lankyphil:
'… lad, not long passed his test, drops a trailer … With the suspension all the way up on his unit … just got a shrug and a “so what?”
That’ll be a progressing by-product of Blair’s brilliant idea of Cool Britannia type of diversity in the late 1990’s and a reality behind Cameron’s ongoing 2013 version of ultra-liberalism, mate 
Why bother ‘giving-a-stuff’ - it’s his right 
newmercman:
If the trailer is too high and the 5th wheel doesn’t contact the rubbing plate, then it needs lowering as the pin could be sitting on top of the jaws, it will give the impression of being secure, but it isn’t.There has to be contact between rubbing plate and 5th wheel to ensure proper coupling.
^ This.The best way to miscouple an artic is to try to couple the thing when the nose of the trailer is sitting too high.The best way to avoid that is to at least make sure that there’s good gap left between the landing legs and the ground when the trailer is dropped and that the air suspension is set at it’s normal running level when doing that if it’s on air.Then it’s just a matter of wether the operator has been sensible enough to make sure that the unit has lifting ramps fitted behind the 5th wheel.
newmercman:
Count yourselves lucky you don’t work at my place, every single trailer I hook onto has the legs wound down to the point that they are clear of the 5th wheel.Our units, like all lorries here, only have an air dump on them, they can’t be lifted.
This winding the legs until the trailer is clear of the 5th wheel thing dates back to the pre air ride days, when it’s icy in winter it would be almost impossible to back under or pull out from a trailer unless it was not putting pressure onto the unit.
However, since the 80s there has been air suspension, with an air dump feature, so they could wind the legs down until they hit the ground, dump the air out of the unit and pull out nice and easy, but oh no, because they used to do it like that 50yrs ago, that’s how they still do it.
So because of that, when coupling up to a trailer, I spend 5mins on slow wind freezing my ■■■■ off or getting eaten alive by mozzies, depending on the time of year.
BOCs
I don’t get this. 
The only way that you’ll keep weight on the unit is by leaving a gap between the legs and the ground anyway,not by winding the legs into the ground,thereby keeping all the weight on the unit,when dropping the trailer.Which is the correct way to drop a trailer to make sure that it’s sitting low enough,without having all the aggro of either having to lower the trailer or raise the unit,when it’s recoupled.That’s always applied the same wether the unit is on air or not.
Carryfast:
newmercman:
Count yourselves lucky you don’t work at my place, every single trailer I hook onto has the legs wound down to the point that they are clear of the 5th wheel.Our units, like all lorries here, only have an air dump on them, they can’t be lifted.
This winding the legs until the trailer is clear of the 5th wheel thing dates back to the pre air ride days, when it’s icy in winter it would be almost impossible to back under or pull out from a trailer unless it was not putting pressure onto the unit.
However, since the 80s there has been air suspension, with an air dump feature, so they could wind the legs down until they hit the ground, dump the air out of the unit and pull out nice and easy, but oh no, because they used to do it like that 50yrs ago, that’s how they still do it.
So because of that, when coupling up to a trailer, I spend 5mins on slow wind freezing my ■■■■ off or getting eaten alive by mozzies, depending on the time of year.
BOCs
Which is the correct way to drop a trailer to make sure that it’s sitting low enough,without having all the aggro of either having to lower the trailer or raise the unit,when it’s recoupled.That’s always applied the same wether the unit is on air or not.
No its not. And its not “aggro” dumping the air, its professionalism and taking care of your unit. Thats why my running ramps are clean and my mud guards are not scratched to ■■■■.
You are right when it comes to yank tanks but over here if everyone dropped and hooked up properly using air then there would be no grease on the trailer lip and everyones runner ramps wouldnt ever ever come into contact with a trailer.
I always lower legs to the ground then back off 1/2 a turn on the handle. If you leave the legs right to the ground it’s sometimes difficult to pull the pin.
Vehicles are designed to run up underneath trailers without using the air. It’s how they were when they ran on springs and why they have guide rails to lift the trailer.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Carryfast:
newmercman:
Count yourselves lucky you don’t work at my place, every single trailer I hook onto has the legs wound down to the point that they are clear of the 5th wheel.Our units, like all lorries here, only have an air dump on them, they can’t be lifted.
This winding the legs until the trailer is clear of the 5th wheel thing dates back to the pre air ride days, when it’s icy in winter it would be almost impossible to back under or pull out from a trailer unless it was not putting pressure onto the unit.
However, since the 80s there has been air suspension, with an air dump feature, so they could wind the legs down until they hit the ground, dump the air out of the unit and pull out nice and easy, but oh no, because they used to do it like that 50yrs ago, that’s how they still do it.
So because of that, when coupling up to a trailer, I spend 5mins on slow wind freezing my ■■■■ off or getting eaten alive by mozzies, depending on the time of year.
BOCs
Which is the correct way to drop a trailer to make sure that it’s sitting low enough,without having all the aggro of either having to lower the trailer or raise the unit,when it’s recoupled.That’s always applied the same wether the unit is on air or not.
No its not. And its not “aggro” dumping the air, its professionalism and taking care of your unit. Thats why my running ramps are clean and my mud guards are not scratched to [zb].
You are right when it comes to yank tanks but over here if everyone dropped and hooked up properly using air then there would be no grease on the trailer lip and everyones runner ramps wouldnt ever ever come into contact with a trailer.
Firstly you’ve misquoted what I said in which I was actually disagreeing with the idea that what nmm was describing was correct on any type of suspension set up.IE it’s never right to do as nmm was describing which seemed to say that they were winding the legs into the ground to raise the trailer off the fifth wheel when it was dropped.
How does ‘raising’ the unit to couple up to a trailer that’s been left too high equate to ‘dumping air’ which would actually lower the unit even more not raise it thereby making the problem of a height difference between the trailer and the unit even worse.
The problem as described is that of a unit being ‘raised’ on it’s air suspension and then the legs wound into the ground when ‘uncoupling’.Which then obviously leaves the trailer too high for when it’s recoupled by a unit on air set at normal running height.
Which,as I said,then leaves the issue of all the aggro of having to adjust the unit suspension height to get the correct height to lift the trailer with the unit when coupling being that such lifting of the trailer by the unit is essential in making sure that the trailer is sitting with all it’s weight on the fifth wheel and the landing legs are off the ground when the pin enters the jaws of the coupling.That’s assuming that the trailer hasn’t been dropped too high for even the unit’s suspension to cope with when raised to it’s full extent which is a possibility in the case of different type units.For that,as I’ve said,it’s best to make sure that the legs are only wound down to a level which leaves a good gap between them and the ground and that the suspension is set at normal before dropping a trailer.As for the mudguards being scratched they won’t be touched by the trailer if the ramps are there because the ramps lift the trailer before it gets near the mudguards and it’s obvious that you actually want dirty greased up ramps not clean ones if they’re doing their job which,as nmm rightly said,is to make sure that all the weight of the trailer is sitting on the unit’s fifth wheel turntable before the pin enters the coupling. 
However in none of those cases is there any issues whatsoever concerning dumping air to lower the unit.That would only be the case if a trailer had been dropped too low for the ramps to pick up.Not too high which is the subject of this topic.
m1cks:
I always lower legs to the ground then back off 1/2 a turn on the handle. If you leave the legs right to the ground it’s sometimes difficult to pull the pin.
Vehicles are designed to run up underneath trailers without using the air. It’s how they were when they ran on springs and why they have guide rails to lift the trailer.
But we dont run on springs anymore and smelly greasy battered trucks should be a thing of the past.
FarnboroughBoy11:
m1cks:
I always lower legs to the ground then back off 1/2 a turn on the handle. If you leave the legs right to the ground it’s sometimes difficult to pull the pin.
Vehicles are designed to run up underneath trailers without using the air. It’s how they were when they ran on springs and why they have guide rails to lift the trailer.But we dont run on springs anymore and smelly greasy battered trucks should be a thing of the past.
The idea of making sure that the legs aren’t wound to the ground applies in all cases and air is no different and you’re not supposed to raise the unit when dropping trailers.In which case you probably won’t need to raise the suspension height either in that case when re coupling.The only reason that you’d need to adjust the air suspension when coupling up to a trailer is because some idiot has dropped the thing too high.In which case,as I’ve said,that’s a recipe for someone to eventually mis couple a trailer when they pick it up.Other than that the only other possiblity is that someone has dropped it too low.Which would then mean dumping air to lower the unit or wind the the thing up high enough in crawler on the winding gear in the old days of steel suspension or if it’s too low for the air to cope with.However a trailer that’s been dropped too low isn’t as dangerous as one that’s been dropped too high from the point of view of a mis couple.
Its so simple.
To hook up to a trailer you dump the air to the ground and go underneath, then raise the ■■■■■■■ up and then hit the pin.
To drop a trailer, you wind the legs to the ground, pull off the pin, dump the air and then pull out.
And the mud guards are higher than the runner ramps which is why if you look at most fleet trucks the mud guards are ■■■■■■ because drivers drop and hook up without using the air.
Im a crap driver so i always get out and check the fith wheel and trailer ate touvhing before coupling it.
FarnboroughBoy11:
Its so simple.
To hook up to a trailer you dump the air to the ground and go underneath, then raise the [zb] up and then hit the pin.
To drop a trailer, you wind the legs to the ground, pull off the pin, dump the air and then pull out.And the mud guards are higher than the runner ramps which is why if you look at most fleet trucks the mud guards are [zb] because drivers drop and hook up without using the air.
So let’s get this right because you’re worried about scratching the tops of the mudguards and/or getting any grease on the ramps you go under a trailer with a massive height mismatch which you then sort at the last second by raising the unit to ( what you guess is ) the correct height as the pin goes into the coupling.As I said that’s a recipe for someone to mis couple a trailer.The unit is supposed to ‘lift’ the trailer ‘onto’ the fifth wheel as it reverses under it preferably using the ramps fitted behind the fifth wheel which are designed to do that job without letting the trailer hit the mudguards.The more grease that gets on those ramps the better. 
kr79:
Im a crap driver so i always get out and check the fith wheel and trailer ate touvhing before coupling it.
I always reversed up to the trailer then made sure that the trailer was sitting at around the mid to lower level of the ramps before going any further.In the days of steel suspension if there was a mismatch between the two then that meant some work with the winding handle especially if the zb trailer was too low. 
However ‘touching’ isn’t always the same thing as lifting.
lankyphil:
Just picking my trailer up off a bay at the yard, young lad, not long passed his test, drops a trailer on a bay next but one to me. With the suspension all the way up on his unit.Told him what he was about to do, just got a shrug and a “so what?” Couldn’t grasp the idea of the next driver might miss the pin…
I see a good deal of older so called ‘experienced’ drivers do it many times, stop complaining about the lad, he will learn, unlike some.
Carryfast:
FarnboroughBoy11:
Its so simple.
To hook up to a trailer you dump the air to the ground and go underneath, then raise the [zb] up and then hit the pin.
To drop a trailer, you wind the legs to the ground, pull off the pin, dump the air and then pull out.And the mud guards are higher than the runner ramps which is why if you look at most fleet trucks the mud guards are [zb] because drivers drop and hook up without using the air.
So let’s get this right because you’re worried about scratching the tops of the mudguards and/or getting any grease on the ramps you go under a trailer with a massive height mismatch which you then sort at the last second by raising the unit to ( what you guess is ) the correct height as the pin goes into the coupling.As I said that’s a recipe for someone to mis couple a trailer.The unit is supposed to ‘lift’ the trailer ‘onto’ the fifth wheel as it reverses under it preferably using the ramps fitted behind the fifth wheel which are designed to do that job without letting the trailer hit the mudguards.The more grease that gets on those ramps the better.
are you taking the ■■■■?? I dont guess at all, the unit lifts the trailer off the ground before i back on to the pin.
Again, the mud guards are higher than the running ramps.
It doesnt matter, its just on your unit there will be grease everywhere and the back end will be battered to ■■■■ and mine wont.
Its a shame as i think ive agreed with almost every post of yours since the jimmy saville thread, which includes 40mph single carraige ways, cyclists etc etc but not this
Culina’s new Merc’s don’t have ramps before the 5th wheel so we have to use the air suspension to swap trailers, when we were on steel I always left a small gap between the legs and the ground when dropping but now we are on air I don’t see the need and wind the legs all the way down then lower the suspension as I pull out so I don’t take the mudguards off due to the lack of ramps.
Juddian:
newmercman:
I don’t check visually, never have, never will.If the trailer rubbing plate makes contact with the 5th wheel and the handle goes in when the pin hits the jaws, then it’s locked in tight, a tug test will confirm this.
If the trailer is too high and the 5th wheel doesn’t contact the rubbing plate, then it needs lowering as the pin could be sitting on top of the jaws, it will give the impression of being secure, but it isn’t.
There has to be contact between rubbing plate and 5th wheel to ensure proper coupling.
I thought exactly the same.
Then one day one of our lads where i worked at the time dropped a trailer on Londons Embankment after having travelled all the way from Bristol, none of us could work out what had happened he’d done everything right, this is some 25 years ago.
Anyway, a few months later i had to pick up a loaded trailer that had been dropped on uneven ground, still on steel springs here, no probs the trailer had been dropped low enough, so i backed under and the 5th wheel locked in…but something didn’t sound quite right it clicked as aginst that reassuring clunk, did a tug and got it sure enough, but the incident above came back into my silly head, so i dragged the trailer down onto the level got out and had a look, sure enough daylight between the 5th wheel and rubbing plate, king pin sitting on the jaws.
I was genuinly shocked as were all the lads at our depot, none of us would previously believe that it could happen like that with a fully loaded trailer but there was the proof and it happened to me personally, it can be dropped low enough but if it goes in at even slight angle it can trigger the jaws without the pin beng in the right place.
Since that day i’ve always had a quick look whilst attaching the clip that the plate and 5th wheel are flush.
Uneven ground requires a different approach, for the reason you point out 
Carryfast:
newmercman:
Count yourselves lucky you don’t work at my place, every single trailer I hook onto has the legs wound down to the point that they are clear of the 5th wheel.Our units, like all lorries here, only have an air dump on them, they can’t be lifted.
This winding the legs until the trailer is clear of the 5th wheel thing dates back to the pre air ride days, when it’s icy in winter it would be almost impossible to back under or pull out from a trailer unless it was not putting pressure onto the unit.
However, since the 80s there has been air suspension, with an air dump feature, so they could wind the legs down until they hit the ground, dump the air out of the unit and pull out nice and easy, but oh no, because they used to do it like that 50yrs ago, that’s how they still do it.
So because of that, when coupling up to a trailer, I spend 5mins on slow wind freezing my ■■■■ off or getting eaten alive by mozzies, depending on the time of year.
BOCs
I don’t get this.
They wind the trailer clear of the unit so that all the weight and friction is off the unit, so they can pull straight out, it would make sense with mechanical suspension, but we’re on air and the air dump facility achieves the same result.
old_n07:
Culina’s new Merc’s don’t have ramps before the 5th wheel so we have to use the air suspension to swap trailers, when we were on steel I always left a small gap between the legs and the ground when dropping but now we are on air I don’t see the need and wind the legs all the way down then lower the suspension as I pull out so I don’t take the mudguards off due to the lack of ramps.
This is the correct way to do it with air suspension, coupling is obviously the same process in reverse
FarnboroughBoy11:
Carryfast:
FarnboroughBoy11:
Its so simple.
To hook up to a trailer you dump the air to the ground and go underneath, then raise the [zb] up and then hit the pin.
To drop a trailer, you wind the legs to the ground, pull off the pin, dump the air and then pull out.And the mud guards are higher than the runner ramps which is why if you look at most fleet trucks the mud guards are [zb] because drivers drop and hook up without using the air.
So let’s get this right because you’re worried about scratching the tops of the mudguards and/or getting any grease on the ramps you go under a trailer with a massive height mismatch which you then sort at the last second by raising the unit to ( what you guess is ) the correct height as the pin goes into the coupling.As I said that’s a recipe for someone to mis couple a trailer.The unit is supposed to ‘lift’ the trailer ‘onto’ the fifth wheel as it reverses under it preferably using the ramps fitted behind the fifth wheel which are designed to do that job without letting the trailer hit the mudguards.The more grease that gets on those ramps the better.
Again, the mud guards are higher than the running ramps.
It doesnt matter, its just on your unit there will be grease everywhere and the back end will be battered to [zb] and mine wont.Its a shame as i think ive agreed with almost every post of yours since the jimmy saville thread, which includes 40mph single carraige ways, cyclists etc etc but not this
Now assume that someone like the driver referred to who is the reason for the OP’s topic has dropped the trailer with the suspension on the unit raised which could therefore cancel out that lifting effect of raising the suspension when coupling up to the same trailer again depending on how high the idiot has actually dropped it.
IE The start of the topic is all about someone dropping a trailer too high by firstly raising the suspension before dropping it then to add insult to injury they’ve wound the legs into the ground.When either in the case of steel or air suspension it should be the same procedure of just wind down the legs leaving a decent gap between the legs and the ground which should,in most cases,result in the correct dropping and re coupling situation of a trailer which is lower than the height of the fifth wheel when it lands on it’s legs as it’s dropped from the trailer and in most cases will provide that same ideal situation as the unit is reversed back under the trailer at which point it lifts it back off of it’s legs again.I don’t ever remember anyone,including me,giving a zb about what happened to the tops of the mudguards or getting grease on the fifth wheel ramps which actually just shows that they’re doing their job and that applied both in the case of both steel suspension and then the later air suspension types.As I said the only time that you’d need to use the air suspension adjustment is if someone has dropped a trailer too low.In all other cases it should be dropped at a height which the unit will lift without raising the air suspension.However if it has been dropped too high then the trailer will still need to be lowered to make sure that it’s low enough for the unit to actually lift it off of it’s legs ‘before’ the unit is reversed under it.