Also in Netherlands, here a fine tanker :
Here a Belgium OM. cheers 
Eric,
Evening all,
Understanding Fiat, and its Marketing policies is like trying to navigate the Hampton Court Maze, on a dark and fog filled night, wearing a blindfold…but thinking about it, so is trying to understand most vehicle manufacturers marketing policies and strategies! So all I can do is unload some of the statistics within my head relating to the various companies, and relevant models. This will by no means be exhaustive as I do not wish to bore any of you, and within the most complex group that resulted there rests more dry as dust statistics than any sane person can imagine.!
One can trace the direct lineage of OM, (Officine Mecaniche), and its Brescia operation back into the 1800s. Cars featured heavily, but for us lorry men the foundation s were laid when Fiat acquired OM in 1937. Then a manufacturer of lorries, buses, agricultural tractors, and railway waggons, and internal combustion powered locomotives.
1967, and the lorry range became integrated into the Fiat commercial vehicle range, but the OM models were identified by numeric means relating to their gvw, or gtw.eg 260 = 26 tonnes gross vehicle weight.
Unic came into Fiat ownership in 1966, a most interesting company whose technical expertise was without doubt, and whose previous “affairs” had included Saurer from Suisse, and Willeme in France. Unic were destined to become the major inline engine manufacturer for the Fiat Group, with the 13.798 litre in line 6 cylinder. But their V8, and more importantly the Team headed by Van Damme behind this engine were to create Fiats much loved 17.174 litre stonking V8. However the early Unic V8 had not proved reliable, but revision, and a capacity increase to 14.886 litres and 340 hp, (SAE), with a torque output of 115m.kg was more acceptable in the market. On top of this Unic had given the basic cab shell pressed by Fiat to Fernand Geneve, who had strengthened the floor pan, and having integrated this into the structure then produced a hydraulic tilting version. This was not adopted by Fiat for their “protected” home market, as explained by Tiptop. After all, Fiat by1970 were well into the redesign of the 600 serie, (619 et al), which was to become the 190, (26/35 etc) of the late 70s.
But what of the OM 340 Vs, and their 260 hp brothers, what were they?
Fiat/OM/Unic model range was quite extensive, covering over 100 individual models, from a base of 30 specifications. Many were actual duplications of each other, or specific models for individual markets. Others simply did not exist on paper, but were noted against the original manufacturers production listing, but noted as an export vehicle, and sold in that export market under another Group “brand”. Confusing is it not?
If I throw a few examples from the `70s, (after the 600 serie 12.88 litre 208 hp models).
OM/Fiat model 180( 6x2 & 8x2) engine model 8210 13.798 litre @ 225hp gvw 38/40 tonnes 1974-1977
OM/Fiat/Unic 180F26 engine model 8210 13.798 litre @260 hp gvw 18/22/44 tonnes 1977-1981
OM/Fiat F33/35 17.174 litre@330/352 hp 44 tonnes 1978-1981 (Italian Market Tractor unit)
OM/Fiat 220F35 4x2 6x2 17.174 litre @330/352 hp 44 tonnes 1978-1981
OM/Fiat/Unic 260. 4x2, 6x4 14.886 litre@240 hp (France), 307 hp Italy, Benelux, Germany 1971-1976 Rigid chassis public works application.
OM/Unic 340 4x2, (6x2 approved converter) 14.886 litre @340hp(sae) ( France, Benelux, Germany, Argentina) 1974-1977
Same basic box of bits, just slightly different specifications for different markets. The name on the front really depended upon the Dealer Franchisee strength in the relevant market.
Simple terms, if it was 14.886 litres, then whatever it said on the front it was a Unic…if it was 17.174 litres, then it was a Fiat, whatever it said on the front…bit if it was a 13.798 litre one…well it could be a Fiat, or a Unic…but if the cab tilted it was a Unic…but hang on a mo…some of them did not!!!
And as Tiptop so rightly says, in Germany Fiat/OM gained market share on the back of ex Krupp, Henschel, and Bussing Dealers, but in France Fiat lost market share when they stopped the Unic heavies, even though the French 6 cylinder engine became the standard offering…
Confusing, but interesting, with many elusive models…that 260 6x4 eventually gained the 350 hp V8, some power for a 6x4 tipper chassis…oh, but of course RVI produced a TR305 300 hp tipper, and then a 352 hp V8 version as well, with a neat day cab KB2400…a good seller in Italy!!!
I need a Bollinger…
Cheerio for now.
Couple of background bits, that really I should have prefaced my last post with…and as Ive poured my Bollinger, (and it really must not become warm)…so I will be quick…
Why did Fiat acquire Unic…well it was a family matter Henri Pigozzi, the head of Simca was supported financially by the Fiat owning Agnelli family, and he acquired Unic…
Why did Fiat close the production facility at Trappes, ending the building of “true” French Unics…well it was a slight, that was felt by the Agnelli family deeply. There was a Military contract, (and French Military already operated the Simca-Marmon SUMB 4x4 lorries), but the Generals thought that strategically as the Unic engines were Italan Fiat produced, that was not good…so Unic lost the contract, …France lost a lorry builder…
Amazing how major decisions can have little to do with the quality of the product!
The first Van Damme V8, was 12 litres 62M@225 “exploding” horsepower…the 340 hp V8 came along in 1970, the T340 , and was marketed as both a Unic, and a a OM.
Got to go…
Cheerio for now…Sante…
I think these have been mentioned on here before,but found this article that i thought might intrest some
of you.Click on pages for better focus.If you click on a page twice it magnifies it for reading.
Thanks Deanb. Maybe Saviem can give light on what happened to the company 
Johnny
This is about 1960. The driver on the left is my father. At this time some of the trailers had to go accross to France un-accompanied, usually empty, and bring fruit back. Dinoir was the firm Johnny Wyatt used. Albert Moore ( who founded MRCT) was the TM, and later my father became his assistant, later to take his place. Jim.
jsutherland:
Thanks Deanb. Maybe Saviem can give light on what happened to the company
Evening all,
Johnny, somewhere on these threads I have posted quite a bit about my old dearly departed friend Antoine Loheac, and the incredible creations of his genius! His very last “Ton Tons” were based on the G serie Renaults, and the company exists today as Groupe Gail. Somewhere I wrote a brief history, as well as an update on Loheac, “France`s second lorry builder”, as Francoise Zanotti, the President of Renault Vehicules Industriels once christened him.
Should not be too hard to find via the search facility…good luck…any questions, please ask.
jmc jnr, I can remember the Fridge Freight AEC drawbars, and those enormous van bodies coming up out of Italy in the early 60s. Some had equally large drawbar trailers.........and despite their bulk, and weight, were a lot quicker than my Gardner Foden up Cenis, and Cerdun! Didnt they clear at Le Touquet when we all had to, early `60s. Bright green and yellow, you could not miss them at all, grief the angle some of those 8 wheelers used to lean over at on the corners, no Tea Clipper could ever do that and not sink!!!
Was it produce that they used to haul back from Italy? I presume, hanging meat outwards? Lovely lorries, didn’t they have Scania 76s later on?
Cheerio for now.
Hello Saviem. The fleet progressed from Mk 3 Aec, to Mk5, then the ergo tilt cab, starting in 1966. The LB76’s (3 off) started about 1968, one second hand (ex Asian Transport ridgid) and 2 3 axle artics that were quite quickly stretched to pull draw-bars. The F88 Volvos were all artics and the Scania 110s were second hand, with the exception of one , bought brand new as a 6 wheeler ridgid.
All the boxes were the work of Norwich Coachworks and were extremely heavy, but very efficient, especially carrying hanging beef. A lot of the fridges were built in house under the supervision of engineers from Pitkin and Ruddock from Lowestoft using Lister diesel engines, the rest were Thermo-King petrols.
A huge part of our work was beef for the American forces in Germany and Italy returning with peaches or whatever fruit was in season in Italy or France.
We regularly ran Lambs from Lockerbie or Galashiels to Les Halles, for Guy Eschalier clearing at Montsoult, or Rungis and returning with fruit for Ridley of London.
A regular run was Lowestoft or Yarmouth Birds Eye to SPD, Springfield Rd. Belfast or Lurgan and then crossing the border to Dublin, Leixslip, Kildare or Longford for the hanging beef. Frequently the loads of fruit back were for Ridley in Dublin market. Obviously there were other customers - Allessio Carni in Vercelli, etc.
I was an occasional trailer boy for them fom 1964 and worked full time for them from 1971 to 1973. My father was with them from 1959 to 1974.
They closed in 1974. Bill Robins (Lb76) was a driver there and used to be a contributor here on Trucknet. I hope he is well. Jim.
Another of father somewhere in France. Jim.
Lorry and trailers, wagon and drags, call them what you will…
Last one for today, for SAVIEM…John, remember the tanker you followed for miles in your Foden, staring at the back of the tank ? well this might have been the other view of it if you’d managed to pass it…
Not a French truck but I bet this will takes a few of you back a bit, before I gained a class one by a couple of years but remember my training with the RTITB, Buzzer.
Interested in the registration - obviously H reg 69/70. My uncle had an Austin 7, EJJ *** and we had a car SJJ 131.
I always assumed that this was Preston, but maybe not?
John.
Pre 1974, JJ would have been Greater London John. Post 1974 , JJ would have been Maidstone.
Cheers. Eddie.
Evening all,
Fair cheered me up do those pictures! My old Horse really a`int too good, and Im spending as much time with him as I can, and those posts take my mind off his troubles for a little bit…Thank you all!
Fergies Renault pictures, and in particular that " Herault" registered Faineant, (lazybones, on account of its modest powered underfloor engine), is a really rare one for a “pinadier” drawbar wine tanker. It looks like a 4140, from the early 1950s, and would have had the Renault column gearchange, later used by Saviem.
The PS30 Saviem, of Transports Marmeth was one of the last ones sold. It has the Renault logo as opposed to Saviem, and was contemporary with the PX28/30/40 range of Saviem badged TR Berliets. Think that I wrote something about Marmeth a bit earlier on this thread. Nice outfit, ran some really exotic trailers, and chemical tanks.
Back with Fergies Tankers, that shot of a Bernard CA 6 LW, (Gardner LW powered), 26 tonne 6 wheeler with the twin compartment wine tank, looks like one of Lucien Jeunes fleet. That picture must be late 40s early 50s. The cab is unusual, I thought that it could have been one of the rare Alquier ones, but the windscreens do not really fit Alquier types. Any idea whose coachwork it is? Really stable lorries for tanker work those big Bernards, the axles ran through the frame, to keep the ride hight down, and she would have run on 1200s. Those big tyres were always, on Bernards, as twin spare wheels, one each side at 45 degrees behind the rear “dead” axle.
Then in the pictures of drawbars I see one of Gylbert Depaeuw`s first 15 metre deck space drawbar TRs, (a 310). Lovely family, and a company that started in Northern France early post WW2, running out of Dunkerque. Gylbert closed shop in the 50s, because of the long hours, and opened a Café in Lille! But he was back in transport around the mid 60s, and really never looked back!
His traffic majored around the transport of petrol tanks to be buried in the ground at new service stations, from Soc Robine at Saint-Armand, as well as Cigarettes from Lilles Seita. This was to become Depaeuws main work, (and when it closed in the early 80s caused a major restructure of Depaeuws operations. Depaeuw had run a very "eclectic" fleet, 130 NC drawbar Fiats, as well as the tractor version with the reliable, but low powered OM CP3 engine, of 160, short legged horses! These pulled articulated 12 metre single axle trailers, fitted with a single axle dolly to make a drawbar!! ........Not easy to use in an urban environment! Gylberts eldest son Patrice joined the firm in the late 70s and his mount was a Chinese six, Mercedes LPS 2032 V10 320 hp tractor. A configuration that I did not see as odd ball coming from the UK , but our Dealer Dubreu, thought it a very odd lorry indeed!
As well as the base at Lompret, a branch was operated in Rouen run by Patrices sister Dorothee. During the 70s the fleet was of modest size, (around the mid 20s I recall), and the company was very similar in its mode of operation to family run haulage operations in the UK. The bulk of the fleet was either Unic, the Izoard @200hp, or OM, with the odd Saviem lightweight. The big Renaults really came in the early 80s, after the forced restructure due to the closure of Seita. Depaeuw began working for Chep Europe, on pallet distribution, so along came day cab TRs fitted with “Duplex” cab top sleepers, as were their Fiat 190 32s. Coupled to 13.4 metre tri axles they were legal inside the French 15.5 metre overall length regulations.
That R310 15 metre deck drawbar would have been coupled to a three axle 17.5 in wheeled low hight drawbar, and the same trailers were pulled by their 340 TRs. There were also 9.5. litre powered R cab duplex tractors, @328hp, designated R330 19 T, as well as a 6x4 single tyred bogie R340 .22.T LSW. (light single wheel), which if I remember correctly was used to run to the UK. Quite a mix, and a MAN “Unterflur” drawbar as well.
Fergies picture shows the later livery,( still blue and white), but based around Berliet Le Centaure livery. The even later Magnum`s had another variation in two shades of metallic blue. The fleet now must be over 150, and mainly Renault, and they get about a bit…last time I was in Norway, there was one of their Magnums!
Buzzer, (John), that Viewline takes me back. I had an ex RTITB one for years, WAN 183 G, Rolls 220, ZF 6 speed, Kirkstall rear axle. Little small steering wheel, lightning fast gear change, and a ride like a Pogo Stick…brother, a big bump, and that big old screen used to shake just like a jelly…did my nerves no good at all. I had Tony Summerfield at Supreme bodies build me a super replica Pickfords ballast box body, and had loads of fun with her, then I sold her to the Roberts Bros down at Ross on Wye, and had a really nice little 190 Mercedes Diesel in part exchange…that did not bounce around at all…and hardly used any diesel at all!!!
Back to the stable to check on my lad.
Cheerio for now.
it was still dark blue when I left
