectors I wish to seriously pursue) now that amounts to about ten in total over the last 18 months. From these applications, I heard nothing back from a couple, a few I’ve heard back but they said thanks but no thanks, which was nice in this day and current employment market.

The other five I have made interview stage and even a second interview in two circumstances, one of them included a driving assessment. I admit I bullsed up that!

However from the interviews with TM’s/Depot managers/Directors and Planner, both in small family and nationwide firms (I don’t mind working for either, have more experience in national/international firms, but my current employment is in a very small independent firm.) I have found the most common questions keep cropping up/potentially ruining my chances of getting a job.

Hence my thread name, should I mention any of the below in further applications.

  1. Biggest question why do I want to give up a professional job for driving :unamused:
    Hahahahahahaha, if only they knew the reality of other industries I’d think they’d see why I want to leave it. But you can’t be that negative in an application/interview!
    In reality the job is incredibly long hours, most weeks you’ll have potentially a shift, if not more shift, that go in excess of 18 hours easily! It’ll usually be 6-7 day working week unless on holiday.
    I try not to mention the truth above, just the job is sendentary and its changing in a way that I am no longer interested in it and that I wish to pursue a new career which interests me greatly in haulage.

  2. Why don’t I want to use my degree anymore.
    Sincerely not interested in my degree field, even though it is a technical and professional one, it just doesn’t give me the buzz like I had at university. However to be honest it didn’t after two years of graduation, hence my completely change to contracting in construction instead.
    So I try to say that in a positive way, in that I have tried it, but it is not for me anymore, truthfully.

  3. Why do I want to stay on Class 2, when I am training to get my Class 1 in October.
    This one throws me, as that is the mainstay of plant/skip work which relies on rigid lorries. As I want to follow that and the money is ok, why would I be concerned whether I have a trailer on the back? If anything the licence enables them to have some flexibility for certain work they may have to undertake, I would have thought?! :open_mouth:

From all of these, one I get laughed out of the office and they were not interested - Never heard from again - Skips
Another was in general haulage - flatbed - with the possiblity of HIAB and Moffet training, impressed in the interviews but messed up the assessment drive - So was another thanks but no thanks.
Another was in general haulage - curtainsiders - impressed in the interviews but again someone more experienced came along on the final hour.
Two were in plant hire firms - Lost one because another came in with a HIAB ticket, fair enough. The other very recent was because the other was more experienced, even though I was told I was the only candidate to start?! :open_mouth:

Based on the above and the stumbling blocks, should I drop the fact that I have a degree from the CV and try to forget the three years I was out of that employment history, as it was 10 years ago that I graduated!

Not sure how I can cover my current employment history though to stray away from current employment experience and only have the limited CV on the driving on weekends.

In essence to get a chance to drive full time now, should I jack all in that I am doing now. Go full commital to agency driving for a year (maybe longer if its as good as the weekend work currently) say and then approach companies for full time work again, having some more valid experience for them?

Maybe the month’s notice I have to give throws everyone off?

So would the agency work route help me with that side of things, as I understand that lorries can’t stand forever. Even though in three of those interviews, we knew the lorries had been standing idle for over a month before I came on the scene with my CV/application/interview!

I am currently training for my Class 1, FLT, HIAB and Moffett over the next six months (which should get my DCPC out of the way) to see if that will make me more employable.

Can’t think of any more things I can do now to make me more employable to date, so wondering what are employers really looking for in their drivers?

As at the moment when I get a chance to ask for feedback, I’m being told over the phone that I am coming across excellent in my interviews and as a person etc but I’ve either been replaced by people with a ticket or more experience?!

Thanks for reading and any help you can advise with regards to what employers are really looking for.

C

2

Option 1
Don’t go for advertised jobs, go looking for companies doing the kind of work you are interested in and cold call them. Find someone with a truck you have a license to drive and offer your serviced as an of sider, nights, weekends anything you can. To go with them and lend a hand doing what every you can, as well as a bit of driving and learn the ropes.

Option 2 bulls**t your way into a job, start with the one you would least like to work for and learn what to say by the mistakes you make, by the time you’ve been to 3 or 4 you should have the hang of it.

Its mainly about your attitude, if someone sees you willing to get of your backside and have a go, you’re more likely to get a chance. Don’t get palmed of with the secretary, keep going back every few weeks.

Good luck

Jeff…

3

Hey Jeff,

Bar 2 advertised jobs on the internet, all the rest and latest one (we all thought I was going to get…bar me), were all cold calling and speaking to someone that wasn’t the secretary. :wink:

As for the sider, would be great if I had regular type of job with constant hours, but we don’t we run martini hours anytime, anywhere. :laughing:

However in my free time I’m going out with Dad, whenever he’s working and I am free and he can take me along (not very often) and a friend from here again who’ll take me along mon-fri when I am not working and try to give me lots of hints/tips/training in new experiences. I learn the ropes there where I can.

Which I am so grateful for and so tell prospective employers I’m doing that where I can and of course the agency work for the driving side of it!

Option 2 I’m not confident in, as I’m not good at lying :frowning: So i’d be worried I’d be found out in no time at all and sacked etc! As for interviews, I’m getting better experience as time gets on with them of course. But I must’ve bullsed up the last one seriously, as nearly everyone thought I had it in the bag, bar me when I hadn’t been called by the third day I was supposed to and when I was, it wasn’t the news we wanted!

I think my attitude is hard working and willing to try and be good at anything I’m asked, can’t promise I always will be…but I’ll give it a bloody good go!

Thanks for “avoid the secretary” advice and I’ll take the luck if you don’t mind too! I think I am going to need it, as it seems like Iike I’m going to have a harder longer run than a typical newbie at the moment.

Thanks again for taking the time to read my post and help me out!

I’ll bear all what you have said in mind seriously and hope someone will one day give me a chance to prove myself and in turn I repay that chance in all seriousness.

As my father always says I can’t sell you my experience, but without it, you are ■■■■■■ until someone takes a big chance on you boy…couldn’t be closer to the truth, could it :laughing:

C

4

Well, firstly a months notice
Is no good to me, i expect a driver to
Give a weeks notice then be able to start, i have a truck
Standing which is costing me
Money and
Disappointing customers , aecond we take age into
Consideration , nobody under 25, and you also would need 2 yrs experiance, and if you had a nice clean job , you probably wouldnt get in either, theres no point
Me starting you and explaining everything for you to leave a week later, its a waste of
My time and yours ! Good luck, the right attitude to work goes a long way, far too many drivers today expect everything for doing very little, for which i blame the agencies on mostly, if you been on agencys for a while that will put people off.as we have had too
Much damage and lazy buggers on the agencys !

5

Thanks for taking the time to give me that reply, richmond, that was truly insightful to how the other half think.

The last three jobs I’ve been too, they’ve had the lorry standing a month before I even put the CV in to them as a speculative interest and then saying I’m on a month’s notice. This supposedly didn’t worry them, their words not mine!

So when they come back and someone can do it quicker, it throws you…but I understand that a lorry needs to keep moving to earn money and I’m not that niave.

I then think, why has it taken you 6 weeks to get that lorry on the road and how much has that truly cost you in all honesty.

Then I have to think I haven’t got the job, so I shouldn’t be concerned in reality. It’s not my business or livelihood, as in my wages aren’t on the line with them, by them not maximising their assets.

If I was working for them, of course it would be different, as I would be trying to work my most efficient to keep that lorry turning a profit to pay my wages.

I pass your second consideration, I’m over 30 and held the class 2 licence for 7 years now and used it in anger on weekends in a continuous permanent role for four years and on agency for 1 year now.

The other two years I didn’t use it as I was working on the Olympics, time dependent shifts you understand and working in tunnels for London Underground/Crossrail. Hence a lot of work is weekend and nights only, so couldn’t drive then unfortunately, as also working during the normal week.

Now a few on this forum, have seen me in my full time work. I work in all manner of weird places, mainly derelict places (and I mean the nasty ones that have been closed for years and have signs of tramps/drug addicts residing there, no facilities whatsoever) and usually I can be found in a live foul sewer or on a proper clay filled building site too…so even though you may have a degree, does not mean you have or do a nice clean job.

Not being cheeky, but I bet on a daily basis you work in a cleaner environment than me! That is until i return to my office for a day or so before the next site visit comes around and I start it all over again

So I defintely pass that one ■■■■ easy.

So the first proper misconception of a degree job, that I have to overcome with employers then. Interesting, never thought employers would think like that just because you have a degree. I have to bear that in mind seriously and try to portray that politley I work in ■■■■ environments most worse than the majority of all sectors of haulage.

As for explaining, my commitment to a company is not in question in my head. As I’m speculatively applying to companies I wish to try and work for and want to go committed into a full time job. I’m sensible enought to not bother doing one week and then leave for somewhere else not in my nature!

Its a complete waste of my time and effort, before even yours is considered. And in reality puts my home at risk, so I’m no way interested in hopping around jobs and my current driving CV even kind of shows that I’d like to think.

Do you mean I have the right attiude, as I definitely don’t expect everything as I’m bottom of the experience chain.

However I do expect a little guidance to not ■■■■ up your business and some respect where its due and of course I expect to do the same to my employer. No point f and jeffing unless its in jest or something is going seriously wrong.

As for agency, its the only way I can keep my experience up and keep my work ethic going at the moment, as they are the only ones willing to give me a chance to prove I can work in driving.

I always took it, if I got asked for continually by one client for the days I could work and even asked if I could come in on days when I couldn’t work (in case I was off), I’d have thought that was a good sign, I wasn’t lazy etc.

Especially as I don’t take the mickey like the full timers do at the current place and boy do they have fun damaging lorries too!

Always interesting to go back in on a weekend morning, see the last lorry I drove from a couple of weeks ago/or last week and then find all the war damage that’s happened since accordingly. And this is from the perm week full timers, as they don’t bring agency in until weekend for the extra demand. :open_mouth:

And yes I am shocked how the company can afford the repairs and don’t discpline them in all seriousness full timers or agency damage alike. But of course you can show me the other side of the coin, so I don’t doubt it doesn’t happen either.

Just a shame I get tarred with the same brush as the rest of the muppets, before I get a chance to show I am genuine. :frowning:

So finally, I’ve got to quit my full time work to get rid of my long notice period and get in on an agency to cover me. But not for too long and fight to get a full time job in no time before I am viewed as lazy and a damage monger.

The perspectives and misconceptions are getting really interesting for me, in that they want me to come for interviews!

As in they call me after I’ve dropped a speculative CV/application in, yet, they may view me with suspicion because I have a degree and a full time job and work on agency.

Yet they’ve already been told that on paper, before they even called me, in all truth and seriousness!!

So why bother wasting their time and mine, saying we have a position you may be interested in, come in and have two 1 hour long interviews/chats etc?!

Very confusing this game of chess even with my experience :imp:

Thanks Richmond this has been a huge eye opener to how hard its going to be to get a full time opportunity even when I am not a “true green” newbie!

C

6

Two notes on that, firstly the truck may have been stood for a month, but now they jave work for it, now ! And secondly you will be probabably taking a pay cut, this isnt the best paying work out there, so most employers would be skeptical about somebody taking somebody on who would automatically be taking a pay drop, as most of the staff we have are looking for a pay rise! Good luck with it all keep at it there are always jobs outthere you just need to be in the right place at the right time

7

Unfortunately I also have the stigma of higher education, which isn’t in an applicable field. I have also got a vast amount of experience in road transport. If you click on my avatar and read some of my other posts you’ll quickly get the idea.
On one of my returns from a far of land I got work straight away at an agency ( inside 24 hours from getting of the plane )

I kept my ear to the ground and rang round some mate and with in a month was doing Morocco. The job didn’t pay a much as the agency, and it was trip money as well do your own tax etc, but I was happier doing that than 3 trucks a day.

At one interview I was told by the secretary at a small country haulage firm that if I was going to lie I should at least make it believable. However by the same afternoon I was driving to Adelaida in a Road Train ( I now live in Australia ).

By what you have said I and going by my own experience I would say you would be better of going for an informal chat rather than an interview. ( again get back to the cold calling ) Have your gear in the car be ready to go there and then, and sort out the rest from there.

Sitting here as an outsider not fully knowing your personal information it’s hard to make judgments.

I understand that you have to give a month notice, but if you add up your holiday pay sick leave etc and get a bit inventive you could sort something out.

Again good luck, keep banging on doors…

Jeff…

8

Hey Richmond thanks for confirming that viewpoint, yeah all 3 companies had work for them supposedly all the time, as I asked that question what happened, was I replacing a driver or was it a new lorry brought in and waiting to go out e.g. livered or load tests needed for HIAB etc.

However before even attending the interview I did do a financial check on all of them them in case they were going to hit the wall, in the immediate future etc.

richmond:
And secondly you will be probabably taking a pay cut, this isnt the best paying work out there, so most employers would be skeptical about somebody taking somebody on who would automatically be taking a pay drop, as most of the staff we have are looking for a pay rise! Good luck with it all keep at it there are always jobs outthere you just need to be in the right place at the right time

As for the second point, I’ve already taken that a massive pay cut to do what I am doing right now! :neutral_face:

It was just over £10k without the extra benefits added that I used to get, that would’ve taken it to about £13k pay cut compared to the current terms and conditions I am on.

Ironically some of these job I applied for would have been quite good pay rises to what I was on now, really and that’s as first time jobs!! They would have been alright hours for alright money. In all honesty, I would have been really happy/ecstatic with those offers and be able to do what I want to do with my free time/out of work time activities/see wife/see family etc. :open_mouth:

No-one ever asked me what I was on (I’d have been to tell them excatly what I was on). :confused:

They just asked what wages I had thought about asking for or what I was looking for and I threw my amount into the ring each time (These figures were based on what similar drivers I personally knew in the roles I was looking at. With amounts they said newbies would be paid for initially starting out), which didn’t really shock anyone as being outrageous at the tables either!

Scary isn’t it, supposed professions actually being paid less per hour than some lorry drivers!!!
I’m not the only one to be affected as I’ve heard/actually know of it in other industries, especially when you look at salaries being paid to hours expected to work…hence my original comment of 18+ hour days on 8 hours salary. Those types of things really do happen in other industries unfortunately to a lot of people daily.

So there you have it I even pass the likely second clause that should’ve caught me out for not getting a chance either! I was going to jobs for potential pay rises.

Gosh that’s even more depressing knowing that we’re running out of potential reasons that could be holding me back, that are supposedly not actually personal about me :frowning:

Thanks for the feedback though, it’s really appreciated for you giving me your time to help.

C

9

Dont believe everything drivers tell you, what they may earn may be differant to what they actually tell you…

10

Hey Richmond,

Learnt that one already bud, well told that by my father.

However having family in it, don’t get you lies. Being shown original P60’s should carry you through too. And then basing it on figures that were stated by employers in previous interviews, means I’m putting in realistic figures.

Sadly some of those figures talked about are NOT pay cuts for me, so the wages in some of those interviews were for a pay RISE to my personal circumstances!

Needless to say no ■■■■■■■■, some “professional jobs” still pay less than some driving jobs. Unfortunately there are unscrupulous employers in all sectors.

Thanks for the advice, hopes it helps someone else out too.

C

11

Bit like drivers, every employer is different and has different criteria, perspective and approach to hiring.

I’ve had a couple of drivers with degrees, I’ve offered a job to a lad of 21 on the grounds of giving someone a break ( he turned it down on the grounds that some days he’d be out in a 7.5 instead, though earning the same money. Couldn’t see sticking with agency delivering into an RDC as better than the chance to get experience driving UK and abroad in a ‘nice’ sector, each to their own).

It takes me around 6 weeks from saying yes to someone, to being able to get them out full time, so personally the whole month notice makes no odds to me, but it would to most employers.

All I can say is keep going round and seeing people, eventually someone will give you that all important first break.

12

Hey Albion,

Thanks for taking the time to post and confirm the degree drivers, went to see a local firm Friday morning, on the way to work, who I have contacts with and asked if they would take the time to assess the CV and see where I am going wrong etc.

So hopefully mid week I can call them and get some feedback on major negatives in that CV.

Speaking them on Friday about the last interview, they said they could not understand why they wouldn’t take me on after discussing terms and conditions etc, as in why did they waste their own time and what I offered to do with regards to notice.

So as you say each to their own, just because I thought I was being accommodating to get in the door, like your example with the young lad, sometimes it will never be good enough for some people.

In that last interview I may have driven 4x4 pickup with a trailer and I didn’t have a problem with that, what a silly boy to miss out on that experience at his age, purely being a little snobbish to a 7.5t! :open_mouth:

I’m being a bit limiting with the sectors I want, but I know I don’t want to do general/tramping/store/RDC within reason or absolutely necessary to survive, then it’d be different of course!

If I can, I want to stick to driving that stays within the area of construction industry but I’d do any driving within that Class 1, 2, 7.5t etc) I’d be very happy with my lot. I’d consider some nights out doing that if the job entailed it, but again general tramping is not yanking my chain to be honest.

Like you say, that first start will come, but when who knows now :smiley:

Again thanks for all of you gents who have taken the time out of your days to post a reply to help me and accomodated my question, which isn’t or normally associated in this side of the forum.

PS. I think after a long hard consulation of the CV at home, I will drop the degree for good and even remove some of my professional employment history as in other jobs from 7 years ago etc. If they need further clarification at a later date, then of course I will supply it, if they need to do security checks accordingly etc.