Rich_T:
Obviously I’ve been watching the nightly debates up here on the referendum and have to say that if the yes side had Mike C then they’d be ahead by a mile. Youve put a stronger case forward for independence than any of the politicians have managed lol. Then just give the no side Carryfast and everyone would be falling over themselves to break ties with leatherhead
LOL !!! Always knew i was destined for greater things !! 
Carryfast:
I think my case has been from the start that Scotland has way more resources at its disposal than population to support which is its advantage.Which seems to fit in with Mike C’s comments there.
It has but the way you come across doesnt help, most of your posts have nothing to do with Scotland, just how much you despise the union, last i looked you were onto Norman of french invaders, the referendum is now, nothing to do with what happened hundreds of years ago in southern England.
Carryfast:
Mike-C:
Scotland has only 8.3% of the
UK’s population. 8.3%! Remember this important figure… 8.3%
Also has …
32% of the land area.
61% of the sea area.
90% of the fresh water.
65% of the natural gas production.
96.5% of the crude oil production.
47% of the open cast coal production
81% of the untapped coal reserves
62% of the timber production
46% of the total forest area
92% of the hydro electric production
40% of the wind wave and solar energy production
60% of the fish landings
30% of the beef herd
20% of the sheep herd
9% of the dairy herd
10% of the pig herd
15% if the cereal holdings
20% of the potato holdings
…obviously 100% of the Scotch Whiskey industry.
Also has…17 billion pound construction industry
13 billion food and drink industry
10 billion business services industry
9.3 billion chemical services industry
A 9.3 billion tourism industry
7 billion financial services industry
5 billion aeroservice industry
4.5 billion pound whiskey exports industry
3.1 billion pound life sciences industryScotland still has 350 million pounds worth of textile exports
And has 25% of Europes wave and wind energy potential.
And finally is blessed to have 1.5 trillion pound worth of oil
and gas reserves.
All
of this, yet only 8.3% of The UK’s population.At a brief glance that looks correct to me, you’d have to check a few of them to see if it is 100% correct.
That looks a very good position to be in from where i’m sitting.Even Stevie Wonder could see that it would take a total idiot to not be able to make that situation work.Although the idea that the place needs the EU and a larger population might just fit that description.
That’s handy, the place is full of total idiots in the form of politicians.
As far as polls v the streets it just depends where you are. I was tipping around Glasgow airport this week & asked a few locals how they were voting, 7 of 10 said they weren’t! Couldn’t be bothered as it would make no difference to them, they’d get shafted anyway. 2 yes 1 no. Based on that unscientific poll the yes vote would win by a big margin.
Mike-C:
BillyHunt:
Mike-C:
Scotland has only 8.3% of the
UK’s population. 8.3%! Remember this important figure… 8.3%
Also has …
32% of the land area.
61% of the sea area.
90% of the fresh water.
65% of the natural gas production.
96.5% of the crude oil production.
47% of the open cast coal production
81% of the untapped coal reserves
62% of the timber production
46% of the total forest area
92% of the hydro electric production
40% of the wind wave and solar energy production
60% of the fish landings
30% of the beef herd
20% of the sheep herd
9% of the dairy herd
10% of the pig herd
15% if the cereal holdings
20% of the potato holdings
…obviously 100% of the Scotch Whiskey industry.
Also has…17 billion pound construction industry
13 billion food and drink industry
10 billion business services industry
9.3 billion chemical services industry
A 9.3 billion tourism industry
7 billion financial services industry
5 billion aeroservice industry
4.5 billion pound whiskey exports industry
3.1 billion pound life sciences industryScotland still has 350 million pounds worth of textile exports
And has 25% of Europes wave and wind energy potential.
And finally is blessed to have 1.5 trillion pound worth of oil
and gas reserves.
All
of this, yet only 8.3% of The UK’s population.At a brief glance that looks correct to me, you’d have to check a few of them to see if it is 100% correct.
That looks a very good position to be in from where i’m sitting.And yet they still cannot get above 50% in the polls! Makes you wonder why doesn’t it?
I’ve read what the Polls say, and i’ve read whats happening on the Streets. They appear to be different ?
Maybe the question as to what ‘the polls’ said at the last election as opposed to what actually happened regarding the SNP vote might be a clue.In addition to the question as to how does an SNP electoral majority turn into a Unionist win in a referendum.
Rich_T:
Carryfast:
I think my case has been from the start that Scotland has way more resources at its disposal than population to support which is its advantage.Which seems to fit in with Mike C’s comments there.It has but the way you come across doesnt help, most of your posts have nothing to do with Scotland, just how much you despise the union, last i looked you were onto Norman of french invaders, the referendum is now, nothing to do with what happened hundreds of years ago in southern England.
It has everything to do with what happened centuries ago in being how ‘the Union’ started and it’s the same type of federalist logic which keeps the democratically and economically flawed idea going.Just as in the case of our EU membership.
BillyHunt:
As far as polls v the streets it just depends where you are. I was tipping around Glasgow airport this week & asked a few locals how they were voting, 7 of 10 said they weren’t! Couldn’t be bothered as it would make no difference to them, they’d get shafted anyway. 2 yes 1 no. Based on that unscientific poll the yes vote would win by a big margin.
I would imagine Pollsters know their job and how to poll. But whatever is happening, it went from…“its a question for Scotland”…just a few short weeks ago, and in the last fortnight/ ten days all the English poloticians have stepped up a gear and done a lot of behind the scenes lobbying and going up to Scotland to actively lobby support for a NO campaign.
Carryfast:
Maybe the question as to what ‘the polls’ said at the last election as opposed to what actually happened regarding the SNP vote might be a clue.In addition to the question as to how does an SNP electoral majority turn into a Unionist win in a referendum.
This is really easy, at the last election, there was something like a 50% turnout, in the referendum theyre expecting around 85% (though 97%) are registered. So, in the last election nearly half the country didnt vote because they couldnt be bothered or because it makes no difference to them. Now throw in all the extra voters, plus the 16 & 17 year olds and everything changes. Also remember that not everyone who voted SNP wants full independence, as you’ll have seen in various interviews people voted SNP because they were disillusioned with the other parties, what you’ll find is that a lot of them would rather have Devo max (hate that word).
Carryfast:
It has everything to do with what happened centuries ago in being how ‘the Union’ started and it’s the same type of federalist logic which keeps the democratically and economically flawed idea going.Just as in the case of our EU membership.
I don’t think the average Joe on the streets wants a history lesson. Its a pretty simple question for most, if you feel disenfranchised and want more say and more local accountability then vote YES. If everything is going great and you’re happy with it all the vote NO ?
Carryfast:
It has everything to do with what happened centuries ago in being how ‘the Union’ started and it’s the same type of federalist logic which keeps the democratically and economically flawed idea going.Just as in the case of our EU membership.
It has everything to do with Scotlands history but you seem keen on banging on about independence for the South East, and things that happened down there. Have you ever even been to Scotland and spoken to people up here as you seem very knowledgeable on that we want and should or shouldn’t do?
Hope they will say YES. For the best of everyone. For the best of themselves. Breaking up from Westminster will show that even the union that was established centuries ago can fall apart if it is managed unfairly. Managed for the profit of someone who has no interest other than steal from people who hoped for better future. It may also give strength in vote to leave the EU. Scottish people have the same right to demand independence from the UK as those in the UK demanding independence from the EU.
Hope that Scottish people will not vote NO due to the fear that was sown in their soul by those who blackmail them ( RBS, John Lewis etc. ), those who try to hold them in ransom.
Stay strong Scots.
MisterStrood:
Hope they will say YES. For the best of everyone. For the best of themselves. Breaking up from Westminster will show that even the union that was established centuries ago can fall apart if it is managed unfairly. Managed for the profit of someone who has no interest other than steal from people who hoped for better future. It may also give strength in vote to leave the EU. Scottish people have the same right to demand independence from the UK as those in the UK demanding independence from the EU.
Hope that Scottish people will not vote NO due to the fear that was sown in their soul by those who blackmail them ( RBS, John Lewis etc. ), those who try to hold them in ransom.
Stay strong Scots.
+1
Mike-C:
whatever is happening, it went from…“its a question for Scotland”…just a few short weeks ago, and in the last fortnight/ ten days all the English poloticians have stepped up a gear and done a lot of behind the scenes lobbying and going up to Scotland to actively lobby support for a NO campaign.
That’s probably because they know that independence for Scotland means the end of the Union because what’s left of it would lose its credibility and validity.With at least the implication of the return of an independent seperate English nation which has been dismantled by an invading alien aristocracy over Centuries. To the point where now UK law doesn’t allow any official recognition of the nationality of English.
IE It’s likely to be the possibility of the rise of English nationalism,resulting from a possible Scottish yes vote,that is bothering them,not just what Scotland decides to do. 
Rich_T:
Carryfast:
It has everything to do with what happened centuries ago in being how ‘the Union’ started and it’s the same type of federalist logic which keeps the democratically and economically flawed idea going.Just as in the case of our EU membership.It has everything to do with Scotlands history but you seem keen on banging on about independence for the South East, and things that happened down there. Have you ever even been to Scotland and spoken to people up here as you seem very knowledgeable on that we want and should or shouldn’t do?
I’m actually keen on banging on about the main issue which is all about democracy and which applies as much here as it does there.IE the idea of the UK federation not only affects the democratic accountability of the Scottish government to its electorate.It also applies in the case of the accountability of the English government to the English electorate.In which case yes it’s obvious that support for English nationalism by implication also means support for Scottish nationalism because the two things and the reasoning for them are directly related.
Rich_T:
what you’ll find is that a lot of them would rather have Devo max (hate that word).
I think Gordon Brown will hate that word too round about now
Carryfast:
Happy Keith:
‘…Scottish Independence …Your Thoughts…’After hours at the wheel chewing this over & in summary as an Englishman:
1 I am a little jealous that the Sweaties have a more respected national identity and their [zb] in a better sock than us English - eg., whose national flag has been liberally manipulated to represent either football and/or political hooliganism
2 If Scotland get a ‘yes’, then no more (Jock enabled) Labour party in power and Cameron resigns/gets fired - leaving Farage with an easier job of achieving liberation from the EU that Euro-sceptics crave with a more amenable & representative Tory working with Our Nigel as their leader
3 If Scotland returns a ‘no’ - then Salmond goes hang, Milliband wins next election with a liberal coalition, the entire Union becomes doomed to Brussels’ demands (eg., more of the extreme, federalist and non-representative DCPC-type bolleaux)
Or to put it another way both the English and the Scottish have the chance to finally turn the defeats of Harold and Wallace into a victory by taking our respective nations back.But unfortunately it looks as though there are too many who support the federalist ideology of the European invasion.
Which isn’t really surprising being that the nationalist cause is lumbered in this case with two no hopers like Salmond and Farage and the contradiction contained in their respective policies of being federalists when it suits them and nationalists when it doesn’t.
Sorry bud, leave their defeats out of this!
Mike-C:
I would imagine Pollsters know their job and how to poll. But whatever is happening, it went from…“its a question for Scotland”…just a few short weeks ago, and in the last fortnight/ ten days all the English poloticians have stepped up a gear and done a lot of behind the scenes lobbying and going up to Scotland to actively lobby support for a NO campaign.
Yes, that tells you everything you need to know, if Cameron, Milliand and the other one reckon independence is a bad idea, then it’s a pound to a pinch of ■■■■ that it’s a good idea.
Scotland could have the greatest opportunity in History here to form the perfect Social (rather than “Socialist”) state.
Alas, History has a knack of dropping the ball on the cusp of such opportunities.
The vote will most likely go 48/52 “against”, which is better than 48/52 “for” - even if you are one of those voting “Yes”.
John Major won the 1992 election - because the electorate feared odds-on Labour more than they feared being stitched up by the Tories again - which duly happened later that same year in the form of “ERM Withdrawal”.
Even if Scotland became a utopia with single-digit taxes, full employment, and a bloated social care system that’s fully funded by their own exports - What’s to stop another country just stepping in and saying “I’ll take that!” and annex the lot?
Would Scotland expect to be automatically enrolled in NATO, and get a task force appointed to rid them of any invaders come what may?
Membership of NATO costs. Costs a lot. Non-membership of NATO could leave Scotland as vulnerable as the Black Sea and Baltic states.
In the UK meanwhile, we argue about our government “wasting money on the wrong things”. Whoever is in power - “Money will still be wasted” - just on different things for different parties in office. That’s essentially what party politics is all about - how you spend the revenues.
A post-independence Scotland would be most like… Norway.
The remainder of the UK would then become most like… The Irish Republic.
What an Eire-ony! 
The Monarchy would have lost all credibility, The office of Prime Minister would be scrapped over the coming years, and replaced by a new upper house replacing the Lords. Then? - It’s just a case of the best placed, most corrupt officials to seek, gain, and then hold power - a bit like the Papacy of the Renaissance era. The alternative? Boot the top three out, and put Farage in charge.
Trouble is, there’s just too many that don’t like him at all - mainly the immigrants and inner city dwellers whom every prime minister has needed to get on board to win an election outright… Blair knew this. Cameron is in denial. Cleggy thinks he’s got the finger on the pulse, because he thinks those who are “Anti the Anti immigration party” are automatically “Pro Europeans” like him!
Winseer:
Scotland could have the greatest opportunity in History here to form the perfect Social (rather than “Socialist”) state.Alas, History has a knack of dropping the ball on the cusp of such opportunities.
The vote will most likely go 48/52 “against”, which is better than 48/52 “for” - even if you are one of those voting “Yes”.John Major won the 1992 election - because the electorate feared odds-on Labour more than they feared being stitched up by the Tories again - which duly happened later that same year in the form of “ERM Withdrawal”.
Even if Scotland became a utopia with single-digit taxes, full employment, and a bloated social care system that’s fully funded by their own exports - What’s to stop another country just stepping in and saying “I’ll take that!” and annex the lot?
Would Scotland expect to be automatically enrolled in NATO, and get a task force appointed to rid them of any invaders come what may?
Membership of NATO costs. Costs a lot. Non-membership of NATO could leave Scotland as vulnerable as the Black Sea and Baltic states.
In the UK meanwhile, we argue about our government “wasting money on the wrong things”. Whoever is in power - “Money will still be wasted” - just on different things for different parties in office. That’s essentially what party politics is all about - how you spend the revenues.
A post-independence Scotland would be most like… Norway.
The remainder of the UK would then become most like… The Irish Republic.
What an Eire-ony!The Monarchy would have lost all credibility, The office of Prime Minister would be scrapped over the coming years, and replaced by a new upper house replacing the Lords. Then? - It’s just a case of the best placed, most corrupt officials to seek, gain, and then hold power - a bit like the Papacy of the Renaissance era. The alternative? Boot the top three out, and put Farage in charge.
Trouble is, there’s just too many that don’t like him at all - mainly the immigrants and inner city dwellers whom every prime minister has needed to get on board to win an election outright… Blair knew this. Cameron is in denial. Cleggy thinks he’s got the finger on the pulse, because he thinks those who are “Anti the Anti immigration party” are automatically “Pro Europeans” like him!
Firstly Scotland is no more at risk of a Russian invasion than Switzerland or Sweden.While being a member of NATO is no guarantee that NATO’s major player,in the form of America,would actually be prepared to meet its obligations in terms of actually being prepared to accept the implications of using the nuclear deterrent if/when push ever comes to shove in that regard.Bearing in mind that mutually assured destruction is the ‘only’ real defence against such a massive military and geographic power.IE Russia can’t/won’t be defeated by invasion by NATO and regime change as in the case of Iraq.
As for the rest,the obvious advantages of an independent Scotland of 5 million people sitting on resources that could support at least 4 times that population if not more,make the choice between yes or no a no brainer.
While for us we stand a lot more chance of sorting out our own problems of an out of touch government running our country into the ground and sacrificing its democracy and national identity to federalism,both in terms of the UK and the EU.With Scotland having finally joined Ireland in seceding from that historic French invasion inspired stitch up.Which is and always has been the reality of the ‘UK’ ever since Harold was defeated by William the Conqueror and Wallace by Edward 1 as a result of the former.
i have read through most of this what i want concerns me is you know the glass bottles of irun brew the ones with 30p back on the empty bottle …
well how much will i lose on the exchange rate if they do go indipendant 
Carryfast:
Mike-C:
whatever is happening, it went from…“its a question for Scotland”…just a few short weeks ago, and in the last fortnight/ ten days all the English poloticians have stepped up a gear and done a lot of behind the scenes lobbying and going up to Scotland to actively lobby support for a NO campaign.That’s probably because they know that independence for Scotland means the end of the Union because what’s left of it would lose its credibility and validity.With at least the implication of the return of an independent seperate English nation which has been dismantled by an invading alien aristocracy over Centuries. To the point where now UK law doesn’t allow any official recognition of the nationality of English.
IE It’s likely to be the possibility of the rise of English nationalism,resulting from a possible Scottish yes vote,that is bothering them,not just what Scotland decides to do.
Why not go the whole hog back to the Dark Ages along with plague,pestilence, tribal wars.
From historyofengland.net/kings-a … troduction
“Alfred the Great of Saxon descent, from Wessex who ruled between 871-899, many historians consider the first king of all England but this was 450 years after the Romans left. Before this the country had been divided into 7 self ruled kingdoms, Kent, Sussex, Wessex, Essex, East Anglia, West Anglia or Mercia and Northumbria.”
Exactly who formed this independent separate English nation, was it Alfred the Saxon. The Saxons where, I believe earlier invaders from the area of Europe now known as Germany!!
What a load of ■■■■■■■■ 
