how is it that HMRC say unless you own the truck you drive and have an operator licence you are employed, but the majority of taxi / private hire cars owned by companies are driven by self employed drivers. the airport type cars advertise every week in our local rag,
Drivers for taxi/private hire are liable for running costs, usually have to pay for fuel too and get paid after they’re deducted and they’re liable for all risks. Self employed truck drivers don’t get paid out after the trucks running costs have been taken off and have no risks associated with the operation of the vehicle. Regardless though just because its advertised doesn’t mean its legal.
I would say that HMRC are doing you a favour in prompting you to get a real job or start a real business.
You have no control over the work you do, no liability for the work you do, no business costs in operating for the work you do. In fact, a prostitute has more rights to be called a self employed person than a greedy thick driver has.
Honked:
I would say that HMRC are doing you a favour in prompting you to get a real job or start a real business.You have no control over the work you do, no liability for the work you do, no business costs in operating for the work you do. In fact, a prostitute has more rights to be called a self employed person than a greedy thick driver has.
Wow, there is a statement!
Not all of us Ltd. Co. drivers are in it because we are greedy. I’ve been doing it for the past two years because it was one of the few ways I would ever be able to build up to putting my own on the road. Now to take your point.
I do have control over the work I do. If I don’t like the work, I don’t go back and there are no repercussions from it.
I do have liability for the work I do. If I make mistakes I am infact more liable than you are because the operator can sue me for damages, where they can just fire you and have to suffer the losses.
I do have costs associated with the running of my business. Accountancy costs, business banking cots, Public Liability Insurance costs, costs associated with finding the work I do and of course the costs associated with paying myself when I cant find work to do. I also have to pay for all my own training, workwear and PPE.
I have more rights to call myself self employed than a prostitute because my work and the way I choose to do it doesn’t amount to either a crime, or aiding and abetting in the commission of a criminal act.
Self employed working may not be the right way for you but it isn’t just an tactic used by money grabbing scum who like to skirt the law. For a great many of us its the only way we can earn a wage to live on and still fund out dreams. Don’t judge until you are in possession of all the facts.
hotel magnum:
how is it that HMRC say unless you own the truck you drive and have an operator licence you are employed, but the majority of taxi / private hire cars owned by companies are driven by self employed drivers. the airport type cars advertise every week in our local rag,
They say that because without an operators licence and not owning the truck its assumed you will be either working for an employer or an agency ie your income is only from one source. To be self employed your income has to be from more than one source. A taxi drivers fares are different every journey…
You are LTD mate because you end up with more money in your pocket than you would PAYE.
Nothing to do with funding dreams, it’s all about maximum dough in your pocket. My old man told me once " You can’t bullsht a bullshtter son ". 
Honked:
a prostitute has more rights to be called a self employed person than a greedy thick driver has.
“What time do you want me to start?” is very different to “I will start at…”
It’s good that you have PLI, accountant, etc but I notice you missed out professional indemnity insurance, membership of any professional bodies or even who you can supply to fulfil your ‘contract’ in the event that you are unable to. Running your own professional business is a bit more than charging £1 above PAYE rates and relying on (abusing) the tax system to look like you are earning anywhere near a proper wage.
Prostitutes at least, have the decency to charge more per hour when they are getting shafted.
Honked:
Running your own professional business is a bit more than charging £1 above PAYE rates and relying on (abusing) the tax system to look like you are earning anywhere near a proper wage.
As ever cash is king but run a ltd company and thats not coming your way, yes there are plenty of other dodges like running other bank accounts in different names ect but a paper trail is hard to shake off nowadays…
Honked:
"Prostitutes at least, have the decency to charge more per hour when they are getting shafted.
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eagerbeaver:
You are LTD mate because you end up with more money in your pocket than you would PAYE.Nothing to do with funding dreams, it’s all about maximum dough in your pocket. My old man told me once " You can’t bullsht a bullshtter son ".
If its nothing to do with funding dreams, how come a man who had £1237 to his name and his only real asset on credit 19 months ago is now debt free and about to put a unit on the road?
If its all about ‘maximum dough’ in my pocket why have I invoiced £51,000 in that 19 months and only taken home less than £30k in that time including subsistence allowance and fuel expenses? Instead I have spent over £6000 on training to get me ready to run my own vehicles. Re-invested profits into equipment etc.
So your old man is right. It’s hard to peddle bovine excrement to another seller of cow-pats. But its easy to prove an idiot for what he is when you have the numbers to back you up.
Honked:
“What time do you want me to start?” is very different to “I will start at…”It’s good that you have PLI, accountant, etc but I notice you missed out professional indemnity insurance, membership of any professional bodies or even who you can supply to fulfil your ‘contract’ in the event that you are unable to. Running your own professional business is a bit more than charging £1 above PAYE rates and relying on (abusing) the tax system to look like you are earning anywhere near a proper wage.
On more than one occasion I have refused a start time unless the client has agreed to pay more. I have not started at a time I didn’t want to start at for over a year.
I took the decision at the time of forming my company that while PLI was a good idea and very necessary, Professional Indemnity Insurance was a rather large expense to cover a very minor risk. I took a gamble and so far its paid off, but in business sometimes you have to take a chance and as a limited company I have the cheapest Professional Indemnity Insurance out there, they can’t sue for money the company doesn’t have. Of course in the near future that will be re-assessed because the chances of a claim will drastically increase when its my vehicle, my loads etc.
Supplying someone else if I cant do the work: First that isn’t part of my job or my agreement with my clients. I fill the cost gap between full time employee and agency, with the understanding that the agency option is always there if necessary. So far, in 19 months, I have failed to work 1 day due to sickness, and that was for an agency anyway.
Membership of Professional bodies: Hows the Freight Transport Association? Professional enough?
Honked:
Prostitutes at least, have the decency to charge more per hour when they are getting shafted.
Very good. That made me giggle.
How to end up with nothing?
Easy…Start with £51,000 and buy a truck
Leave him to it Pierre.
We have our very own Alan Sugar here! 
nsmith1180:
If its nothing to do with funding dreams, how come a man who had £1237 to his name and his only real asset on credit 19 months ago is now debt free and about to put a unit on the road?
Don’t worry mate, when you buy your own unit the debt free thing will not last, so you should be back to normal soon.
Can you not think of a better type of business to invest in ? 
Prostitution has already been mentioned, ok maybe not for you, but if you had the right equipment I sure as hell know what the safer bet would be. 
A very nice man is “setting him up” with his own truck. A very nice man. A very,very nice man.
nsmith1180:
I do have control over the work I do. If I don’t like the work, I don’t go back and there are no repercussions from it.
You are told when to start, what to drive, where to drive in many cases how to do the job in a specific manner the company wants. You are a million miles away from someone saying “Can you deliver this load to X by Y” and then being left to get on with it choosing what vehicle to use, who will drive it, being in full control of how to do the job and I doubt very much you get the bill for using additional fuel because of the route you choose, traffic conditions or your driving style, a bill for a tyre if there is a blowout, a bill for a breakdown, the bill for the insurance, MOT, servicing and road tax of the vehicle, the cost of the job if a customer refuses the load.
nsmith1180:
On more than one occasion I have refused a start time unless the client has agreed to pay more. I have not started at a time I didn’t want to start at for over a year.
Dont do that when you go O/D, you’ll find it’ll be quite the opposite…
nsmith1180:
If its all about ‘maximum dough’ in my pocket why have I invoiced £51,000 in that 19 months and only taken home less than £30k in that time including subsistence allowance and fuel expenses? Instead I have spent over £6000 on training to get me ready to run my own vehicles. Re-invested profits into equipment etc.
How much tax did you pay on that £51k? You’ve claimed by your own admission fuel expenses which you couldn’t claim as an employee and no doubt some of the subsistence allowance wasn’t claimable as an employee either both of which mean you paid less tax than you would on PAYE and therefore have put ‘maximum dough’ in your pocket.
You have an accountant and one of their jobs is to minimise your tax liability so I ask you how is that not doing it to put maximum dough in your pocket?
Are you VAT registered? If you are then that is a third example of you doing it to put maximum dough in your pocket. Nothing wrong with doing it but at least be honest about it.
And no, the Freight Transport Association isn’t a professional body, its a trade body. Insitute of Chartered Engineers, Institute of Engineering and Technology, General Medical Council and The Law Society are examples of professional bodies.
Impressive figures, I’m very tempted to pack in my slave labour, trouble free, worry free existence in employed work.
But then I dug into your figures and it scared me.
£51,000 / 19 months = £2,684 per month. Avg of 22 working days per month = £122 per day. Average of 10 hours per day = £12.20 per hour. You say that includes subsistence and fuel so lets say £11.00 per hour.
You have to pay your own holidays so another quid off to bank.
A tenner an hour is about double what a good beggar will earn in Manchester. He fiddles his tax too and eats crap from the bins. Gotta love social mobility in the UK.
Heh-heh. Quite funny he bleats on about it when his hourly rate seems to be £5/hr less than I was charging a decade ago. Methinks this’ll be another OD that doesn’t last the first year out.