Just for a bit of discussion; is it good advice for someone to continue their test when they have definitely failed on the reverse exercise? I emphasise “definitely” as in running over the line, hitting a cone or just not making it into the box.
My two penneth is that I don’t encourage folks to continue. My reasoning is this; having got the reverse wrong I doubt very much if the candidate’s head is in the right place to drive properly. This can then lead to a sheet full of faults that wouldn’t normally be there. The other side to it is that the examiner will simplify the route if he can see undue stress going on so the experience that is sometimes claimed to be valuable is not realistic.
I never discourage anyone from continuing the test - it’s totally their choice.
I have had people come to me for an assessment having failed on reversing and they present their sheet with whatever faults. More often than not those faults are not present on assessment.
I am aware of the argument - you’ve paid for it, you may as well do it. I just believe this can lead to being thoroughly demoralised.
As LGV Trainer has said, it would be good if the reverse was a separate test.
Why not have the reverse at the end of the test, simulating arriving at a drop…the trailer can also be dropped in the “bay” aswell.
I can see the idea of having the reverse as a seperate test but how would it be judged if the drive was a pass and then the reverse a fail…does a candidate still pass and get their licence?
Do they tell you straight away if the reverse is a fail? I’m sure many have thought they’ve failed and go out in the road with no expectations. Less pressure makes them give a better drive and they end up passing.
My instructor recommend to complete the test even if you think you’ve failed.
I don’t think there is a answer to this, its a bit like saying what would you do if you caught someone burgling your house. Some people might lose it and decide to jack in instantly. Others might think along the lines of pressure is off, might as well complete the drive to get the jist of it for next time.
You could fail the reverse and put in a perfect drive meaning you only need to brush up on one area.
No they don’t tell you if you have failed. Also repeating the same minors can total up to being a fail.
Peter Smythe:
My two penneth is that I don’t encourage folks to continue.
Pete
I’m not with you on this one Pete.
My thinking is that although the test has been failed at the start on the reverse. The candidate must concede that on this time the test has gone but treat the test road drive as an extension of training and look at it as a mock test in preparation for the next time.
It’s also good practice to say to the examiner “I know I’ve failed but I would like to carry on for experience and hopefully it will be beneficial for when I come back for my retest”
You may get the same examiner and maybe remember you and your positive attitude.
I’d disagree. When I passed my C+E with you Pete I thought I’d failed because how I did the coupling/uncoupling procedure since I was all over the place with it. I went out on the road thinking I’d failed it and so how I drove wouldn’t really have any impact and just see how it comes out so I was more relaxed. Turns out I hadn’t failed it at that point and passed.
I know the definition was definitely, however I still think it’s good experience of a scenario as you feel like the pressure has lifted.
Do they tell you straight away if the reverse is a fail? I’m sure many have thought they’ve failed and go out in the road with no expectations. Less pressure makes them give a better drive and they end up passing.
They wont volunteer that information as a rule. In my 1st post I made it clear that my thinking applies only to absolute definite fails - not possibles.
Remember also that an examiner may well calm a candidate down, and some of this can entail altering the route to make it straightforward. So I don’t see how this is much use to anyone.
But these are just my thoughts and, as I said, I never tell anyone not to continue. It’s up to them.
I did knock the cone over on my test, Hersden 1986, the examiner, the fearsome Mr Mummary said “Well, you saw what you did, do you still want to carry on?”, and I thought well, ■■■■■■■■ to it, I’ve paid for the drive so I will, I went out on test, convinced I had already failed, made several minor errors but overall gave him a fairly smooth ride apart from when I had to do a genuine emergency stop to avoid a Ford Capri being chased by the Police and he slammed head-first into the windscreen (I asked him three times if he was sure I didn’t want to take him to the hospital, he clearly had signs of concussion), we got back to the test centre and he said “Do you want another attempt at the reverse?”, so I said yes, promptly messed it up again, then he did the Q&A thing that they did before theory tests, and then he slammed the book shut with an enormous bang and said, and these were his exact words “I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and believe me it’s a very big doubt”
So obviously, from my own experience I’d always say to carry on and never say die, it’s not over 'til the fat lady sings etc.
That sort of thing used to happen in the 70’s and 80’s but it’s a lot more to the book now and there would be hell on if anyone got to here that someone had had the opportunity to redeem themselves.
I happen to think that’s not a bad idea and I’ve seen it happen. But not in recent years.
On my 2nd test I blew it 3/4 the way through. at that point I just carried on and enjoyed the rest of the ride .
Back at the test station we did the other stuff and Foxy asked how I thought I did.
I explained where I failed and the reason his answer was gob smacking.
You had seen the problem, weighed up all possibility’s took extra care and continued with extreme caution noting everything around you…
I passed
It just shows you can Cook up continue and still pass
I have no problem with that at all - but, with the greatest respect, that isn’t what I started off talking about. Which was a DEFINITE fail on reversing.
I always try to get folks to carry on regardless during a test as there is a fair bit of tolerance on the drive. But the reversing is much more cut and dried which is why I think it’s different.
I don’t yet drive for a living, I’m planning a career change when I get my licence.
For me, therefore, another hour of driving practice in a truck would be worthwhile experience regardless of failure. I would therefore carry on.
If faults emerge because a driver is stressed or demoralised through a reversing failure at the start of the test then those faults are presumably not very far beneath the surface. If all it takes to bring them out is the stress of the reversing test then perhaps the trainee needs to get them fixed instead of them being buried just beneath the surface. It is therefore arguably valuable to know this, and the effects that stress might have on the driver’s safety on the road.
I thought I might have failed because I may have touched the yellow line, I even mentioned it to the examiner. He just said “I wouldn’t worry about it” and we carried on with the drive. It is quite possible that this was his way of reserving judgement to see how the rest of the test went. With many faults I suspect examiners have the discretion to judge them minor or major, and they will base their decision on their overall feel for the candidate’s safety and competence.
It would be harsh for an examiner to take a basically sound driver and fail them for the sake of a millimetre or two. It would be equally inappropriate to take a chancer who got lucky on the day and give them a pass when their driving style leaves much room for doubt as to their safety on the road.
Peter Smythe:
I have no problem with that at all - but, with the greatest respect, that isn’t what I started off talking about. Which was a DEFINITE fail on reversing.
Perhaps my post hadn’t appeared before you wrote this (I’m on pre-mod, you’ll find it above), but messing up the reversing isn’t a definite fail. Absolutely not, not from MMTM, not from anecdotals, not from the bloke in the RDC, not even from my own instructor who told me that messing up the reverse was a definite fail, but from my own experience. I knocked the pole over, messed up my second chance and I still passed.
My two pennorth, I’d always advise anybody to soldier on to the bitter end. Even if they don’t pass, then the experience of undertaking a full driving test can only make them better prepared for the re-test. Funnily enough, because I was convinced I had failed before we even left the test centre, all of the pressure was off and I know I did give the examiner a (mostly ) smooth ride.
I think probably most of the reason I passed was that I was a bit grovelly and subservient from the word “Go”, calling the examiner “Sir” rather than “mate” for example, and maybe this shameless bum-licking paid off.
But this is never a fail. You have to cross the line before it’s a serious fault.
I take your point about the faults being close to the surface and that’s interesting. I’m going to give that some consideration before I respond to that. It’s possibly one of the more interesting observations so far.
My 1st test I failed the reverse & didn’t continue cause I was truly devastated, 2nd attempt I ballsed the reverse again but went on the drive & wasn’t bothered by it at all & wound up with 5 minors…
2nd attempt I ballsed the reverse again but went on the drive & wasn’t bothered by it at all & wound up with 5 minors…
That’s great - but you clearly hadn’t screwed up the reverse as badly as you had judged. And I believe that’s the biggest danger. Which is why I was specific about the definite causes of a serious fault.