Scania Stoneridge tacho - faulty?

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

Never had a fault with a tacho although I have mainly had VDO.

On Saturday 21aug21 this is what I had
Start 0515 (card in)

[in my diary I log the ■■■■■■■■■■ driving time CDT with break times and then I’ve logged my working time too…just in case the office query anything].

1st break as I was on a bay unloading and wanted a clean slate for the next destination
1h50#0814-0917~1h03

2nd break
5h00#1421-1507~46
(taken a little early as I was going to have a distance that would not have been easy to take a break on)
about 1650 I get the msgs
“end of daily drive time”
“Time for daily rest”

took another break thinking I had not allowed 45 mins and also to check through as I don’t like this ‘countdown/descending’ style.
7h00#1712-1758~46
As I started to leave the layby I noticed the display stated 00h00 not 04h30. I selected the ‘ascending’ style for the rest of the day

Finished 2001
Total CDT = 8h32
Total working time = 14h46. (2nd 15 that week but not more. Other days were 12h45, 13h45, 11h31, 12h47)

Checked when I downloaded the card on Sunday (end of my working week) - got an infringement for exceeding daily drive time! I’ve defected the tacho.

Don’t like these Stoneridge tachos and just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience. Very strange for the first 3 days to be fine and then 4th day oddity. Sun was fine.

Just wondering if there is a way of changing the Stoneridge to VDO style. One can manually select on driving hours but I’d rather be able to go VDO style from the minute I put the card in.

2

It’s impossible to know what happened without all the information, including your tachograph histories.

If you can get a copy of the infringement I can take a look if you PM me it.

The fact that it was saying daily rest required may indicate for some reason your available driving was reduced because of that? It is impossible to really know.

Another might be the 90 hour two week driving rule. Your driving can be reduced to as low as 34 hours in a week if you max out the 56 in the week before.

3

Kind of you to offer. Since our driver trainer retired in June he has not been replaced.

This is what I had early morning. Not easy to get but simply trundled down the layby until the display changed.

IMG_20210829_062942.jpg

Next day it seemed to sort itself out as this is what I got as expected.

IMG_20210830_052830.jpg

A double press of the down arrow allows one to have a display closer to VDO which I prefer. But changes back to usual display after a couple of mins. Just been reading the Stoneridge manual that I’ve found on the internet and hoping that one can change to this it would seem in the DDs settings p28.

IMG_20210829_162825.jpg

BUT neither of those days were actually recorded as infringements? 25aug21 was an infringement… and NOT even working that day. AGH. As you may have guessed I don’t like Scania. I had only 2-3 infringements over 5 years driving Daf with VDO. This year on Scania with Stoneridge I’ve had more infringements than before.

4

a stone ridge will come up with end of daily drive time at 9 hours regardless of how many 10’s you’ve got left
Why not just do a print out if your unsure how much time you’ve driven :unamused:

5

blue estate:
a stone ridge will come up with end of daily drive time at 9 hours regardless of how many 10’s you’ve got left
Why not just do a print out if your unsure how much time you’ve driven :unamused:

He says:

Total CDT = 8h32
Total working time = 14h46.

So according to him his driving hours are less than 9, so still no apparent reason for the unit to alert anything.

@OP: have someone analyze your card. I may be new to tachos but unless there is a serious software fault I can’t see why the tacho would weird out like this. It is seeing something making it think you are out of hours.

6

jessejazza:
Kind of you to offer. Since our driver trainer retired in June he has not been replaced.

If you are asked to sign for any infringements, then there will probably be a line saying “These infringements have been explained to me” or similar.
If any infringements or offences are not explained, do not sign.

It is up to your transport manager to explain these things. He/she may delegate such to a driver trainer or whatever, but when push becomes shove the responsibility stops firmly with them.

You are responsible for your hours on a daily basis, but managers are responsible for seeing you don`t repeat mistakes, by explaining errors to you.

If your TM doesn`t explain where you went wrong, how can you avoid repeating any errors?

*NB. I know I am assuming that there is a genuine fault here rather than a faulty tacho.
From the info given I cant see anything wrong, but Id still expect that is me in the wrong rather than a faulty tacho.

7

Franglais:

jessejazza:
Kind of you to offer. Since our driver trainer retired in June he has not been replaced.

a] If you are asked to sign for any infringements, then there will probably be a line saying “These infringements have been explained to me” or similar.
If any infringements or offences are not explained, do not sign.

b] It is up to your transport manager to explain these things. He/she may delegate such to a driver trainer or whatever, but when push becomes shove the responsibility stops firmly with them.

c] You are responsible for your hours on a daily basis, but managers are responsible for seeing you don`t repeat mistakes, by explaining errors to you.

If your TM doesn`t explain where you went wrong, how can you avoid repeating any errors?

*NB. I know I am assuming that there is a genuine fault here rather than a faulty tacho.
From the info given I cant see anything wrong, but Id still expect that is me in the wrong rather than a faulty tacho.

Thank for your reply. I haven’t been able to sign or discuss anything at the office as I have been on long trips and not been near the yard. But would like to make the comments

a] Good reminder. I won’t but then again one has to be clear on why one is ‘signing’. Usually signing means one is ‘in agreement with’ which is the point you have made. But to write one’s own statement like I will do for the 25aug21 infringement - ‘not working’ and then signing against that. Refusing to sign raises other issues. Better to say ‘request explaination’.

b] If they know why otherwise it is just ‘sign’ and ‘let’s move on’.

c] Daily basis a driver is responsible for but weekly/fornightly totals are what they should be assessing when they give you work. But falls on the driver… because transport haven’t the time.

Going back to my original post. I think it is a display fault which can occur if one does not give 2 mins over. Most of the time I only do one min over… never had a problem with VDO. But on CPC they always say give an extra TWO mins but do not give a reason.

Now I remember I had a truck that did the same thing as pic 2 one morning… just the same. I switched to ‘VDO mode’ or like pic 3 and then found out the following day it was all fine. Downloaded a Stoneridge manual and on p28 it seems one can select DDS warnings to OFF (default is enable)… rather than the double down arrow which then reverts back to the usual. Been off work for a few days so I will have to check when i return.

8

Noremac:
It’s impossible to know what happened without all the information, including your tachograph histories.

If you can get a copy of the infringement I can take a look if you PM me it.

The fact that it was saying daily rest required may indicate for some reason your available driving was reduced because of that? It is impossible to really know.

Another might be the 90 hour two week driving rule. Your driving can be reduced to as low as 34 hours in a week if you max out the 56 in the week before.

Thank you for your offer i found that I couldn’t PM it as it was a pdf that would not attach. I have been able to convert it to a jpeg. It is not the 90 hour but how the week summary seems to be computed. The tacho week is Mon 00:01 to Sun 23:59 so WHY is the summary for the week given SUNDAY TO SATURDAY. Spoken to a couple of experienced drivers today who can’t explain that so I am hoping someone can! Do recommend the phone app TimeCalc (free no adds for calculating hours and minutes).

I’ve ended up with several infringements… linked as I call it. I work WED to SUN. Below you can see the front page and Wed 25aug21 I was not working. Thu; for I think the first time I made an error with the date on manual entry putting in Wed’s date. Which then explains how I worked 38h31. But the 1st infringement is for the 22aug21 as 11h04 driving BUT in the summary box it lists the correct 8h21… so how come the 11h04. Duty time of 12h50 is correct with my records.

22aug21.jpg
22aug21.jpg794×1123 75.2 KB

Second example seems curious to me as well. A weekly WTD infringment over max permitted hrs. It lists the Sun presumably as this is the day 5 of my work week. The other days were
WED 01SEP21 TO SUN 05SEP21

[■■■■■■■■■ driving time=cdt, ■■■■■■■■■ working time=cwt, break=bk (long breaks when i have been on bay)]
cdt cwt bk
Wed 7h28 14h00 2h45
Thu 8h03 12h46 1h38
Fri 7h12 11h47 0h47
Sat 8h54 13h00 1h39
Sun 7h22 12h15 2h21

38h51 63h48 9h10

Thus total working time is 63h48 - 9h10 =54h38
Times stated are from the tacho so cannot see how the 60h53 have been derived.

05sep21.jpg
05sep21.jpg794×1123 54.5 KB

9

jessejazza:

Noremac:
It’s impossible to know what happened without all the information, including your tachograph histories.

If you can get a copy of the infringement I can take a look if you PM me it.

The fact that it was saying daily rest required may indicate for some reason your available driving was reduced because of that? It is impossible to really know.

Another might be the 90 hour two week driving rule. Your driving can be reduced to as low as 34 hours in a week if you max out the 56 in the week before.

Thank you for your offer i found that I couldn’t PM it as it was a pdf that would not attach. I have been able to convert it to a jpeg. It is not the 90 hour but how the week summary seems to be computed. The tacho week is Mon 00:01 to Sun 23:59 so WHY is the summary for the week given SUNDAY TO SATURDAY. Spoken to a couple of experienced drivers today who can’t explain that so I am hoping someone can! Do recommend the phone app TimeCalc (free no adds for calculating hours and minutes).

I’ve ended up with several infringements… linked as I call it. I work WED to SUN. Below you can see the front page and Wed 25aug21 I was not working. Thu; for I think the first time I made an error with the date on manual entry putting in Wed’s date. Which then explains how I worked 38h31. But the 1st infringement is for the 22aug21 as 11h04 driving BUT in the summary box it lists the correct 8h21… so how come the 11h04. Duty time of 12h50 is correct with my records.
1

Second example seems curious to me as well. A weekly WTD infringment over max permitted hrs. It lists the Sun presumably as this is the day 5 of my work week. The other days were
WED 01SEP21 TO SUN 05SEP21

[■■■■■■■■■ driving time=cdt, ■■■■■■■■■ working time=cwt, break=bk (long breaks when i have been on bay)]
cdt cwt bk
Wed 7h28 14h00 2h45
Thu 8h03 12h46 1h38
Fri 7h12 11h47 0h47
Sat 8h54 13h00 1h39
Sun 7h22 12h15 2h21

38h51 63h48 9h10

Thus total working time is 63h48 - 9h10 =54h38
Times stated are from the tacho so cannot see how the 60h53 have been derived.
0

You need to post times for the 21st as I reckon you messed up the manual entry on the 22nd when you put your card in
Stone ridge usually say rest until now when you put your card in and you just press yes then change to other work when screen changes

10

Noremac:
It’s impossible to know what happened without all the information, including your tachograph histories.

If you can get a copy of the infringement I can take a look if you PM me it.

The fact that it was saying daily rest required may indicate for some reason your available driving was reduced because of that? It is impossible to really know.

Another might be the 90 hour two week driving rule. Your driving can be reduced to as low as 34 hours in a week if you max out the 56 in the week before.

jessejazza:
Thank you for your offer i found that I couldn’t PM it as it was a pdf that would not attach. I have been able to convert it to a jpeg. It is not the 90 hour but how the week summary seems to be computed. The tacho week is Mon 00:01 to Sun 23:59 so WHY is the summary for the week given SUNDAY TO SATURDAY. Spoken to a couple of experienced drivers today who can’t explain that so I am hoping someone can! Do recommend the phone app TimeCalc (free no adds for calculating hours and minutes).

I’ve ended up with several infringements… linked as I call it. I work WED to SUN. Below you can see the front page and Wed 25aug21 I was not working. Thu; for I think the first time I made an error with the date on manual entry putting in Wed’s date. Which then explains how I worked 38h31. But the 1st infringement is for the 22aug21 as 11h04 driving BUT in the summary box it lists the correct 8h21… so how come the 11h04. Duty time of 12h50 is correct with my records.

Second example seems curious to me as well. A weekly WTD infringment over max permitted hrs. It lists the Sun presumably as this is the day 5 of my work week. The other days were
WED 01SEP21 TO SUN 05SEP21

[■■■■■■■■■ driving time=cdt, ■■■■■■■■■ working time=cwt, break=bk (long breaks when i have been on bay)]
cdt cwt bk
Wed 7h28 14h00 2h45
Thu 8h03 12h46 1h38
Fri 7h12 11h47 0h47
Sat 8h54 13h00 1h39
Sun 7h22 12h15 2h21

38h51 63h48 9h10

Thus total working time is 63h48 - 9h10 =54h38
Times stated are from the tacho so cannot see how the 60h53 have been derived.

blue estate:
You need to post times for the 21st as I reckon you messed up the manual entry on the 22nd when you put your card in
Stone ridge usually say rest until now when you put your card in and you just press yes then change to other work when screen changes

Hope this helps. I wouldn’t have done a manual entry on either day but happy to admit an error if you can spot it. Only do a manual entry on the Wed morning ( as a tramper).

21aug21&22aug21.jpg
21aug21&22aug21.jpg1275×1750 242 KB

11

Regarding the first driving hours infringement, I think your shift lengths are okay, but it is perhaps the varying start times which have meant you have ended up with insufficient rest.

The first thing I would notice is that the infringement notice for the particular week in question was 3 pages. What was on the other pages? This may give extra clues as to how this driving hours infringement came about. If you infringe in one manner and then continue as if it didn’t happen, this can lead to other infringements.

In the absence of further information (including the hours for the previous week which I don’t have) it looks as if you have had insufficient rest between 21/8/21 and 22/8/21. I can see you finished at 1901 on 21/8/21 from your tachograph printout. You started at 0416 that day, so you got 9h 15m rest within 24 hours. This is okay if you have sufficient reduced rests remaining, but not otherwise.

Despite what you say, it looks like you must have used up your reduced daily rests, so you needed 11 hours rest. Perhaps your shift on 21/8/21 should have ended at the latest 13 hours after 0416, which would be 1716.

I notice in your original post you said your other days were “12h45, 13h45, 11h31, 12h47”. This is all well and good, but if you do a 12h45 shift and then bring your start time forward by 30 minutes the next day, you haven’t had 11 hours rest by 24 hours since you last started a shift. To explain with an example, you start at 0500 (say) and work through to 1745 (12h45m total shift). You then decide to come in at 0430 the next day instead of 0500. You are only getting 10h45m rest in that case (a reduced rest).

The effect of this insufficient rest seems to be that starting driving again means the driving tally from the day before just continues.

It is a bit of a grey area to me when one can start driving again after having an insufficient daily rest. Possibly a weekly rest has to be inserted, but I haven’t actually read anything concrete on that.

I think you made a mistake with the manual entry on 25/8/21, but this shouldn’t have a bearing on the previous infringement (as you have alluded to).

Regarding the working time infringement, you seem to talk about “your working week”. It is the fixed week Mon to Sun that matters. Any work done on Monday, for example, would be included. Obviously I don’t know if you did or not, but it is the only explanation I can fathom from what you have provided.

12

Noremac:
Regarding the first driving hours infringement, I think your shift lengths are okay, but it is perhaps the varying start times which have meant you have ended up with insufficient rest.
…

You are absolutely correct and thanks for your time and advice. I didn’t respond further as I have been off sick with a vitamin deficiency. Very unpleasant experience and partly due to my errors… I got so extremely tired. I dislike the Stoneridge countdown mode BUT there is a way of selecting a VDO countup mode in the Settings… Whilst off sick I downloaded the manual and spoke to a specialist who could help. But couldn’t resolve my 00h00 after a break… I’d had that several times.

I’ve done a separate post just in case anyone else wants to set VDO style on a Stoneridge.