The Rover was a nice car, but still didnt have the refinements fitted by forign cars. Maybe, if the workers hadnt spent as much time walking out over stupid things, and had valued the industry they were in, they would have been able to come up with good cars into the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s. instead of being on the dole.
No it’s just that if everyone did’nt always believe everything that they’re told and knew the difference between zb cars and good ones and if wage rates were high enough for us to buy our own products instead of importing cheap zb then those workers guvnors could have sold enough cars to keep those workers in a job and pay them enough to buy their own products instead of driving home from work in a Datsun.
Datsuns were a budget car unlike Jags so the two are not comparable. Not sure about BMWs as I don’t think there were that many in the UK in that period. There were some nice Mercedes sports cars around then which I would have liked.
The Rover was a nice car, but still didnt have the refinements fitted by forign cars. Maybe, if the workers hadnt spent as much time walking out over stupid things, and had valued the industry they were in, they would have been able to come up with good cars into the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s. instead of being on the dole.
No it’s just that if everyone did’nt always believe everything that they’re told and knew the difference between zb cars and good ones and if wage rates were high enough for us to buy our own products instead of importing cheap zb then those workers guvnors could have sold enough cars to keep those workers in a job and pay them enough to buy their own products instead of driving home from work in a Datsun.
If wage rates were high enough to buy our own products, our products would have cost rather more than they did.
You seem to have the notion that wages can rise without having an effect elsewhere. Economics isn’t your forte I take it?
Wheel Nut:
Driving for a bloke in the car trade, I picked up a bit of the parlance. The Dolomite was known as Dollop of zb. The Triumph Snag was just that and the SD1 was an expensive joke. But as normal Carryfast always flies the flag for the lame duckling or the black sheep
Jaguar were part of a chequered history and survived only because the UK competition was crap, BMW built one of the best British cars in Oxford, the Rover 75, until that went to China, the Jaguar went to India and Longbridge is a St Modwen business park
Jaguar is still at Castle Bromwich and there is still something at Jaguar in Browns Lane Coventry. Triumph is a Sainsburys and another shopping centre, Peugeot Ryton is a bomb site.
Jaguar is still at Whitley, Halewood, Gaydon, Browns Lane but the company is owned and run by TATA in India
But a British Leyland built V12 E Type is worth as much as,or more than,a brand new XKR or similar BMW and that’s before you’ve bothered to put a bigger 6.0-7.0 Litre engine in it.
Yeah because they are as rare as rocking horse dung because most of them are just iron oxide now.
Unfortunately the Rover 75 never reached its full potential before the crooks had busted Rover. Amongst the rare classics will be the Ford Mustang engined V8 Rover 75.
I have never driven a TWR XJ12 to my knowledge but enjoyed my time in an MG XT and my own BMW oil burning Rover 75
Unions, where were we? oh yes, ruining profitable companies
But the Mustang engined ZT and 75 was only turned into a better car by the re engineering which British engineers did to it by converting it to rear drive and fitting a yank V8 just like it should have been in the beginning (but still not powerful enough without a supercharger) to even get close to my old Jag .But as that re engineering of the 75 showed it’s not British workers and unions who wreck good companies.
The Rover was a nice car, but still didnt have the refinements fitted by forign cars. Maybe, if the workers hadnt spent as much time walking out over stupid things, and had valued the industry they were in, they would have been able to come up with good cars into the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s. instead of being on the dole.
No it’s just that if everyone did’nt always believe everything that they’re told and knew the difference between zb cars and good ones and if wage rates were high enough for us to buy our own products instead of importing cheap zb then those workers guvnors could have sold enough cars to keep those workers in a job and pay them enough to buy their own products instead of driving home from work in a Datsun.
If wage rates were high enough to buy our own products, our products would have cost rather more than they did.
You seem to have the notion that wages can rise without having an effect elsewhere. Economics isn’t your forte I take it?
I’m no economist but the so called experts seem to have made a good job of zb’ing up the British economy over the years without my help.But even a trained monkey can see from the British example that inflation is price led not wage led and if workers could buy things for nothing then they could work for nothing.
The Rover was a nice car, but still didnt have the refinements fitted by forign cars. Maybe, if the workers hadnt spent as much time walking out over stupid things, and had valued the industry they were in, they would have been able to come up with good cars into the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s. instead of being on the dole.
No it’s just that if everyone did’nt always believe everything that they’re told and knew the difference between zb cars and good ones and if wage rates were high enough for us to buy our own products instead of importing cheap zb then those workers guvnors could have sold enough cars to keep those workers in a job and pay them enough to buy their own products instead of driving home from work in a Datsun.
If wage rates were high enough to buy our own products, our products would have cost rather more than they did.
You seem to have the notion that wages can rise without having an effect elsewhere. Economics isn’t your forte I take it?
I’m no economist but the so called experts seem to have made a good job of zb’ing up the British economy over the years without my help.But even a trained monkey can see from the British example that inflation is price led not wage led and if workers could buy things for nothing then they could work for nothing.
My trained monkey wants to know why you think workers would work for nothing under any circumstances? Have you taken your pills today?
The Rover was a nice car, but still didnt have the refinements fitted by forign cars. Maybe, if the workers hadnt spent as much time walking out over stupid things, and had valued the industry they were in, they would have been able to come up with good cars into the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s. instead of being on the dole.
No it’s just that if everyone did’nt always believe everything that they’re told and knew the difference between zb cars and good ones and if wage rates were high enough for us to buy our own products instead of importing cheap zb then those workers guvnors could have sold enough cars to keep those workers in a job and pay them enough to buy their own products instead of driving home from work in a Datsun.
If wage rates were high enough to buy our own products, our products would have cost rather more than they did.
You seem to have the notion that wages can rise without having an effect elsewhere. Economics isn’t your forte I take it?
I’m no economist but the so called experts seem to have made a good job of zb’ing up the British economy over the years without my help.But even a trained monkey can see from the British example that inflation is price led not wage led and if workers could buy things for nothing then they could work for nothing.
My trained monkey wants to know why you think workers would work for nothing under any circumstances? Have you taken your pills today?
It was meant in the context of a comparison to show that everything is relative it was’nt meant literally In general wage claims follow price increases not the other way round.Therefore if prices stay low and stable relative to wages then the economy will work.If you want higher prices relative to incomes then it won’t.Simples.Just think the American car industry through the late 1950’s and the 1960’s.Which is why they had more American workers building more American cars for sale in the home market and therefore a stronger economy than they have now.
Regardless of how it was meant, it is total bollox. Inflation is something that is driven by demand and supply. When it comes to brit built cars, they went from being affordable to expensive because inflation was driven up by additional expense. The expense was largely workforce demands. You say you are, or were a driver, but you are proletariat to the core.
hells bells, even the Peugeot workers were constantly walking out over one pathetic little spat or another. It is small wonder that the UK has no industry, same as the US has very little of their own now. Christ, a couple of years ago a huge vehicle manufacturer said they were in financial trouble and needed to cut jobs.
What did the workforce do?
Went on ■■■■■■■ strike in protest. Instead of thinking about the jobs they had, they walked out. So you can take your unions and poke them up your arse. They are dangerous and do not give a flying ■■■■ about anything but their subs and dues.
Carryfast:
and (what should have been affordable decent V8 powered Triumph saloons and convertibles like the Stag),
Is that the same Triumph Stag the used to suffer over heating problems?
The Dolomite Sprint did’nt suffer from many overheating problems and that’s the engine which should have been developed into the Triumph V8 not the lash up which the bean counters forced on it’s designers.
Carryfast,you really are losing it this time,the Dolly Sprint suffered terribly from over heating,my dad had one from new,I had a 4 year old one as did a mate at the time,all had problems,not helped by the alloy head on the iron block.Admittedly us young lads would thrash the arse off ours,but my old mans was treated with kid gloves and still blew up.RYB738M,was my toy if my memory serves me,traded in for my first Mexico,DDF108L.
We can all be anoraks when we want
None of the cars i have ever owned / driven were British …
1st car was a 900cc Mk1 Fiesta … GFM 723X was its reg… was a great little car, could take corners on 2 wheels
next it was onto one of my dad’s Lada’s M234 OVP . a 1.5L, which i modified the stock carb on to be a twin choke… (they put a twin choke weber on as standard but disconnected the 2nd throttle plate)
Then another Lada… P958 NOM … The last NEW Lada Riva sold in the UK. Also a 1.5L but i left the carb alone this time.
Then I had a Tata Loadbeta . R28 UOA. This was great as it was built on a solid chassis, and was made from merc bodywork.
Next I had a Fiat Doblo Cargo, after the Tata was written off by a bus, while i was parked up on site in a layby.
The fiat was a 1.9TD, and was a really nice drive. Reg WN02 OJX. When I gave up my service engineer business, I sold the Fiat.
I then bought a Renault Laguna… S345 NTY. This lasted me the 2 or so years I was driving as a truck driver in the UK before i came over here…
None of the above mentioned vehicles suffered from any rust. And were put through their paces.
And yes im a bit of an anorak knowing all the vehicle reg #'s i had back in the UK… I have no idea what my reg is over here for my current car though
No,I couldn’t tell you any of mine either,strange eh? Here’s a reg off one of my old Escorts that Carryfast should recognize,■■■504R,hence my reason to challenge him with his “all conquering” Audi 6x6 high torque mid lift chubby quattros are boring delusions.
Scabs? No.let’s talk rallycars
flat to the mat:
No,I couldn’t tell you any of mine either,strange eh? Here’s a reg off one of my old Escorts that Carryfast should recognize,■■■504R,hence my reason to challenge him with his “all conquering” Audi 6x6 high torque mid lift chubby quattros are boring delusions.
Scabs? No.let’s talk rallycars
■■■, was that not a full works RS1800 BDA? Ari Vatenen’s old daily drive if memory serves me correct Told you I like fast Fords
More so Mr Mikkola,but the euro mp did use and abuse her on the odd occasion,go to the top of the class Mark. Only talking to a mate back in England over the weekend and realised how long ago we were wasting all our money on toys,scary,Hindsight is a wonderful thing
muckles:
Jags of the 70’s and 80’s were rust traps and build quality and development was nowhere near the German marques. I used to work on Classic cars mainly Jags and owned a couple of 1980’s Jags and knew people who owned BMW’s and Mercs of similar era’s.
So how do you explain the performance,refinement and survival rates of the old E3 versus the XJ.
My experience of working on and owning XJ’s is that they were rust traps, unlike my brothers 735 BMW which was older than my Jag, but had no sign of rot and if you compare the 6 cylinder cars then perfrmance didn’t seem much different.
The replacement to the XJ Series 3 the XJ40 was an even worse rust trap as well as a load of other faults duw to lack of R&D.
However at the time the Series 1’s had started to reach classic status and people were spending money on restoration, like they did with MK2 Jags and E Types.
The bloke I worked with did full restoration jobs on them it would take somewhere between 6 months to a years depending on how quick the cutomer could pay. The cost was more than the car was worth, but they knew they had a car that was probably better built than when it ame out of the factory.
Cars achieving classic status has nothing to do with thier build quality, but normally something far more intangible. I can assure that had not the E Types been such an iconic design, then most now would be nothing more than dust and the fact you think it would be worth more if you put a non standard engine really really shows you don’t understand values of classic cars.
You can’t compare the prices of an E type with a modern XKR or BMW, it’s a completly different market. And they are completly different cars, If I bought a modern sportcars and it handled, braked and performed and let in water when it rained like an E type I’d want a refund, but as a classic car I’d live with them faults for the sheer bombardment of the senses you get driving one on a country road on a summers day. But for everyday motorway, town, poor weather driving I’d take the modern car.
BigJon:
I have no idea what my reg is over here for my current car though
I have that trouble too. I thought it was an age thing. You must be catching me up son.
I recognize most of those reg numbers when I see them, but if you asked me prior to seeing them I couldn’t have told you.
It shows the memories are there, it is accessing them that is difficult.
[quote="Carryfast"I’m no economist but the so called experts seem to have made a good job of zb’ing up the British economy over the years without my help.But even a trained monkey can see from the British example that inflation is price led not wage led[/quote]
We weren’t discussing inflation, we were discussing the price of goods, specifically cars.
The price is set by taking the costs of production marketing and distribution and adding an amount for profit. Increase costs (by paying more labour costs) and either the price needs to rise or you eat into the profit. No profit eventually means no jobs, so the choice is have a job and drive something or have no job and nothing to drive.
bobthedog:
Regardless of how it was meant, it is total bollox. Inflation is something that is driven by demand and supply. When it comes to brit built cars, they went from being affordable to expensive because inflation was driven up by additional expense. The expense was largely workforce demands. You say you are, or were a driver, but you are proletariat to the core.
hells bells, even the Peugeot workers were constantly walking out over one pathetic little spat or another. It is small wonder that the UK has no industry, same as the US has very little of their own now. Christ, a couple of years ago a huge vehicle manufacturer said they were in financial trouble and needed to cut jobs.
What did the workforce do?
Went on [zb] strike in protest. Instead of thinking about the jobs they had, they walked out. So you can take your unions and poke them up your arse. They are dangerous and do not give a flying [zb] about anything but their subs and dues.
Yaaaaaa! Rob is on a roll. Go for it Rob, you tell 'im. +1
BigJon:
None of the cars i have ever owned / driven were British …
1st car was a 900cc Mk1 Fiesta … GFM 723X was its reg… was a great little car, could take corners on 2 wheels
Wasn’t the Fester British?
You say it could corner on 2 wheels, I take this would be just on right hand corners due to the ballast sitting behind the wheel?
going back to the dolomite sprint… i had one in the 80,s when all my mates were buying xr3/xr2 golf/pug Gti,s ect, the dolly used to blow them away… it was great fun and the only prob I had was the clutch pedal used to pop out for some reason or other…
the one thing with leyland/rover at longbridge was how much stuff was coming out the place which should,nt have been, i,m sure some folk actually built cars at home with the amount of parts going missing…