setting up

toby1234abc:
Hammer and Jimmy2loads,you are entitled to your opinion,of which i will respect,if i dont know what i am talking about,how did i keep my own truck going for 10 years,in Europe,there was a weekend ban on the home registration of the vehicle,depending where you were based,you had to park up,while the other countries would be moving and getting home,i managed to get through that,and ran north and south regardless,due to my paper work,and what i did to it,i was never fined for this.,to give you a clue,it was to do with an export document,and residents permits and IVA tax paperwork relevent to each country,a 10,000 litre of cherry on my farm helped out,if stopped the fine would be 700 pounds,and that was the end of the affair,pay up,then move on,you could not be fined twice for the same offence.
How would i know that you had a truck with no sign writting,and why would i put my name and address on my cab,while running close to the line,it would be up to who stopped me,to get my details,and a bag of broken glass,that i would throw on the cab floor,to show i had all my papers stolen,in a previous made up cab break in,would suffice while transiting europe,and get asked for the paper work,it worked all the time,how would they prove it other wise,no proof.Maybe delayed for a few hours,but they never get a penny off me,as i am a scrooge.

So, in other words, YOU couldn’t make it pay without running bent. Yes? :unamused:

That was in the 1990`s,dont worry,the UK HMR&C did catch up with me in the end,as they say,crime does not pay.

But, that doesn’t mean that because you ran bent, and mixed with people who ran bent - that EVERYBODY must run bent.
They might just be better at running a profitable business than you were :wink:

It may be hard to believe,but i kept my tachos clean,as a normal control would entail a simple conversation of “Disc,cmr,previous days driving”,if that was all in order,why would they want to dip the tanks,unless it was a full on Douane control,that would make the heat beat a lot faster,but sometimes,it was only the cab or the load to be inspected.
A French driver saw me filling up,about 3 hours from the port,he took the fuel receipts to the Douanes in Caen,when i got checked out by them,i had already flushed clean the tanks with white,the look on their face while holding the receipts,i told them it was another driver,no proof,let go.

toby1234abc:
It may be hard to believe,but i kept my tachos clean,as a normal control would entail a simple conversation of “Disc,cmr,previous days driving”,if that was all in order,why would they want to dip the tanks,unless it was a full on Douane control,that would make the heat beat a lot faster,but sometimes,it was only the cab or the load to be inspected.
A French driver saw me filling up,about 3 hours from the port,he took the fuel receipts to the Douanes in Caen,when i got checked out by them,i had already flushed clean the tanks with white,the look on their face while holding the receipts,i told them it was another driver,no proof,let go.

Well, that’s OK then. When I go burgling I never take more than a couple of small items, because if I get chased I can dump them in a river so no harm done, eh? :unamused:

And wear plastic bags on the shoes,and some duct tape to tie up the victims. :smiley:

AS1:
hi

Just wondering if anyone would be able to give some advice on setting up a proper haulage business? As in where to find good regular work? I’ve heard a few people say that other firms just sub-contract off some huge companies and just run business like that, however with the rates that are offered by large companies I dont understand how its feasible? On average big companies only offer £1.15 - £1.17 per mile?

Could anyone give some advice please?

Thanks

In answer to your question, AS1: It is very difficult to get good, regular, well paid work. But it is not impossible, if you look after your customers and put their needs first. It is possible to run legal, and still make money (because we do it. And while our units are signwritten, our trailers are not, if anybody is interested). But you do need your foot in the right door at the right time. Ask around, talk to people, go and introduce yourself to anybody you know who might be able to help. But remember it’s basically about selling yourself, and what you can do for a customer that somebody else might not do as carefully, or as well. Perhaps it will help you to do some subby work first. But mind you work out your costs, and don’t take on more than you can handle (as in more work than you can handle, and too many debts to buy a truck - perhaps rent first and see how it goes?)

A few tips for you, which are mostly commonsense, but so often these things get forgotten in the heat of the moment:
Be reliable - if you are going to let anybody down tell them well in advance so they have time to make alternative arrangements. If you are going to be late, phone ahead and let people know so they can (hopefully) work around it. Be courteous to everyone you meet, whether it’s the cleaner sweeping the floor or the MD of the company. That cleaner might just be the MD’s wife. :slight_smile:

I hope this is helpful. Best of luck.
Helen

That is sound advice,and well thought out Helen,it was quite common for the driver to eat in the same canteen as the top brass of the firm where i would be loading/unloading,and sit next to them,no pretentious chat,just eat,and go,while working in europe.Imagine that in the UK,a driver sat next to the Tesco MD,having a meal.

Thanks Toby.
I don’t think the question mentioned European work in the original question? It is definitely harder to manage your costs on the European work! We are trying to break into the European market. But breaking even is seriously hard. Let alone making a profit. But I am sure some must be doing it. Somehow! :slight_smile:

the last time i logged in to trucknet was beggining of last 2010, its never changed!!
everyone just slags everyone off and not a good word to say about anyone!!

user - helen stevens asked a question politly and and got a ripping for it… :open_mouth:

yeah people should do theyre own research and learn on theyre own, but if you dont ask then you dont get!

a reasonable response would be short and sweet e.g. “check and read the forums and other websites” not a slagging off!!
OR is that just a steroetypical response from a trucker…Rob K??

you know all this stuff here about why you don’t repeat. Are aware it would of just been easier to link some book and a web site less of your time taken up too :laughing:

chappy261:
the last time i logged in to trucknet was beggining of last 2010, its never changed!!
everyone just slags everyone off and not a good word to say about anyone!!

user - helen stevens asked a question politly and and got a ripping for it… :open_mouth:

yeah people should do theyre own research and learn on theyre own, but if you dont ask then you dont get!

a reasonable response would be short and sweet e.g. “check and read the forums and other websites” not a slagging off!!
OR is that just a steroetypical response from a trucker…Rob K??

But if you don’t read the thread from the beginning, it is easy to get confused, very confused chap!

AS1:
hi

Just wondering if anyone would be able to give some advice on setting up a proper haulage business? As in where to find good regular work? I’ve heard a few people say that other firms just sub-contract off some huge companies and just run business like that, however with the rates that are offered by large companies I dont understand how its feasible? On average big companies only offer £1.15 - £1.17 per mile?

Could anyone give some advice please?

Thanks

That was the first polite question bud!

chappy261:
the last time i logged in to trucknet was beggining of last 2010, its never changed!!
everyone just slags everyone off and not a good word to say about anyone!!

user - helen stevens asked a question politly and and got a ripping for it… :open_mouth:

yeah people should do theyre own research and learn on theyre own, but if you dont ask then you dont get!

a reasonable response would be short and sweet e.g. “check and read the forums and other websites” not a slagging off!!
OR is that just a steroetypical response from a trucker…Rob K??

No, you engage brain before opening mouth and use the tools and resources already at your disposal to see whether the topic has been previously discussed. And let’s be honest “I’m thinking of setting up as an O/D, anyone got any advice?” is hardly going to be a new topic on an owner driver forum is it. :unamused:

Perhaps the mods should make a sticky thread on the topic to save the same question being asked over and over again every week. :bulb: :bulb: :bulb: :bulb: :bulb: :bulb: :bulb: :bulb: :bulb: :bulb: :bulb:

Put it to mods then and get them to do a sticky because the question obviously offended you in some way then ‘when’ not ‘if’ the question is asked again a polite reply would be “read the stickys”, manners cost nothing!!

Also she is a newbie to the forums so the nievety maybe got the best of her!

chappy261:
Put it to mods then and get them to do a sticky because the question obviously offended you in some way then ‘when’ not ‘if’ the question is asked again a polite reply would be “read the stickys”, manners cost nothing!!

Also she is a newbie to the forums so the nievety maybe got the best of her!

Call it naive if you like, I like to think I give people the benefit of the doubt. I speak to people the way I would like to be spoken to myself. As you said, manners cost nothing, and I don’t really see why anybody would bother to post some ‘help’ that is not helpful! Each to their own, but if I’d got that sort of reply to my first question, I wouldn’t have been back. Getting a kick out of making people feel unwelcome is not my cup of tea.

Well said Helen and thanks for your earlier response to the OP question. It’s always good to get a view from someone in the business delivered in a positive manner. As someone who searches the forums regularly to get a feel for what the industry is like for anyone wanting to go it alone I find it useful to see new opinions, even if it is a question that’s repeated regularly.

What I don’t get is why Rob K is so vociferous towards anyone who has the temerity to ask for advice about setting up on their own. Anyone would think he was getting charged every time someone posted a “thinking about setting up as an OD”. In fact, why bother posting at all if it’s always to have a pop at the poor guy who’s looking for a bit if advice.

Unfortunately there are a few people on here who I think have ‘had their fingers burned’ in road haulage and seem to think "if I can’t do it nobody can’!! This is only IMHO, but from an observational point of view that would seem to be the case given the vitriolic replies goven by a couple of forum members.

My opinion is; if your setting up as an owner driver to work as a full time subbie for the likes of Gold Star, Maritime etc etc “don’t bother”!! the only people who get rich in the world of full time subbies is the firm ‘running’ them. If you feel the need to have a go on your own find some decent paying work, do some proper costings and meke certain you are well enough funded and give it a go. Take no notice of the detractors on here who say “you’ll never make any money”, they are just bitter for whatever reason.

It’s your money, it’s your choice, just PLEASE don’t jump into the ‘container subbie’ trap.

Ross.

To the original poster. Work is hard to come by. When I say “work” I mean well paid, regular work paid on time by the client for your hard work and labour. Start up costs these days are astronomical, and there is also a lot of red tape to hinder you. Personally, my advice would be to do your homework THOROUGHLY first, procure some good work (if you can find it). Do not run on other peoples fuels cards, do not get suckered into “guaranteed” earning promises. As Bigr250 says, its all a con! Its all designed to sucker you in so they can make money out of you.

Everyone is in business to make money, and they will do so by whatever means are neccessary. If you DO intent to start up, start off very small ! If you have enough capital, buy a truck and trailer outright so that if things do not work out, you can simply sell up and get out of it. Do NOT go for a brand nerw all singing all dancing tractor unit, with all the bells and whistles. Keep it simply, clean and ensure you have enough money in the bank (Min 8100 GBP) to satisfy VOSA.

I understand completely, that people on here are very quick to shoot you down in flames when the same old question is asked. I have had it myself, but, use your head, do the maths and homework, then if you seriously have enough work to make it pay, give it a try. But bear in mind previous advice. Also worth noting, is allow yourself enough funds to run your truck for at least 90 days prior to being paid by your customers. Cashflow is the biggest downfall of new start ups. Consider factoring your invoices initially, but also be wary of factoring companies. Some will rip you off.

Good luck, and I hope it works out for you if you are serious.

wyatt_erp:
To the original poster. Work is hard to come by. When I say “work” I mean well paid, regular work paid on time by the client for your hard work and labour. Start up costs these days are astronomical, and there is also a lot of red tape to hinder you. Personally, my advice would be to do your homework THOROUGHLY first, procure some good work (if you can find it). Do not run on other peoples fuels cards, do not get suckered into “guaranteed” earning promises. As Bigr250 says, its all a con! Its all designed to sucker you in so they can make money out of you.

Everyone is in business to make money, and they will do so by whatever means are neccessary. If you DO intent to start up, start off very small ! If you have enough capital, buy a truck and trailer outright so that if things do not work out, you can simply sell up and get out of it. Do NOT go for a brand nerw all singing all dancing tractor unit, with all the bells and whistles. Keep it simply, clean and ensure you have enough money in the bank (Min 8100 GBP) to satisfy VOSA.

I understand completely, that people on here are very quick to shoot you down in flames when the same old question is asked. I have had it myself, but, use your head, do the maths and homework, then if you seriously have enough work to make it pay, give it a try. But bear in mind previous advice. Also worth noting, is allow yourself enough funds to run your truck for at least 90 days prior to being paid by your customers. Cashflow is the biggest downfall of new start ups. Consider factoring your invoices initially, but also be wary of factoring companies. Some will rip you off.

Good luck, and I hope it works out for you if you are serious.

good sound advise, thankfully there are good people out there that do give folk half a chance…i was nearly suckered into the containers, if your gona do it then do it as wyatt_erp says…do it on the cheap, its nice having scania v8 (some may disagree, lol) or a fh16 etc with all the lights and chrome BUT that doesnt pay the extra pennies per mile, keep it simple at first, i seen on autotrader a big XXL MAN TG-A for around £8-9k, it may have a few miles on it but it will do for your first 2 years!

also look at future costs like the LEZ, if your gonna be running in and out of london as from jan (i think) 2012 the vehicle will need to be euro4 emmisions!
theres a lot to consider, but as posted in the better previous threads…homework and research!!

There are echos in this thread, the same 3 or 4 echos every time Rob posts anything. If anybody was wrong it was me, a simple search of Google will pull up the same companies or agencies offering work.

If you have to ask where to find work, then I said in my own words, that they are not suitable Owner Driver material. Rob offered a link to the search facility, that in my eyes was his sense of humour, he didnt actually say anything until he was attacked by a few. I advise a search of North Surrey Haulage and Jonah, it will take a long time to read, and Robs response at the beginning was very similar

Becoming an owner-driver

An owner-driver is any person with the skills, licence and vehicle to undertake hire or reward work in road transport, usually operating as a sole trader. Some owner-drivers subcontract work to other drivers or employ other drivers, but still count themselves as owner-drivers because they retain a driving as well as managerial role. Many owner-drivers undertake work as subcontractors for large road transport operators such as Maritime Transport, Hanbury Davis or Wincanton, which now owns Hanbury Davis.

Sometimes these companies will lease the vehicle to the owner-driver and may be able to obtain fuel at competitive rates. However payment tends to be low. Courier and parcels firms also use owner-drivers. Others find a local niche where personal relationships and customer service are at a premium. One issue if working for just one company is whether you are employed or self-employed for tax purposes. You have to demonstrate that you are in charge of the work you undertake in order to be self-employed.
What you need to be an owner-driver

A vehicle. There are a number of ways to finance a vehicle including cash, hire purchase, renting or leasing.

An operator’s licence (O-licence). This is granted by the Traffic Commissioner once you have demonstrated that you can fulfil undertakings with regard to:

A standing level of finance;

An understanding of and procedure for maintaining roadworthiness including daily and weekly checks, six-weekly inspections and a clean MoT pass rate.

A suitable place to use as an operating centre where you can base your vehicle.

An HGV driving licence and any other qualifications needed to work in your sector such as ADR.

A CPC holder. The Certificate of Professional Competence must be held by you or someone you have contracted to oversee your operation as a regular and involved consultant.

Any breach of these undertakings, such as roadside prohibitions, financial difficulties, convictions or a lack of CPC holder may call your licence into question. Any changes to your operation must be communicated to the Traffic Area Office. Any change in vehicles used or operating centre must be with permission.

How to manage your business

Setting up as an owner-driver can be challenging and some prefer to employ agencies to establish their business credentials for them such as M&i (UK). It also costs a considerable amount — some calculate start-up costs at around £25,000.

You will need the following:

A business plan. This should be as detailed as possible. It needs to explain the market in which you will operate, the services you will provide, definite and potential clients, competition, strengths, weaknesses and a three-year forecast.

Strong cash flow. What you owe is less important than your ability to pay debts. Work out how you will have enough money, week by week.

More than one client. Unless you are dedicating your vehicle to a specific road transport operator, ideally no one client should provide more than 10% of your income.

A grasp of taxation, National Insurance and VAT law for the self-employed. Or a good accountant.

A niche, either local or sectoral. The most successful owner-drivers find a niche which cannot easily be filled by large national brands, for instance, solid waste disposal.

Help and support for owner-drivers

TruckNet UK: a community website for truck drivers.

CPC Association: a new organisation offering guidance for CPC holders.

The Owner Drivers Resource Centre: a website dedicated to addressing the needs and concerns of owner-drivers with most of its information coming from others in the field.

Road Haulage Association (RHA): A professional trade association which represents the interests of road haulage and offers help and advice.

For general business advice try Business Link. HMRC (HM Revenue and Customs) runs seminars for the self-employed.

To get a feel for the business try the Operator’s Voice blog.

This advice comes from the owners of this forum, some of which will be lifted from the forum posts. Many people on here will tell you, that advice is flawed as a new start haulier with a new truck, on Wincanton, Maritime or DHL is almost bound to end in business failure.

To be your own boss, in my opinion, you need to be able to control your own costs and profit margin, at the three examples above your earning potential will be limited by the traffic clerk looking for an easy life, sat in Ipswich, Hams Hall or Felixstowe. Upset him on a Monday and you may as well park up for the rest of the week.